An Atheist Goes to Bible Study

[Padawanbater2]

The lack of sufficient evidence to warrant belief.

 

[Naminator]

Can you elaborate further?

Is it there is a lack of evidence of a creator? Or is it something else.

Quiet obviously something is lacking in the explanations you have received about religion to make you an atheist. This leads me to believe, you or somebody who instilled atheistic beliefs in you was once going to a religious organization, but because of lack of satisfactory answers to questions you may or may not have voiced, you lost faith in organized religion in general.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Think of it like Santa Clause, I don't believe in that for the exact same reasons. Not enough evidence. I'll detail it further in a bit, just short on time right now..

 

[guy incognito]

Take it easy on those poor guys
As you can probably tell from my name I'm a spiritual person. Even though their not trying to hurt anyone I'm still against the ways people push religon on one another, who am I to tell someone what to believe? How can anyone know that a particular religon is "right"? I don't really fall into any one religon (I'm superticious, believe in reincarnation/karma) but to me all that really matters is that you have faith. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but personally I see atheism as a boring way to live out life, what is life without mystery, magice and wonder?

Also as an offroad racer and all around adrenaline junky there is no way I could live my life the way I do without having complete faith that I will go somewhere when I die.

They may not be trying to hurt people, but their actions are far from harmless.

Evidence. I know their religion is wrong.

You have absolutely no standards of evidence for anything you believe then and are easily duped.

All that matters is you have faith? Utterly ridiculous. This is exactly why bullshit like christianity is harmful. All that matters is you have faith. Doesn't even need to make sense, just believe it!

So you are unable to deal with reality and need to have faith as a coping mechanism? That doesn't make you right.

 

[Naminator]

incog please explain how my religion is wrong.

Also if you say "You believe faith trumps all" I don't.

 

[guy incognito]

Your religion? You didn't really explain anything about your religion other than you are superstitious and believe in reincarnation/karma. There is absolutely no evidence to support reincarnation or karma. There is also no reason to believe in superstition. Absolutely none. Anything you are superstitious about can be explained through science, or if it currently cannot be, there is zero reason to suspect anything supernatural is happening.

 

[Naminator]

I do not believe in Karma. There is absolutely no evidence to support that there is no god, that the world wasn't created and that we evolved out of monkeys. There is also no valid explanation for how the universe started, what space really is and why we even exist. To think, a planet orbiting a ball of fire in the middle of nowhere had the absolutely PERFECT conditions for life. This is a very fine balance. The sun is just the right size and strength, the earth is at just the right position in relation to the sun, with a small deviation meaning a planet unable to support life, a moon that orbits the planet controlling the tide, a rotation that is timed perfectly, an ecosystem that can support life and to top that all off, a race of mammals that somehow evolved to an advanced state without any other animals evolving along side them.

All science has is theories and speculation. The Theory of Evolution for example.

See? I can throw that paper thin logic right back at you but it gets us nowhere. Judging by the tone of your post, having a logical discussion about this with you is pointless. You have already lumped all the religions out there into "Superstition, Karma, Reincarnation". You obviously have a limited knowledge about the religions of the world. Try doing a little bit of research and not regurgitate what you have gleaned from others.

 

[secretweapon]

Padawan, more ammo

Actually its a funny read if you haven't read it yet

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

 

[olylifter420]

pad, so what happens when you die?

If you are so superior and well versed, you should know the answer right?

 

[olylifter420]

I think he hates these people cause of some childhood incident. Why else would you hate something so much

First off Jehovahs Witnesses don't try brain washing you, they don't push religion on people.

In the book of Matthew it clearly says "Go out and make disciples of peoples of all nations".

You want some interesting questions, ask what they think about hell fire (a teaching that has been discussed in many churches). The education thing means very little actually. Personally I only finished high school and immediately started working a full time job as I had zero interest in being in debt and not having a job. Eventually I landed a very good job. Just because you have a level of schooling doesn't make you superior to others.

What made you an Atheist.... I am curious.

 

[Naminator]

I think he hates these people cause of some childhood incident. Why else would you hate something so much

This is perpetuating the myth that organized religion is evil. Many people have an uneventful time when they attend church or religions ceremonies. To be perfectly honest, I believe he was force fed information that didn't answer his questions satisfactorily. This caused him to doubt and despise organized religion. He looks down on anybody he expresses a faith in god because his own grasp of the topic is weak to say the least.

 

[olylifter420]

Im mean we all at one time or another have thought about this... Whether God really exists or doesn't. That is what sets people apart, how strong their faith is in something... My faith in God is like no other, but that does not make me feel superior like this dude does... That is so stupid to say that... What makes him better then anyone else on this planet? Nothing, everyone is equal... Unless you are this guy!!! What he is conveying is that all atheists' are superior to everyone who believes in a religion... Religion is what keeps people going, what motivates people to accomplish something, what allows us to love another human being...

This dude just shows how easily he quits... It is obvious that he might of gone to church as a child, but as soon as he grew up, started blaming things on his faith... That goes to show just what type of person he is, someone who will most likely not put in the work and like to take the easy route.

Oh well, even like that, i am not superior to anyone, on the contrary, everyone is 99.8% identical... SO what makes him superior, i really do not know

This is perpetuating the myth that organized religion is evil. Many people have an uneventful time when they attend church or religions ceremonies. To be perfectly honest, I believe he was force fed information that didn't answer his questions satisfactorily. This caused him to doubt and despise organized religion. He looks down on anybody he expresses a faith in god because his own grasp of the topic is weak to say the least.

 

[Polecat]

I had a JW come to my house. He was the a very nice man. We had a lot of very long talks about the subject on 3 different occasions. No hostility at all. Until he brung his wife with him. Everything was cool till I asked him what happens to the non believers when Christ returns. Of course his answer was they burn in hell for eternity. My reply was "sounds like genocide to me". Sounds like he would make Hitler look like a choir boy. Told him no way could I worship anyone or anything that would do something like that. If that's what they were hoping for then I felt sorry for them. I thought his wife was going to attack me right there. Havent seen them since.

 

[Naminator]

I had a well thought out, coherent post that then got messed up.

Anyways.

No Jehovah's Witness believes in eternal suffering in a fiery pit. In fact nowhere in the Bible does it state if you don't follow Christ you will burn in eternal agony. In the Bible it does make reference to something called Gehenna. This is an actual place, it was located outside of ancient Jerusalem. It was constantly burning and was used as a garbage incinerator of sorts. One thing they did was burn the bodies of criminals or evil doers that had been executed.

Let's examine the doctrine (something introduced and taught by men) of hell fire more closely. If you are a parent imagine taking your child to the kitchen. As punishment for something they did wrong you turned on the stove and pressed there hand against the red hot element. See how horrible and ridiculous that sounds? Now if man is imperfect but God is perfect, how much more so would God not want to torment people in eternal hell fire.

I want to apologize for the words of the people you talked to. They obviously did not know what they where talking about as no Jehovah's Witness would ever say something like that.

 

[olylifter420]

What "bothers" me the most, is that your logical thinking is very off! You should not even be making fun of these people with your method of thinking. What you do not see is that because of their religious beliefs, they do not want to get into an argument with you because they are taught to respect others decisions and choices. You have belittled them to the point where you have made them feel dumb and worthless!! Why? Because your an atheist and you do not believe in such things, and as such, you have the right to be superior to others that do believe in something? Who are you to be superior to anyone in the first place?

Their religion is what stopped them from robbing you at gun point after all your hatred remarks and taking everything you got!!! But, no, you are better then them!
Please bro!

So that was interesting..*

The same guy came over again, his name is Wayne, and he brought another person over, different from the first two, his name is Matt. I was ready, on my porch at a quarter to noon with a world history book with tabs on sections about human origins, the rise and dominance of Christianity, it's influence over the world, etc. I had a bible and I had a note pad with questions I was planning on asking.*

They show up and Wayne gives me two more book type pamphlets titled 'Life - How Did it Get Here? By evolution or by creation?' and 'The Bible - Gods Word or Mans?'! I was tickled fuckin pink when he handed me the first one and had a hard time hiding my grin!*

So at this point it's clear to me that neither one of these guys really understands evolution. Wayne admitted half way through the conversation he didn't complete 10th grade, so he doesn't know a whole lot about the scientific explanations of things, though he assured me Matt does, he's more versed on biblical history.*

Next we started getting into the first book he left for me, this is where it started getting interesting. They didn't bring anything with them I haven't seen before. I felt completely superior and ready for any question they had. Though I've been talking about this stuff online and reading about it and thinking about it for years, this is the first time I've been able to speak to a really religious person face to face without feeling the pressure of the cloak of authority so I felt free to say anything, it was a great feeling.

Part way through, Matt pointed out that he used to be an atheist, back in high school, before the 11th grade, and he just didn't see any comfort or meaning in the 'atheistic worldview', it was "bleak, sad, meaningless". ... This told me right when he said it that he was never actually an atheist, he just never considered the questions which would lead a person to atheism.*

It got to them asking me if I believed in the historical account of Jesus' life, if I thought the man actually existed, I told them I didn't know, they brought up Julius Caesar and gave me the, just about as ancient as he is, reason I should buy Jesus' existence if I accept Caesar existed..

So everything they're trying to tell me and convince me of is on a faulty foundation already..

Also got into how belief isn't a conscious choice that can be made. I can't make myself believe in God any more than I could make myself believe the sky is red... They disagreed...

The thing that bothered me the most was the way they both kinda sold it with "well come on, just try it out, what do you have to lose?" and they weren't interested in my persistence in demands for evidence.*

I can tell it's probably going to remain one sided with no satisfying answers..

 

[thump easy]

I love my church but wen i tied i tied jw come to my door well i have an odor from tym to tym yet i seldom smoke, i fight with the notion of evil and is my garden bad yet i tied sometymes i wish i could welcome people in but i cant. i was cuting one tym and the electrical service was gone my lights dimed the balast poped on and off the wind was crazzy edison was in my back yard n my filter was not pushing i started to cook n swet bullets yet the doorbell rang ow wow its christians id love to pray today but today is not a good day, jw came to my door ow butiful girls i wish i could open the door ladies but today is not a good day ow my father in law after the jw came ow today is not a great day cought my bother in law baked he is cristain ow NO. the rent owner came this day ow NO that day was not my day edison was smelling everthing threw the vents my renter sead it stinks outside like weed i agreed. i had to pray to god PLEASE HELP ME..........

 

[Polecat]

I had a well thought out, coherent post that then got messed up.

Anyways.

No Jehovah's Witness believes in eternal suffering in a fiery pit. In fact nowhere in the Bible does it state if you don't follow Christ you will burn in eternal agony. In the Bible it does make reference to something called Gehenna. This is an actual place, it was located outside of ancient Jerusalem. It was constantly burning and was used as a garbage incinerator of sorts. One thing they did was burn the bodies of criminals or evil doers that had been executed.

Let's examine the doctrine (something introduced and taught by men) of hell fire more closely. If you are a parent imagine taking your child to the kitchen. As punishment for something they did wrong you turned on the stove and pressed there hand against the red hot element. See how horrible and ridiculous that sounds? Now if man is imperfect but God is perfect, how much more so would God not want to torment people in eternal hell fire.

I want to apologize for the words of the people you talked to. They obviously did not know what they where talking about as no Jehovah's Witness would ever say something like that.

You are right he didn't say they would burn in hell. But he damn sure said they would be dead. Your god is pure evil. Follow me or you will suffer eternal damnation. If he is real and I get to met him. I would tell him to kiss my lily white ass.

 

[suTraGrow]

No Jehovah's Witness believes in eternal suffering in a fiery pit.

Its funny your think this LOL. I happen to ask a JW the exact same question about 4 days ago and that was his answer Exact words were " God will turn a blind eye to them and send them to hell to burn for all eternity" so ummm uhhh yeahhh. I believe your theory has been flawed

 

[Naminator]

My God isn't evil.

Lets say you have a pet dog. This dog bites you constantly, destroys everything you own constantly and generally does everything possible to make you angry, despite you giving it a good home and never mistreat it.

Would you keep that dog? You probably wouldn't.

And that is just a mindless animal. Think about humans. God created an earth, man decide they wanted to lead themselves, have shown they can't.

If you choose not to believe in God, then why would you say he is Evil? If I believe in God how can you call him evil? You don't believe in him right?

 

[Naminator]

Its funny your think this LOL. I happen to ask a JW the exact same question about 4 days ago and that was his answer Exact words were " God will turn a blind eye to them and send them to hell to burn for all eternity" so ummm uhhh yeahhh. I believe your theory has been flawed

You positive it was a Jehovahs Witness? Because nowhere in any literature published by Jehovah's Witnesses does it say "If you don't believe in god you will suffer for all eternity".