So, I got a job

[Johnnyorganic]

Except for the ones with holes in the Hull.

The exception you mention is true.

However, a leaky boat is the responsibility of the Captain and no one else.

Fix the boat and it rises on the tide with all the others.

 

[hazorazo]

excellent spelling.

but you still have not answered my question:

with respect to job creation and shrinking wages, what positive effect has the temporary 4.6% tax decrease on millionaires had?

you keep going on this whole rant about how if my boss has to pay 39.6% instead of 35%, he or she can't do this or can't do that. it would seem to follow using your very same logic, that if they pay 35% instead of 39.6%, he or she can do this or can do that.

so, with this tax decrease in place, where has it gone? has it fueled job growth? let me check....nope. ZERO net job growth since their enactment. has it trickled down to employees in the form of growing wages, ot ones that at least keep pace with the increased cost of living? let me check....nope. wages have SHRUNK, despite increased employee productivity.

so the 35% rate hasn't produced any jobs, it hasn't lead to better wages...where has it gone?

This is all guys like Jeff, and his ilk do. They think debate is getting on your soapbox and repeating the same thing over and over. In debate, you actually have to overcome arguments, not just talk over them...... and the reason your parents put you into private school is that you kept getting your ass kicked in public school.

Look, the only thing private school folks had over me in high school was that THEY HAD MONEY. I can tell you came from money because no middle class family has the money to send their kids to private school, unless it is subsidized somehow. I can guarantee you, with my public education, that I would run circles over you academically.

 

[NoDrama]

The CEO's make large paychecks because the OWNERS of the company CHOOSE to pay them that much. Know who the owners of the company are? The Stockholders. If you look at PRIVATE companies that do not trade stocks, you will see a much different picture. GREED did this, not some political affiliation.

You don't need 2 incomes and revolving credit to make a living. You just need sound financial wisdom and be willing to miss out on some of the extravagant lifestyle that the majority of Americans feel they are entitled to. You don't really need a big screen OLED HDTV, you don't need a new car or fashionable clothes or that fancy new motorcycle that you ride 3 times a year or that fishing boat that sees water 20 hours a year. What you need are shelter, food, love and the Liberty to make your life what you want it to be. Our forefathers had to create everything that came to be with their own 2 hands. We couldn't just walk into wal-mart and buy everything we needed, they had to find a way to make it. The spirit of that nation has been lost.

GREED for excesses in life is what drove this country to madness. We have so many excesses that we take most of it for granted and bitch like no tomorrow if we don't get our double latte with half cream half milk with a sprikle of cinnamon every morning. Things used to be simpler, but we have all moved to the city and are packed into apartment buildings and condos like sardines in a school. The other half live in the suburbs and compete with the Jones's for every little thing. Who has the nicest home, or the granite countertops or the cherry wood cabinets, the most manicured lawn blah blah blah. You don't NEED any of that shit.

 

[hazorazo]

Well, for one thing those of you who are arguing that the cuts were only for the millionaires and above are deluded and have been hanging around MSNBC a little too long. Most of the small business owners and small corporation owners are in a situation where the income from their endeavors is collected on their personal income taxes.
For instance, my family owns a couple of convenience stores that earn about 235K per year when all is said and done. Now that is not pure profit going into our pocket, it has to be used in the running of the business and to keep the gas trucks coming to fill our tanks so you can fill yours.... etc.
This is the case in the majority of small businesses. I don't know the exact ratio, so I won't take a guess at the actual number. But by increasing tax on a sector of people who are providing the lions share of the jobs in this country would be counter productive. That and the fact that the Obama administration (and Slobberin' Barney Frank) has all but openly waged war on the small business sector, has kept many businesses who would like to hire more people on the sidelines until they can figure out just how hard of a fucking we are going to take from this administration. After this last November, it appears that maybe things will start to turn around. Now if we can get Pelosi, Reid, and Bawney Fwank to go away, I for one believe that the economic sector will pick up with the vigor we saw in the 80's.

Oh, and for those of you who feel like you have to toe the libtard line about the millionaires and billionaires bullshit.... just remember that the top 2% of earners pay well over 50% of the taxes as it is.

Do the math on your 235K. Lets make it 250K just to make math easy. A 5 percent tax break for the wealthy, which at 250K, you are not even in the highest bracket. At 250K a year, a 5 percent tax break is 12,500 dollars if you just do straight math on the money. So this is a high end estimate.

Now with that 12,500 dollars, do you think you are going to go right out and hire a new person? I don't. First of all, that will not pay a full time person, and second of all, business owners do not hire new people because they made more money. They hire new people because of NEED. If you can make that extra 12,500 dollars with all the same employees you already have, why would you ever hire another?

I hope you can see your logic is anything but logical. You and I both know you are not going to hire someone new, but not all people are educated enough to even do the math.

And for you, remember that that top 2 percent, that you say pays 50 percent of taxes? Well, remember that they made 98 percent of the money in the US, so they should be paying a majority of the taxes.

 

[hazorazo]

The CEO's make large paychecks because the OWNERS of the company CHOOSE to pay them that much. Know who the owners of the company are? The Stockholders. If you look at PRIVATE companies that do not trade stocks, you will see a much different picture. GREED did this, not some political affiliation.

You don't need 2 incomes and revolving credit to make a living. You just need sound financial wisdom and be willing to miss out on some of the extravagant lifestyle that the majority of Americans feel they are entitled to. You don't really need a big screen OLED HDTV, you don't need a new car or fashionable clothes or that fancy new motorcycle that you ride 3 times a year or that fishing boat that sees water 20 hours a year. What you need are shelter, food, love and the Liberty to make your life what you want it to be. Our forefathers had to create everything that came to be with their own 2 hands. We couldn't just walk into wal-mart and buy everything we needed, they had to find a way to make it. The spirit of that nation has been lost.

GREED for excesses in life is what drove this country to madness. We have so many excesses that we take most of it for granted and bitch like no tomorrow if we don't get our double latte with half cream half milk with a sprikle of cinnamon every morning. Things used to be simpler, but we have all moved to the city and are packed into apartment buildings and condos like sardines in a school. The other half live in the suburbs and compete with the Jones's for every little thing. Who has the nicest home, or the granite countertops or the cherry wood cabinets, the most manicured lawn blah blah blah. You don't NEED any of that shit.

Just hope you realize the pay they get is to stifle any sense of morals they had left at that point. This is truly what CEO's get paid that much for. My cousin is a genius, and could easily run any company, but he has morals. The CEO's constantly forget about the production worker and their importance to his success.

I worked in corporate america, have you? I had an inside look at how decisions are made, did you? I left that life because I think the folks that constantly make decisions like that for money are not the people I want to surround myself with. Now I make a lot less money, and I am much happier. Now, with that said, does that mean I lose my right to criticize what is wrong with corporations......absolutely not.

 

[undertheice]

so, with this tax decrease in place, where has it gone?

i realize this is a futile exercise because, whether you want to admit it or not, you already know the answer, but here goes.

in case you haven't noticed, we've been having some economic troubles lately. a bursting housing bubble, wall street in disarray and most every industry scrambling. couple those problems with the rise of asia as a major economic player and our own government playing fast and loose with their authority, it's no wonder american business is running a bit scared and we have a true unemployment rate of well over the ten percent that is being admitted to. so where did that extra money go to? maybe you should wonder how much worse things can get and how much worse they might now be without those extra funds infused into the nation's businesses. some of it went to keep businesses solvent that would otherwise have folded under the pressure, some of it went to keep investors from jumping ship as it listed to port, some of it was invested in much better bets than our unstable marketplace and some of it was merely horded in hopes of a more business friendly atmosphere to come. you know perfectly well that there's a whole lot more to successful business than just having cash around. it takes confidence and opportunity as well and, though there has been some of the latter, there has been little enough of the former of late.

i'm not about to try and claim that the wealthy and the most productive of us should be held blameless. i'm merely offering up the opinion that we must all shoulder some of that blame and that we shouldn't be trying to place the cost of repairing the damage solely on those with the most to lose. our incessant demands for higher wages, more profit and the best of everything has led us to this point and we cannot simply stick out our hands and ask the government to provide us with more. it may sound a bit cliche, but the price of liberty is the possibility of failure and the willingness to do for one's self. demanding that others dig us out of our hole merely because they have the capacity runs contrary to the ideals this country was set up to fulfill and our ideals are far more important than our comfort and sometimes even more important than our lives.

i know you'll just ignore the possibility of the good that these tax cuts have done, pointing to our current situation and claiming that those funds would have been better spent on government giveaways. you'll ignore the fear engendered by 9/11 and the effect of the smear campaign against american business embarked upon by the democrats. you'll blame the rich, the republicans, the conservatives and anyone else that doesn't embrace the tenets of social democracy. so be it.

 

[NoDrama]

Just hope you realize the pay they get is to stifle any sense of morals they had left at that point. This is truly what CEO's get paid that much for. My cousin is a genius, and could easily run any company, but he has morals. The CEO's constantly forget about the production worker and their importance to his success.

I worked in corporate america, have you? I had an inside look at how decisions are made, did you? I left that life because I think the folks that constantly make decisions like that for money are not the people I want to surround myself with. Now I make a lot less money, and I am much happier. Now, with that said, does that mean I lose my right to criticize what is wrong with corporations......absolutely not.

Worked in the Corporate world with a fortune 50 company. All decisions are made with one main thing in mind..PROFIT!! Without profit the shareholders will be angry and start selling the stock, the selling will cause the stock price to plummet precipitously. The Board will have a meeting and the CEO will be outed. You will need to convince the shareholders to be morally superior before you will ever have a CEO that is. You can complain all you want to that it is the board and the CEO who are to blame, but it is ultimately the shareholders who must shoulder that responsibility. And who are the shareholders? People like you and me, people that have 401K and Roth IRA. Do you know what I say?

 

[medicineman]

The CEO's make large paychecks because the OWNERS of the company CHOOSE to pay them that much. Know who the owners of the company are? The Stockholders.
I'm pretty sure the "stockholders" do not decide to give their CEOs and executives million dollar+++ salaries and bonuses, that is pretty much up to the board of directors that are benefiting from those same huge salaries. Having been a stockholder, I don't ever remember anyone asking me what to pay CEOs and other executives, ever. So that arguement is certainly full of holes.

 

[TshirtNinja]

People like you are why change never occurs. You just do not believe it is possible.

You are exactly the type of person corporations want working for them, so if you like getting bent over, by all means, continue.

Ultimately, talking about how American workers are underpaid and corporate CEO's are OVERPAID is a FACT. It is not whining just because someone observes that shit is wrong......

Tons of businesses are getting away with hiring people for less money, because folks are desperate.

And if you cannot agree that corporations profits hardly ever trickle down, then you are a fool. This is why wages have gone to crap, too many corporations. Do you know what the CEO gets paid to do? Increase profits and investment return for the investors. If he makes the investors tons of money, he gets a huge bonus. So this same CEO is the one faced with giving production line employees a raise, or increasing investors return, and WHAT DO YOU THINK HE CHOOSES? He constantly chooses the investors as the beneficiary, not the production line workers.

Just go look up the amount production line workers made in the early 70's compared with the CEO's of their companies at that time. I think the CEO's made like 70 times the amount of money the production line workers made, which is still a great living.....Today, it is something like 450 times the amount a production worker makes.

Used to be that a mechanic could have his wife at home and a couple kids and make ends meet. Now, you need 2 incomes, and revolving credit to just make ends meet.

And I guarantee, I have put more work in than YOU (25 year old blow hard) and you would never think about calling me lazy to my face. Because you would actually have to deal with the consequences of that mouth.

Have fun getting bent over, while the rest of us try to avoid it.

Well I guess that I will just enjoy getting bent over for the interview that I'm attending for a promotion tomorrow as well..... The corp game is just that.... A GAME! I bring something to the table that assists my company and I get my promotions and raises. All I have to do is keep running Six Sigma projects for these boobs and they think we shit out gold. I do statistics and database reporting. But I also worked on a ranch from age 14 and grew up in an all German community in the south. I laugh at you for trying to act like anyone that is under 30 is a complete buffoon and not capable of doing challenging labor. I ask you to show me most people's financial situations that are twice my age and you will see that I'm completely ahead of the curve when it comes to my retirement which is the reason why I work as hard as I do. I'm debt free and almost have enough to throw half down on a decent house with the paper to pay it off comfortably within 5 years and I get to grab a loan from my own company and they throw down another 5k for my down payment plus I get a whole point below the day's market rate. I have a 401k and a Roth IRA which both didn't see too much hurt in the recent economy because i spread my funds to many different mutual funds with solid track records and LEFT THEM ALONE. Oh yeah and I have a pension that I'm fully vested in 2 years so there's some more free money for sitting in a chair. Enjoy your financed cars and ridiculous credit cards. Enjoy fearing the corporate gig. You think I'm working corp my whole life? Hell no. But what I will do is let my employer pimp me out with stuff to help my future along with my education by paying for that too. I get that for grins and have a Master Black Belt in Six Sigma project training/leading and I go freelance pulling three times the dough I did at the corp gig. Oh and guess what? As an employer I don't piss test.

 

[UncleBuck]

As an employer I don't piss test.

bless you, you are a good man.

drug tests eliminated over 80% of the job market for me, doesn't matter that i am a legal (on state level) medicinal user.

i find it funny that i was unable to get a job cleaning carpets because i smoke cannabis.

 

[UncleBuck]

to be completely honest, you already lost the debate. thanks for playing. you really have little grasp about anything let alone trickle down.

ha, if you need to convince yourself that you won the debate chances are you didn't.

you ever gonna actually give me an answer to my question?

 

[UncleBuck]

As far as trickle-down is concerned, it is not really debatable. It is a proven economic principle.

A rising tide raises ALL boats.

reconcile that statement with the shrinking wages and zero net job growth despite lower taxes and increased productivity.

glad to hear you're doing well with the networking.

 

[Hemlock]

You still just bitchin and moanin...all you do is fight with folks on here. Shit man you should be happy you got a job. But like a typical leftie you bitch about. Not enough money, the govt and my boss is fuckin me, right wingers holding me down.....Even your President Likes regan and sees the value of his policy.
This is what u should be mad about. But i'm sure its OK with you because it the great nancy P


According to previous documents uncovered by Judicial Watch, Speaker’s military travel cost the United States Air Force $2,100,744.59 over a two-year period – $101,429.14 of which was for in-flight expenses, including food and alcohol. For example, purchases for one Pelosi-led congressional delegation traveling from Washington, DC, through Tel Aviv, Israel to Baghdad, Iraq May 15-20, 2008 included: Johnny Walker Red scotch, Grey Goose vodka, E&J brandy, Bailey’s Irish Creme, Maker’s Mark whiskey, Courvoisier cognac, Bacardi Light rum, Jim Beam whiskey, Beefeater gin, Dewar’s scotch, Bombay Sapphire gin, Jack Daniels whiskey, Corona beer and several bottles of wine.
On it goes, after the jump.

Judicial Watch also previously uncovered internal Department of Defense documents (DOD) email correspondence detailing attempts by DOD staff to accommodate Pelosi’s numerous requests for military escorts and military aircraft as well as the speaker’s last minute cancellations and changes. For example, in response to a series of requests for military aircraft, one Defense Department official wrote, “Any chance of politely querying [Pelosi's team] if they really intend to do all of these or are they just picking every weekend?…[T]here’s no need to block every weekend ‘just in case’… The email also notes that Pelosi’s office had, “a history of canceling many of their past requests.”
“Pelosi’s abusive use of military aircraft demonstrates a shocking lack of regard for the American taxpayer and the men and women who serve in the U.S. Air Force. Speaker Pelosi may have a frequent flyer record for taxpayer-financed luxury jet travel,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.

 

[NoDrama]

You still just bitchin and moanin...all you do is fight with folks on here.

True, but thats also the point of the politics section, to debate, I don't really think UB is bitching and moaning. I mean, he doesn't HAVE to work, he married into a wealthy family for Pete's sake.

 

[Hemlock]

True, but thats also the point of the politics section, to debate, I don't really think UB is bitching and moaning. I mean, he doesn't HAVE to work, he married into a wealthy family for Pete's sake.

So that makes it OK that he bitches about gettin a job,,,LOL,,,when everyone else in America would love to have a job.
One Leftie defends the actions of the other, even when wrong.

How did I know there would be no comment on Nancy...LOL....Its OK if she does it, shes a leftie.

 

[UncleBuck]

True, but thats also the point of the politics section, to debate, I don't really think UB is bitching and moaning. I mean, he doesn't HAVE to work, he married into a wealthy family for Pete's sake.

that is exactly correct, but i hate the idea of someone supporting me.

and hemlock, you might see bitching because your reading comprehension is poor.

perhaps you can step in for jeff f and answer the question i continue to pose in this thread: why have we seen shrinking wages and zero net job growth despite lower taxes and increased productivity?

i mean, these tax cuts are supposed to 'trickle down', as they were explained to me. so where did they trickle to, since it is clearly not wages or jobs?

gosh, i am just such a dumb liberal, i need one of them ultra-intelligent people like you to explain it all for me.

 

[UncleBuck]

So that makes it OK that he bitches about gettin a job,,,LOL,,,when everyone else in America would love to have a job.
One Leftie defends the actions of the other, even when wrong.

How did I know there would be no comment on Nancy...LOL....Its OK if she does it, shes a leftie.

for the Nth time, hemlock, i ain't bitching here, i am wondering. i was told this wealth would trickle down, that is how it was billed...so where are the jobs? where are the wages? care to reconcile that?

and how dare nancy pelosi use a military plane or imbibe alcohol. i bet with two million dollars we could have paid off that whole deficit thing

 

[Hemlock]

that is exactly correct, but i hate the idea of someone supporting me.

and hemlock, you might see bitching because your reading comprehension is poor.

perhaps you can step in for jeff f and answer the question i continue to pose in this thread: why have we seen shrinking wages and zero net job growth despite lower taxes and increased productivity?

i mean, these tax cuts are supposed to 'trickle down', as they were explained to me. so where did they trickle to, since it is clearly not wages or jobs?

gosh, i am just such a dumb liberal, i need one of them ultra-intelligent people like you to explain it all for me.

Due to the real estate Market...Its easy.. sorry you can't see it.
But Barney Frank and Chris Dodd made it so easy to get a loan that it tanked the economy..Its not that hard..All experts in the field say no recovery till housing recovers. Housing affects everything..
Seems like the trickle down is working for you lad..LOL.. married into a wealthy family...LOL... it works for UB but not everyone else..
Oh don't say your dumb UB I can tell you are very impressed with yourself....

 

[UncleBuck]

by the way, the job is a little better than expected. i get to operate a forklift and a kubota, and spend my day working with plants. the people are totally chill and laid back as well.

and i was mistaken, they do offer a fairly reasonable and basic health/dental/vision. also a 401K with a 3% match. gotta love free money.

 

[Hemlock]

for the Nth time, hemlock, i ain't bitching here, i am wondering. i was told this wealth would trickle down, that is how it was billed...so where are the jobs? where are the wages? care to reconcile that?

and how dare nancy pelosi use a military plane or imbibe alcohol. i bet with two million dollars we could have paid off that whole deficit thing

No buddy your bitchin...read your own words,,, your bitchin..LOL...
I knew it,,,, its OK nancy...LOL.. boy you lefties are real hyprocrites..glad your not the majority anymore the rest of us can't afford folks like Nancy