The Quest for a Better Aero!

[Mike Young]

Ok, so I might've goofed on the power for the solenoids. I was using a 300mA 12v transformer to fire em, and the chinese guy at STC said I need 1.7 amps to fire them. He had me relieve the pressure, and it fired everytime. Makes sense now. When I was having trouble with it yesterday I took my wrench at touched it to the nut and it would open. I guess that increased the magnetic field enough to open it.

Thanks for stoppin in Mary. Did you ever complete your root excelurator experiment? I'd be interested in the results.

 

[Alaric]

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/348670-introducing-aerotunnel.html

A~~

 

[Atomizer]

Mike
I would opt for a better power supply so you can use more pressure. The psu from an old pc tower is a cheap option, depending on the size it could provide anything from 8-36A at 12v.

 

[PetFlora]

Rock on MikeY.

Once you have the curtains pulled up I suspect the pressure will cause the atomized mist to rise and fill the chamber.

 

[MediMary]

still conduction further tests, but at this point I feel the fast root growth people talk about while using it only happens when the plant is very small and has a very small root system. so in a nutshell in my aero cloner I may inoculate with RE.. but due to the cost I wouldnt use it as my primary root zone treatment. as once the plant is a little larger I could see no difference in root growth between sterilizing products and benies... Also with benies you have to worry about biofilm as well as a few other problems.
So far my best luck has been with alternating sterlizing products..
what about urself, do you use anything in these HP setups .. or just let them ride..
ill drop you a message when I finish my write up, it will still be going on for quite awhile.

 

[Mike Young]

still conduction further tests, but at this point I feel the fast root growth people talk about while using it only happens when the plant is very small and has a very small root system. so in a nutshell in my aero cloner I may inoculate with RE.. but due to the cost I wouldnt use it as my primary root zone treatment. as once the plant is a little larger I could see no difference in root growth between sterilizing products and benies... Also with benies you have to worry about biofilm as well as a few other problems.
So far my best luck has been with alternating sterlizing products..
what about urself, do you use anything in these HP setups .. or just let them ride..
ill drop you a message when I finish my write up, it will still be going on for quite awhile.

I think I will use alot less this time around. Root excel first month, aqua flakes, protek, & cal-mag. I actually went half way through my first cycle without using cal-mag. They say that if you use RO that you gotta have it, but I'm not so sure. I'll try & keep it as simple as possible. No more hydrozyme, that's for sure.

 

[Mike Young]

Video of my HPA setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj5iG4mwwkM

Should be getting her fired up this weekend. Got some final touches to finish up, ie: tighten up wiring/tubing, may need to use an elbow to point one nozzle inward so it fires at the roots of a baby. Really fuckin stoked to see what kind of bushes I can get this time. Gonna throw up the scrog net & see just how much I can pull from 2 plants. I chose pnpl exp & mango on recommendation. Mango was said to be a great yeild, whilst PE was just said to be awesome. Can't wait.

I have a filter I was gonna use post accum. But it is a carbon filter. Will it stop Mg from getting to the roots?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I've seen most of you guys before, but in much older threads- thanks for all the knowledge... I am ready to put together my pods and give it a whirl. I live in Hawaii and want to do an outdoor setup, so my biggest concern is the temps which are 80-95f daily. I have been told to make chilling coils to cool the solution just before the solenoid, but am worried the pod will still trap too much heat and am trying to decide how to conquer that issue. I have a chiller and could concievably run some coils of circulating cold water in the bottom of an insulated pod to do the trick? - But electric is so high out here if I could get away from the chiller would be great... Mike- your leaf bag idea is similar to a collapsable chamber idea I myself had- how do you think that will work so far? I'm thinking it might allow for the coolest temps as it will allow the heat to escape fairly readily and it lends itself to evaporative cooling better than a plastic or thicker chamber... I only intend to have about 6 sites or so to start, and am really stuck on the pod design with cooling as my number one priority. Looking to get a flotec 150 psi demand pump and an accumulator rated to 150 psi (found tanks really cheap here (I know this is a real score with the higher pressures and cheap pricing) http://www.pexsupply.com/THERM-X-TROL-Tanks-354000 Hope you guys like the link and that perhaps someone has a solution for my pod temp worries...

 

[PetFlora]

MikeY: A carbon filter will eventually clog up but your TDS ppms are low so it would take a long time Carbon filters are designed for VOCs, chlorine, and all the compounds chlorine makes being the whore of the Periodic Chart. Can't figure out why you would have this after adding nutes. .hth

 

[PetFlora]

Trichy B: I had an issue with high Pod RH during a recent 5 day heat wave; it shot up to 88-91. I solved it by venting (elbow so light doesn't enter) and having a fan blow by the vent pulling the heat out. Also wrap your pod in a flexible insulation or build it out of insulted Prefab 4 X 8 panels. Both are available in big box hardware stores. hth

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Thanks- Petflora... May I ask what the outside temps were around that time, and what temp that fix brought it down to? The issue I have is that if the ambient air is 95 and I pull it in, well the only way it's gonna be cooler in there than 95 is through evaporation- which could be enough to fix the issue, but relative humidity is also high here, which renders evaporation alot less efficient to cool... I wonder if just putting a small vent hole on top of the pod would allow a convection effect- letting the cool air draw in the drain holes in the bottom and the hot air would escape out the top through the vent (adding a fan if nesessary)... I am pretty sure this is going to be my biggest obstacle...

 

[Mike Young]

I've seen most of you guys before, but in much older threads- thanks for all the knowledge... I am ready to put together my pods and give it a whirl. I live in Hawaii and want to do an outdoor setup, so my biggest concern is the temps which are 80-95f daily. I have been told to make chilling coils to cool the solution just before the solenoid, but am worried the pod will still trap too much heat and am trying to decide how to conquer that issue. I have a chiller and could concievably run some coils of circulating cold water in the bottom of an insulated pod to do the trick? - But electric is so high out here if I could get away from the chiller would be great... Mike- your leaf bag idea is similar to a collapsable chamber idea I myself had- how do you think that will work so far? I'm thinking it might allow for the coolest temps as it will allow the heat to escape fairly readily and it lends itself to evaporative cooling better than a plastic or thicker chamber... I only intend to have about 6 sites or so to start, and am really stuck on the pod design with cooling as my number one priority. Looking to get a flotec 150 psi demand pump and an accumulator rated to 150 psi (found tanks really cheap here (I know this is a real score with the higher pressures and cheap pricing) http://www.pexsupply.com/THERM-X-TROL-Tanks-354000 Hope you guys like the link and that perhaps someone has a solution for my pod temp worries...

Electric expensive? What temp is the cold water in your faucet? Atomizer has a sweet chiller. It uses a solenoid/thermostat that lets in regular tap-water through a coil. Seems like it would do the trick. I hope he doesn't mind me putting that out there.

I don't have to worry about heat too much, but I may need to insulate my bins/lines with reflectix. I too may have to employ a tap based chiller for my feed lines, as they will be close to the light in early stages.

 

[Mike Young]

Just had an idea... Would using a sump pump to run a small waterfall inside the chamber, (away from the roots) provide a bit of cooling? I think I got room in my bins for something like that. Plus it would sound pretty cool. Constant waterfall with the occasional HP burst. Hell yeah!

 

[Atomizer]

If the ground temps are cooler you could partially bury the chamber and insulate the above ground section. You may need to dig a soakaway to deal with the run-off depending on how well the subsoil drains but it wouldnt need to be anything special. Running forced air through the chamber will dry the roots and take the mist out with it unless the droplets are huge and heavy
If the air temperature falls significantly at night there are a few other methods i could suggest.
If the roots are surrounded by cool mist once a minute, the insulated chamber wont get much chance to heat up. I`d use rigid insulation with a radiant barrier facing an airspace.
Mike, you`d need a big chamber for a waterfall, it would be hard to prevent the roots making a beeline for it

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Electric expensive? What temp is the cold water in your faucet? Atomizer has a sweet chiller. It uses a solenoid/thermostat that lets in regular tap-water through a coil. Seems like it would do the trick. I hope he doesn't mind me putting that out there.

I don't have to worry about heat too much, but I may need to insulate my bins/lines with reflectix. I too may have to employ a tap based chiller for my feed lines, as they will be close to the light in early stages.

Thanks Mike/Atomizer- I have seen a pic of his cooling system- pretty ingenious... My issue is that my pod(s) will be on a second story deck outdoors. I do have a hose bib I added a few years back, but it's runs through pvc running up a post on the side of my house which probably allows it to heat up closer to ambient temps. I don't have the luxury of buring anything unfortunately unless I go to the back yard (something I am trying not to do, at least until I get this down and don't have to check on things a few times a day). Funny thing is my mains run street pressure which is 90psi. I was firstly considering a tapwater nute injecition idea as I went through what so many aero growers do in trying to initially circumnavigate the accumulator. Then I remembered I had a water softener and nixed that idea. I then thought about making a 3" sealed pvc pressure chamber with fittings connected to a single loop of surgical tubing inside. The idea was through a coordinated cycling of 4 seperate solenoids it would function as a heart type pump where it would allow the chamber to fill with premix nutes, that solenoid would close and another would open allowing the surgical tubing to fill with tap water at 90psi which would pressurize the nute solution in the pipe through pressure equalibrium until another solenoid opened to the sprayers all while keeping the tap water physically separate from the nute solution. After the spray cycle completed- the surgical tubing solenoid would close and yet another solenoid on the opposite end of the surgical tubing would open and the pressure of the surgical tubing wanting to return to it's normal size would eject the formerly pressurized tap water which would create a vacuum to suck in another batch of nutes and repeat. Of course there was alot of coordinated precision solenoid timing and 1:1 wasted tap water for nutes. Turning on my shower at 6am last week day I noticed the pressure was significantly lower as the law sprinklers were on. I realized I was doing more half baked rigging than the work to just install a damn accumulator, and I have been alot more happy ever since shifting my thinking.
I do enjoy having to engineer through certain obstacles, anyone in hp aero does, but sometimes I can get carried away and have to come back to planet earth...

I do have a slight upgrade idea for the nute line chilling. The nutes in a smaller system would move pretty slow given the flow rates- possibly allowing them to warm back up from the chilled coils before being sprayed. If you have ever seen a glycol cooling system for beer taps this would be a similar principle. You could make some pvc pipe that runs a big loop- start at a chiller box reservoir after the accumutor and go to each nozzle. Use some bulkheads for running the JG tubing inside through the pvc and back out at the nozzle sites- use a pump to recirculate water through the pvc lines and loop them back into the chill box. It would effectively be a cooling conduit for the nute lines, but ran with recycling cool water sort of like a water jacket. This way the nutes would not have time to warm up in the runs of JG lines running to the nozzles and the nutes get chilled all the way just prior to injection... Then again using small diameter JG with frequent cycles has probably served everyone just fine, considering the thickness of the tubing must be somewhat insulating...

 

[PetFlora]

Thanks- Petflora... May I ask what the outside temps were around that time, and what temp that fix brought it down to? The issue I have is that if the ambient air is 95 and I pull it in, well the only way it's gonna be cooler in there than 95 is through evaporation- which could be enough to fix the issue, but relative humidity is also high here, which renders evaporation alot less efficient to cool... I wonder if just putting a small vent hole on top of the pod would allow a convection effect- letting the cool air draw in the drain holes in the bottom and the hot air would escape out the top through the vent (adding a fan if nesessary)... I am pretty sure this is going to be my biggest obstacle...

It's not about pulling cool air in as much as forcing hot air out. Click the link in my signature to get the answers to your questions. hth

 

[Atomizer]

It's not about pulling cool air in as much as forcing hot air out.

Forcing hot air out creates a slight negative pressure in the chamber which will pull air in to redress the balance. Heat is transported via a medium, air/water etc so you have to remove the medium to get rid of the heat. Its like trying to cool a room from 95F to 70F using one vent in the ceiling, no intake and no fan

Look at it this way, if you have a chamber that contains 55cubic feet of dry air and you need to cool it by 1degF which would be the easiest way?
Option A: remove all 55 cubic feet of air (could take a while with no airflow )
Option B: remove 1btu from the 55cubic feet air inside the chamber without removing it .All it takes is to evaporate 0.016oz of water from the mist..which is a tad less than 0.5ml or 1/10th of a teaspoonful.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Forcing hot air out creates a slight negative pressure in the chamber which will pull air in to redress the balance. Heat is transported via a medium, air/water etc so you have to remove the medium to get rid of the heat. Its like trying to cool a room from 95F to 70F using one vent in the ceiling, no intake and no fan

Look at it this way, if you have a chamber that contains 55cubic feet of dry air and you need to cool it by 1degF which would be the easiest way?
Option A: remove all 55 cubic feet of air (could take a while with no airflow )
Option B: remove 1btu from the 55cubic feet air inside the chamber without removing it .All it takes is to evaporate 0.016oz of water from the mist..which is a tad less than 0.5ml or 1/10th of a teaspoonful.

Thanks Atomizer, I know what a a calorie is and how much it warms, but never knew exactly how much evaporation it took to pull a degree down. I still think a small vent up top would be viable, because pulling ALL of the air out is not necessary, but only the warmer air- which will always rise to the top... Of course I am still talking out of my ass because I have yet to build my pod, but I will take all your advice in the meanwhile and let you guys know how it goes for me as it happens. And petflora- I will stop by your thread- thanks for the invite...

 

[PetFlora]

Thinking about what Atomizer is saying, I did put a couple half-inch holes in the side, down low which would help with drawing the hot air out, but probably only helps if the ambient air is cooler. hth

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Thinking about what Atomizer is saying, I did put a couple half-inch holes in the side, down low which would help with drawing the hot air out, but probably only helps if the ambient air is cooler. hth

I would -think- that holes near the TOP would let hot air out- but if you mean there is already a means for which warmer air could escape near the top, and you've added a couple down low- then this would be conducive of convectional cooling. The hot air would rise out the top of the pod, which would draw cooler air in through the lower holes you've added. The drawing in of dryer air from outside would initiate more evaporation, which would further cool the pod's interior. I will plan to do this very thing if heat seems an issue. I'd guess that keeping the holes smaller would do the job, while keeping the majority of the moisture contained. Had you taken any measurements of before and after temps- or noticed any difference?