Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?

redivider

Well-Known Member
I am avoiding the truth? ROFLMAO!!! The point of the post is about the Democrats avoiding the truth.

The Dem's just got spanked... They lost over 60 seats in the house and congress.

Obama wants to tell you it is because of the economy stupid...

Yet Harry Reid is trying to get the Dream act passed while ignoring tax cuts for all Americans.

There has never been a time where tax increases created jobs.

Since the election Obama has been flying around the world getting snubbed by one world leader after another while getting chastized about the fed's monetary policy.

Meanwhile, unemployment continues to bobble around 10% and the Dem's bright idea is to extend unemployment benefits. - HOW MUCH IS THAT GONNA COST? It doesnt really matter because immediately after passing paygo legislation the Dem's ignored it and continued to overspend with no accountibility on how to pay for it...

Now, the Republicans havent been angels either, I admit that. Bush fucked the pooch on Iraq and TARP among other things. However, putting bad policy on Viagra has not been helping out Obama much has it?
you didn't address my point. let's make everybody, even babies, take out a 2000 dollar loan so the rich can keep a tax cut that by design was supposed to expire......
that's really looking out for the well being of a country's finances...

and dems aren't ignoring tax cuts for middle class america, they're just ignoring tax cuts for the rich. stop lying.

what you are defending could be the most fiscally irresponsible thing in congress' history....
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
And you want to make that problem worse by giving more money to billionaires?

Don't ask for tax cuts that are paid for out of deficit spending and then complain about the deficit. It makes your viewpoint seem inconsistent and poorly thought out.
I want the government to cut spending AND cut taxes... You talk like there are no other options but your either or.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I just dont get it...

The American people are facing the largest tax increase in history and Harry Reid is running around trying to get some amnesty bill passed for illegal immigrants.

Now, I can understand that the lame duck democrats simply dont care... They are on the way out and have nothing to lose.

However... Because of the Democrats procrastination everyone receiving a weekly or bi-montly paycheck of significant size is going to see tens if not hundreds more dollars taken out of their checks in early January. This will be a HUGE psychological shock to the workers out there. It will make the tax increases real...

This only leaves an opening for the Republicans to come in after January and pass retroactive tax cuts. It will make them look good and if the Democrats try to block it they will look like the obstructionists.

I cannot figure out the reason the Democrats would allow themselves to get into this position.

At the rate they are going Palin could win in a landslide in 2012.
First off, I suppose you and all of your friends make $250k and more per person, since that is the threshold put out by the Obama administration. I keep hearing Republicans of all financial spectrums acting as if the world was coming to an end. Let's go back in history 10 years ago, when the Republicans had the majority in Congress. They employed the exact same strategy that they chided the Democrats for even considering, and that was to vote on a bill under budgetary procedure, meaning the Democrats could not debate the bill, only a simple majority was needed to pass it. Since it was passed under a budgetary session, the law could only take effect for 10 years. The Republicans reasoned that if you give the rich a tax break, they would create more jobs.... The same rich people who had off shore bank accounts that they forgot to declare, or the ones running pyramid schemes, or exercising their new financial might in insider trading...

Let us fast forward to today.... The tax break is fixing to expire. It was only going to last 10 years, everyone knew that back when it was passed. Today, the Republicans are spinning the expiration of their hastily voted on bill as a tax increase, when in reality, it is simply an expiration of their tax holiday. The tax break of ten years has cost the U.S. Government 800 billion dollars of revenue over the last ten years, at a time when Bush was running up a historic national debt by waging two wars. President Bush, a fiscal conservative (chuckle), ran up more national debts than all previous presidents combined, even Ronald Reagan, another Republican, who had held that record previously. You do realize that more than two thirds of our unpaid debt was charged up under Ronald Reagan and George Bush don't you?

Why is it that everytime a Republican president leaves office with a huge spending history, the Republicans suddenly want to get conservative? After spending untold billions to fund two wars abroad and the black ops associated with the FBI and the CIA, exporting torture and kidnapping in the name of Democracy, now is the time to save, even though both wars are ongoing and we are no safer here at home. Now because a black democrat is in office, we are suddenly supposed to stop spending altogether? How convenient for the "conservative" party. The only time they are conservative, is when their opponent is in the whitehouse.

And you have the audacity to call roughly half of this country's citizens clueless and stupid? That is a rather childish and uneducated statement. Funny how short the memory is of our elephant friends.... they recall only what suits them....

And now they want to further obstruct Obama's presidency and sit on a nuclear treaty? They are playing with fire and our international relationships. The "conservative" neo-cons want more than 80 billion to upgrade our nuclear weapons. The want to spend another 80 billion per year by extending the tax break to all, and yet they obstruct bills providing extended unemployment benefits or tax cuts for hiring small businesses.... Who do the Republicans really represent? Large corporations and the rich and influential, that is who.

The pathetic party is the Republicans..... you know, the ones that campaigned on the economy, and as soon as they won, began to focus on how to ensure only one term for Obama and how to repeal the health care bill or craft legislation that diverts funds from it. Meanwhile, voters watch, fresh from the polls, as they realize that once again, the republican party was full of shit and has deceived them, yet again.... Jobs and the economy are the last things on their mind. They only see 2012 and ways to embarass our President.

And if you think Sarah Palin could win in a landslide, I have to question your intellect and wisdom....
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
And can you prove that tax decreases increase jobs? We are coming off of ten years of historically low income tax brackets, where are the jobs? Why are we in a recession? Again? Twice in Bush years?

Sorry, but the rich ain't hiring and creating new jobs. Small business owners are creating more jobs than the rich.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
If they dont prevent any of the tax increases people making as little as 30K will see significant deductions from their paychecks.
Bull SHIT. Obviously, you cannot hear or read. It has been explained MANY times that the threshold was $250k.... If you are going to debate for and insist on your tax cut extension, debate it on truthful ground. Spreading lies is pathetic.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
the rich have never been richer, and the economy is in the shitter.
i keep hearing this same line from the proponents of wealth redistribution. where is the correlation between these two? government, creating nothing, cannot produce anything but debt. it is the private sector, capable only of influencing public policy as far as our representatives will allow, that is responsible for the creation of wealth. how is pumping more of the private sectors wealth into the abyss of government spending going to do anything more than increase the ability of government to produce more debt? as we pump trillions of dollars into the government coffers each year, our debt has only increased. the only incentive for government to decrease its spending is to decrease its access to our wealth. yes, the rich are a part of us whether you want to admit it or not and their wealth is a part of the larger pool that we consider private wealth. transferring wealth from the private sector to the public has never done more than create temporary relief and the cost has always been the enabling of government to more freely spend on whatever it sees fit.

the impetus for our ever increasing welfare state has always been the illusion that we the people are in control of our government. this has never been less true than it is today. even with our advances in communication technology, the curtain behind which our government operates has never been more opaque or the bureaucracy been more secretive. edicts are issued from behind the curtain in response to the demands of the people, but all we see on this side are the theatrics and a meager flow of restrictions and entitlements. feeding that hidden monster has become the only thing that matters and it is eating us out of house and home. offering up our wealthy is no answer, it will only come back for more.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
funny how people say rich people gave me a job...lol...WTF makes me think that they would suck for a buck...lol..Dude you gave your own self a job by applying for it...We are what makes rich people rich...When you understand that then maybe you can get somewhere. If middle class or poor people did not buy or use products/services then rich people would not be nor get rich...If people did not work or make product then again the rich would not be rich...its you who make the rich...I own my own businesses and believe you me if no one came to wash clothes I would not have a business for long...

Now far as letting the Bush tax run out on the rich...Well just look at history and let it speak for its self...You know, I think it's fair to say, if the current tax rates were enough to create jobs and generate economic growth we'd have a growing economy...in fact we have not...tax cuts passed in 2001 amid big promises about what they would do for the economy. What followed? The decade with the slowest average annual growth since World War II.
Clinton raised taxes slightly on the rich and it produced a budget surplus and the fact that jobs were still being create...
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Bull SHIT. Obviously, you cannot hear or read. It has been explained MANY times that the threshold was $250k.... If you are going to debate for and insist on your tax cut extension, debate it on truthful ground. Spreading lies is pathetic.
IF CONGRESS DOES NOTHING AND DOES NOT REPEAL ANY OF THE TAX CUTS PEOPLE AS LOW AS 30K WILL SEE A BIGGER DEDUCTION FROM THEIR PAYCHECKS!!

Reading is fundamental... None of the tax cuts has been made permanent. If congress does nothing then almost everyone will be affected.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
IF CONGRESS DOES NOTHING AND DOES NOT REPEAL ANY OF THE TAX CUTS PEOPLE AS LOW AS 30K WILL SEE A BIGGER DEDUCTION FROM THEIR PAYCHECKS!!

Reading is fundamental... None of the tax cuts has been made permanent. If congress does nothing then almost everyone will be affected.
So YOU say.... Please provide evidence, because everything I have read and heard regarding this issue contradicts you.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
So YOU say.... Please provide evidence, because everything I have read and heard regarding this issue contradicts you.
In your first post you blamed Democrats for delaying.... That's laughable, as they were trying to get it to the floor. It was the obstruction and promises of fillibuster that have shelved it. Your claim that Dems will raise taxes on everyone is false.

If congress can't come to an agreement, and the tax breaks do expire for EVERYONE, I blame the damn Republicans who refused to vote FOR the breaks for middle and poor America. I'm certainly not going to blame the party that wanted to allow the cuts to expire for about 5% of the country.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
ROFL.... wow, can you cite any further right leaning agencies? It is not a tax increase. It is a tax break that is expiring. It was snuck through congress in a parliamentary procedure under a budgeting loop hole that Republicans abused in 2001. Because it was a budgetary process, only a simple majority was needed to pass it. Therefore, the life of the bill is only 10 years.

Had the Republicans not been up to tricks to get it to pass, perhaps something more permanent would have been done bipartisanly.

We have seen what 10 years of the lowest taxes on record have done to us. During the tax breaks, our deficit has more than doubled, under a "conservative" party President. We have had two recessions. We have had the worst economy since the great depression. The rich have gotten richer at an alarming rate. Truly capitalism does work for a few.

No wonder the Republican Senators say no to extending tax breaks to the middle class and not the rich, since the average one of them is worth 2.3 million dollars each.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
YOU KEEP MISSING THE POINT!!!

Regardless of whether they are Republican or Democrat our government has spent us into the poor house... We are over 13 trillion dollars in real debt with hundreds of trillions of dollars in paper debt. The government just keeps spending more money and has projected trillion dollar deficits into the far future. We are borrowing 42 cents of ever dollar the government spends. WHEN DO WE SAY STOP?!?!?!

If you confiscate the wealth of all those people you are jealous of it will not come close to address the deficit.

THE PROBLEM IS SPENDING!!!

But hey, continue the class warfare. It is easy, it is lazy but unfortunately it leads to economic disaster...
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Hey Serapis,

You asked for links and I provided them. You attacked the source of the links. Did you even bother reading them? They contained facts that conflicted with your perfect world view.

Here, let me help you....

1 - The lowest bracket for the personal income tax is going to increase from 10 percent to 15 percent.
2 - The next lowest bracket for the personal income tax is going to increase from 25 percent to 28 percent.
3 - The 28 percent tax bracket is going to increase to 31 percent.
4 - The 33 percent tax bracket is going to increase to 36 percent.
5 - The 35 percent tax bracket is going to increase to 39.6 percent.
Now, the FACT is that the lowest bracket will go from 10% to 15%. That is not for people making 250K or more like you stated. I guess I could call you a LIAR as well huh?

So, as I correctly stated. If the congress does not extend any of the tax cuts it will affect people making less than 30K. You can appologize at any time.

When you spend all of your time reading liberal left leaning class warfare stuff, you tend to miss little facts like the truth...

But hey, happy to help you out....
 

klmmicro

Well-Known Member
I wonder if this bickering would stop if everyone simply went personal Agrarian style? Stay out of my field, it is mine. I will stay out of your field it is yours. Of course there would be the jealous lot still I suppose. Oh look, Joe grew much more than I did. He should have to share with me, right? I mean why should Joe have more food than me...

Get over it. It never will be a level playing field. Destroying the field in spite will not make things better.

You people that think taxes are a great idea are just wrong. Your entire argument hinges on the asinine concept that I OWE something to everyone else. Simply put, I do not owe you ANYTHING. Not a single dime.
 
Top