Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?

[Dan Kone]

How do you think it is right to make people who worked harder and smarter to pay more money in taxes to pay for the people who didn't?

Many of these people were born into wealth, they've never had to work a day in their lives.

I see this as a huge problem with the youth in America. They see the rich and wealthy paying more taxes when most of them worked harder in school and the people who slacked and didn't care get the break. What do you think this teaches our kids? Work less and get rewarded, work harder an pay the government......

.

I think it is completely false to say the wealthy work harder than the middle class. Many of them just had more opportunities in their lives. Judging by the wealthy people I know, their success had little to do with hard work or intelligence and a lot to do with being born into the right circumstances.

A CEO on average makes 700x what his average employee makes. Does a CEO really work 700 times harder than his average employee?

 

[Dan Kone]

Actually, a lot of these people don't pay taxes at all. The guy making $25,000 pays 10% or $2,500. The guy making $250,000 pays 33% in the last income bracket...I'm not going to the bracket math all the way up. Obama wants this to jump an extra 3% in a recession. Now which guy do you think pumps more money into the economy?

A good question. Sure, a guy making $250k puts more money into the economy, but this isn't a strait comparison. 10 people making 25k dump significantly more into the economy than one guy making $250k. 10k people making $100k per year dump a lot more money into the economy than one billionaire. The guy making $25k is pretty much guaranteed to dump all of his income back into the economy. The guy making $250k is probably keeping a lot of that money invested in gold right now which does nothing to stimulate the economy.

So yes, one guy making $250k per year dumps more money into the economy, but dollar for dollar people making $25k a year will dump a lot more money into the economy than the guy making $250k. That's why we get more bang for the buck giving money back to the guy making $25k per year.

Who is getting representation? We seemed to break away from Brittain with the slogan no taxation without representation. The tax brackets are 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% and 35%. If the Bush cuts expire, they go to 15%, 28%, 31%, 36%, and 39.6%.

Ok, well the taxes are not going up on anyone but the top tax bracket, so what you're saying isn't a realistic situation that could happen.

Historically would you say a top tax rate of 39.6% is a high tax rate or a low one?

Yeah, that's right, it's still really low. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Time to quit acting like the rich are being persecuted. That's a bunch of non-sense.

 

[NoDrama]

10 people making 100,000 a year do not pay anywhere close to what someone who makes a Billion. So you know, a billion is a thousand million. which is ten thousand times more than 100K. Math, its hard.

Wealthy people are made, not born. 80% of millionaires are the first generation of their family to become wealthy.

Self-employed people are more likely to become wealthy. Overall 20% of our population is self-employed, while 75% of millionaires are self-employed. This high percentage is largely attributable to self-employed professionals like attorneys and physicians. The others, who are entrepreneurs, are as likely to go bankrupt as they are to become wealthy. Those entrepreneurs, who do accumulate wealth, as well as the professionals, have other attributes.

That's why we get more bang for the buck giving money back to the guy making $25k per year.

The government doesn't have money to give anyone, it takes from one to give to the other. Its a ZERO SUM game my friend.

 

[NLXSK1]

Many of these people were born into wealth, they've never had to work a day in their lives.

So the government has a right to confiscate their wealth? You seem hung up on the right for the government to take the majority of wealthy peoples money. As soon as they start doing that there will be no more wealthy people. And you can wallow in your mediocrity and poverty along with everyone else. Aaah, equality through shared misery... I get it!!

 

[redivider]

notice how none of the conservatives seem to want to address the simple fact I keep pointing out:

giving the wealthy their tax cut will cost everybody else 2,000 dollars in debt.

the poor, middle class, the struggling, working.... everybody will have to take out more than two thousand dollars in debt, so that the rich can keep an unsustainable tax cut which was designed with expiration in mind, because it would put too much strain on the federal budget.

and it isn't stimulating the economy one bit. lets not forget the rich are enjoying their tax cut as we speak.

they've been able to keep their tax-cut for 10 years and the only thing that's happened is we have a richer upper class, a poorer middle-class, and an economy that shows it.

 

[NLXSK1]

notice how none of the conservatives seem to want to address the simple fact I keep pointing out:

giving the wealthy their tax cut will cost everybody else 2,000 dollars in debt.

the poor, middle class, the struggling, working.... everybody will have to take out more than two thousand dollars in debt, so that the rich can keep an unsustainable tax cut which was designed with expiration in mind, because it would put too much strain on the federal budget.

and it isn't stimulating the economy one bit. lets not forget the rich are enjoying their tax cut as we speak.

they've been able to keep their tax-cut for 10 years and the only thing that's happened is we have a richer upper class, a poorer middle-class, and an economy that shows it.

I am not addressing it because it is not true.

Look at it this way, say you make 40,000 dollars. Now, say you set up a budget where you spend 60,000 dollars per year. How long do you think you can be doing this before you are bankrupt?

The government needs to cut its spending. The thousands of dollars in debt you are talking about has not been spent by the government yet. Hell, it hasnt even been budgeted seriously.

The Obama tax cuts for the middle class are going to cost 3 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. If the funds are so vital to running our government then why dont we all pay extra?

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR MONEY OR MY MONEY... OR JOES MONEY IF HE HAPPENS TO BE RICH.

If Obama puts a heavy tax increase on the people who create jobs in this country the unemployment will be higher and go on longer... Dont you see that?

So, I would ask you to stop coveting your neighbors wealth and direct your anger towards the government who has managed to pile up more debt than every American working for a full year to pay off. Unless you figure it out you are going down with the ship while Obama, Reid & Pelosi re-arrange the deck chairs.

 

[redivider]

not true??

are you sure about that????

stupid, blind, clueless, and based on ideology. that describes you perfectly.

70 billion dollars per year. that's what this little tax break for the rich costs us.

for 10 years, because that's the time period the extension would last. the US census beaureu measures US population at 307 million. lets round it down to 300 to keep it clean.

[70,000,000,000/300,000,000]*10 = [233.33]*10 = 2,333.33.

i don't think i'm wrong.

i think you are blinded by stupidity, which is caused by cluelessness, and it's based on ideology which might actually find solutions to certain problems.

this is not one of them.

you sir, are WRONG. PERIOD.

 

[NoDrama]

notice how none of the conservatives seem to want to address the simple fact I keep pointing out:

giving the wealthy their tax cut will cost everybody else 2,000 dollars in debt.

the poor, middle class, the struggling, working.... everybody will have to take out more than two thousand dollars in debt, so that the rich can keep an unsustainable tax cut which was designed with expiration in mind, because it would put too much strain on the federal budget.

and it isn't stimulating the economy one bit. lets not forget the rich are enjoying their tax cut as we speak.

they've been able to keep their tax-cut for 10 years and the only thing that's happened is we have a richer upper class, a poorer middle-class, and an economy that shows it.

Thats not how it works Red. They just create the money by monetizing the debt, the extra $2000 will be borne by everyone that buys food, energy or luxuries through the insidious process known as INFLATION. Thats how everything the government purchases gets paid for, taxes are only used to service the debt. They don't use tax income to pay government employees or build roads, they borrow that money.

Nothing will stimulate the economy until the bad debt goes away.

 

[NLXSK1]

70 billion dollars per year. that's what this little tax break for the rich costs us.

It is not your money to take from them. Government costs you money by raising your taxes.


You did not bother to address more than the 1st sentence of my post. Which shows how superficial your thinking is on these topics.

If the government didnt spend the 70 billion dollars, nobody would owe it.

 

[Dan Kone]

10 people making 100,000 a year do not pay anywhere close to what someone who makes a Billion. So you know, a billion is a thousand million. which is ten thousand times more than 100K. Math, its hard.

Yeah, I said 10k not 10. Before acting snotty make sure you're reading it correctly or you run the risk of sounding like a giant douche.

Reading comprehension, I guess it's hard for some people.

 

[Dan Kone]

The government doesn't have money to give anyone, it takes from one to give to the other. Its a ZERO SUM game my friend.

So why take from the middle class and give to the rich when the opposite will stimulate the economy more.

I'm not talking about any thing robin hood like, just going back to a moderate historical tax rate that worked out very well for our country. Why is an extreme far right tax rate better?

 

[Dan Kone]

So the government has a right to confiscate their wealth?

Why is it only confiscating wealth only when talking about the rich? What makes it ok to take money from the middle class but not the rich?

Why is going back to a tax rate that is still considered extremely low historically compared to robbery?

Why shouldn't the people who benefit most from American society pay their fair share?

 

[NoDrama]

Yeah, I said 10k not 10. Before acting snotty make sure you're reading it correctly or you run the risk of sounding like a giant douche.

Reading comprehension, I guess it's hard for some people.

My mistake, Im not acting snotty friend, you might somehow interpret it that way, but I assure it is not meant in that tone. If you can read inflection i would love to know how you do it.

 

[NoDrama]

Why is it only confiscating wealth only when talking about the rich? What makes it ok to take money from the middle class but not the rich?

Why is going back to a tax rate that is still considered extremely low historically compared to robbery?

Why shouldn't the people who benefit most from American society pay their fair share?

when the tax rates were 70% the rich earned in excess of $50,000 which is $1.14 MILLION in todays dollars, not $250k.

At some point, additional taxes so discourage the activity being taxed, such as working or investing, that they yield less revenue rather than more. There are, after all, two rates that yield the same amount of revenue: high tax rates on low production, or low rates on high production. Likewise the history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people.

 

[NoDrama]

So why take from the middle class and give to the rich when the opposite will stimulate the economy more.

I'm not talking about any thing robin hood like, just going back to a moderate historical tax rate that worked out very well for our country. Why is an extreme far right tax rate better?

AHHH I now see how you have been deluded into thinking this is right/left issue. Its not, its an issue of liberty and freedoms.

 

[NLXSK1]

Why is it only confiscating wealth only when talking about the rich? What makes it ok to take money from the middle class but not the rich?

Why shouldn't the people who benefit most from American society pay their fair share?

Over 1/2 the population do not pay federal taxes. The top 1% of the wealthy in America pay 40% of federal taxes.

The people that benefit the most from American society are the people on generational welfare that continue to drain the system and not contribute. I agree they should pay alot more.

I want EVERYBODY to pay less in taxes... I consider all taxation confiscation of wealth.

 

[Canibitual]

nx
he doesn't understand that giving 1% of the population a tax cut means that everybody, rich, poor, middle class will essentially be taking out a 2,000 dollar loan, just so the rich can keep their tax CUT.
QUOTE]

That's like saying, If I only get 50% of your guy's wages, then I'm gonna be "forced" to take out a loan for 10 new 72" big screen tv's that I want... and you all will have to pay it sometime later... or at least pay the interest indefinately...

Normally everyone would say $(*#off, work hard and buy your own tv's... But In this world... some of you would actually be pissed that the "wealthier" guys didn't want to give me their whole paycheck to buy me my Jumbo Size TV's...

the people makeing over 250k are alot of small businesses... they are not the 1% that everyone keeps bull#hitting... that's basically foolish a notion ment to confuse and trick you into allowing the garbage to perpetuate... now if you changed that number to 5 million, that would prob be the ones you're looking for... those are the "super rich" that you guys seem to want to steal from... and yes, takeing money unfairly is stealing... even if the government is the one doing the takeing...

If I work harder and make more money... I don't want to give that money away... but that's exactly what the government expects...

 

[NoDrama]

If I work harder and make more money... I don't want to give that money away... but that's exactly what the government expects...

Exactly! So you either stop working harder or you find a way to keep the money, right? Either way a higher tax rate doesn't increase revenues for the government, it reduces them.

 

[skunky33]

I am not addressing it because it is not true.

Look at it this way, say you make 40,000 dollars. Now, say you set up a budget where you spend 60,000 dollars per year. How long do you think you can be doing this before you are bankrupt?

The government needs to cut its spending. The thousands of dollars in debt you are talking about has not been spent by the government yet. Hell, it hasnt even been budgeted seriously.

The Obama tax cuts for the middle class are going to cost 3 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. If the funds are so vital to running our government then why dont we all pay extra?

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR MONEY OR MY MONEY... OR JOES MONEY IF HE HAPPENS TO BE RICH.

If Obama puts a heavy tax increase on the people who create jobs in this country the unemployment will be higher and go on longer... Dont you see that?

So, I would ask you to stop coveting your neighbors wealth and direct your anger towards the government who has managed to pile up more debt than every American working for a full year to pay off. Unless you figure it out you are going down with the ship while Obama, Reid & Pelosi re-arrange the deck chairs.

It'll be another spend fest with republicans except they need to start a conflict with some third world country killing thousands of civilians to justify their spending and trick fools like you into thinking it's all for patriotism. You'll be waving your flag and singing "Praise the Lord and Pass the ammunition" and licking some republican bunghole. What makes you think republicans will do any better. I guess you've forgot the past 50 years. Giving money to the rich doesn't create jobs, why should it create jobs when the middle class are still too poor to buy their product. Are they going to hire people for the hell of it? You're talking about bullshit economics spouted by uneducated people and propagandists. We live in the lowest taxed era in American history, I wonder how we survived before? Keep on watching FAUX news, they distort, you abide.

I don't covet wealth, but you covet stupidity. I'm not defending the democrats but republicans will say anything to get into office and you idiots are tricked every time. I'm sorry I'm so mean, but I'm so sick and tired of people with no clue, brainwashed by FAUX news and their uneducated propaganda getting that redneck money. In FAUX news anyone who has a PhD is automatically a elitist liberal "leftist" and can't be trusted, but you should listen to a some one sided moron pandering to people who know nothing. Than you turn around thinking that you know something because you read/watch propaganda and than try to "teach" others.

 

[NoDrama]

It'll be another spend fest with republicans except they need to start a conflict with some third world country killing thousands of civilians to justify their spending and trick fools like you into thinking it's all for patriotism. You'll be waving your flag and singing "Praise the Lord and Pass the ammunition" and licking some republican bunghole. What makes you think republicans will do any better. I guess you've forgot the past 50 years. Giving money to the rich doesn't create jobs, why should it create jobs when the middle class are still too poor to buy their product. Are they going to hire people for the hell of it? You're talking about bullshit economics spouted by uneducated people and propagandists. We live in the lowest taxed era in American history, I wonder how we survived before? Keep on watching FAUX news, they distort, you abide.

I don't covet wealth, but you covet stupidity. I'm not defending the democrats but republicans will say anything to get into office and you idiots are tricked every time. I'm sorry I'm so mean, but I'm so sick and tired of people with no clue, brainwashed by FAUX news and their uneducated propaganda getting that redneck money. In FAUX news anyone who has a PhD is automatically a elitist liberal "leftist" and can't be trusted, but you should listen to a some one sided moron pandering to people who know nothing. Than you turn around thinking that you know something because you read/watch propaganda and than try to "teach" others.

I thought your diatribe was very misplaced. Where does NLXSK1 state he gets his ideas from Fox news? Where does he state that only the republicans can fix anything? Just because someone does not like the way things are currently going under a democrat leadership doesn't automatically imply that they are diametrically opposed. Inferring someones beliefs by what they don't believe in is a sure way to humility. Basically your whole post was just one big straw man argument and holds no merit at all.