The Choice I Never Made...

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
dude thats completely rediculous, you have no idea what your talking about. mindphuk. you dont know our god because you you did you would know thats NOT POSSIBLE.
and you dont hear some big loud voice like on the movies. and not everybody who believes recieves msgs from god. all you know is whats right and whats wrong if your thinking some evil then the devil is provoking you. like beardo said when you know its right you know its right. simple as that there are no voices thats just you thinking and whoevers influenceing your thoughts i dont know. it just comes to you and you KNOW its real.
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
i have plenty of reasons to believe. you'v never been to church thats why you'v never heard any testimonies of ppl being healed or saved in many many situations.
and i believe that you athiest are doing the very same thing right here grouping together "a whole host of psychological factors take over and they end up confirming each others flawed conclusions without even realizing it."
someone must have caused alot of harm to your head to lead you to believe anyones beliefs but your own are harmful.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Been to church countless times. Heard more "Jesus has saved me!" stories than I care to remember. None of it impresses me. None of it convinces me.

If you're a Christian, yes, your beliefs do indeed harm society. If you would like examples I'd be happy to give you some.
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
well i guess that was pretty traumatizing experiance for you. bc youve actually gone out of your way.. far far out of your way to try and spread your veiws that you probably all gotfrom the internet..
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
dude thats completely rediculous, you have no idea what your talking about. mindphuk. you dont know our god because you you did you would know thats NOT POSSIBLE.
You don't know me or what I know about your god. I am quite familiar with Scripture, possibly more so than you as I have studied it in Hebrew as a believer as well as at a university from a secular standpoint.
and you dont hear some big loud voice like on the movies. and not everybody who believes recieves msgs from god.
Yet we are only discussing those people that claim to hear god. It's a simple question and neither of you have provided a satisfactory answer. How do you know when it's god and not just some delusion? I don't care HOW they hear, as long as they claim that they KNOW it's god, I can safely say, they have no idea except for some internal feeling.
all you know is whats right and whats wrong if your thinking some evil then the devil is provoking you. like beardo said when you know its right you know its right. simple as that there are no voices thats just you thinking and whoevers influenceing your thoughts i dont know. it just comes to you and you KNOW its real.
So your answer is you know because you know? That's entirely insufficient evidence for any rational thinking individual. Especially since there seems to be strong evidence that people hearing voices may be a completely normal part of the human condition, just like hynogogic sleep paralysis has led people to believe in demons as well as alien abductions. We know our brains fool us all of the time. Just pick up a book on optical illusions. Search youtube for audible illusions. These are simple examples of our brains not working correctly to see or hear reality. We can simulate a god experience in the laboratory with nothing more than magnetic fields. Anyone telling me that they know the voices they hear are actually from god is someone that I believes belongs in a mental hospital.
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
well you must not know shit if you think any christian would believe that god told them too kill a baby.

yes, i know because i know. all god wants you to do is follow his word he doesnt ask for anything elese.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
well you muist not know shit if you think any christian would believe that god told them too kill a baby.
You are simply not understanding what is being said.

Beardo said "I know it's God because I know", you yourself essentailly said the exact same thing, then we said "k, what if that SAME VOICE tells you to kill your kid, will you, being the faithful Christian you claim to be, honor Gods word?", now you come back with "of course not! Who in their right mind would?! That's CRAZY!" - which was exactly what ALL OF US expected you would say. Now you must realize you and beardo are using INCONSISTENT standards when assessing where this voice inside your head is coming from. We all have voices in our heads, there is NO EVIDENCE to support the idea they are coming from outside your own mind. You are simply attributing the things you personally view as 'good' to God and things you view as 'bad' to influences by the devil and that thought experiment proves it.

Do you understand?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
If the voice said "go out and feed the homeless", you would automatically think it's God because you view feeding the homeless as good.

If it said "kill the neighbors puppy!", you'd think it's satan.

Right? Now the question is, how do you KNOW? What questions are you asking to determine that?
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
i have nothing to do with beardo i dont give a fuck.
like i said not everybody "hears" anything from god. messages dont have to be words. it could be a set of events that lead you to receive wisdom from god.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
well you must not know shit if you think any christian would believe that god told them too kill a baby.

yes, i know because i know. all god wants you to do is follow his word he doesnt ask for anything elese.
And you're not paying attention to why that comment proves that you cannot know that a voice is god. You can't have it both ways, either you can intuitively know it's god or it can only be god if the voice is consistent with what you already think to be true about god. You are also claiming to have intimate knowledge about characteristics of god, therefore contradicting he is beyond our understanding. You have acknowledged that it can't be god even though your own bible says he acted that way once before. You are claiming special knowledge, above what most faiths, even amongst the Xians, will claim. You are a gnostic theist in much the same way that a person that denies a god exists is a gnostic atheist. Even most of the atheists on this forum will not even claim to be a strong atheist in this sense.

You can believe what you want all day long but please don't pretend that this is a rational, logical position to take. Many atheists I know went through a personal and spiritual struggle as many of us were once strong believers. You have created a logical fallacy called circular reasoning. You know about god because of what's written in the bible. How do we know what's written in the bible is true? Because when we feel god when we think hard about him. Sometimes we think of him by accident just before something odd happens. So my personal connection with god tells me the bible is true. But then how did you learn about god in the first place? Something can feel real, but without external confirmation, we cannot trust what we think and feel all of the time. Especially so about strong concepts that we hear about often as soon as we learn how to understand language and ask questions. Some of my earliest memories revolve around religious events in my family. God was omnipresent even before I could formulate the man in the clouds that most children first think about. You're kidding yourself if this doesn't affect how you attribute things in life, all of those strange coincidences, that statistically must occur every so often in people's lives.
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
k guys, ill just let yall talk to yourselfs about this cause.. i just realised.. ya'll ARE the devil! hahahahaha.. have badluck with your quest to spread bs ! bye.
 

dababydroman

Well-Known Member
i didnt call any names, and not insulting. i just think that if someone does'nt believe why is it that all they want to do is debate about it? it would seem to me that that person is not even sure them self that there isent "somthing" out there or a higher being of somesort. theres nothing to debate about for me its all a useless 50 pages anyways.
how can you debate about ones belief? and how can one debate about his own belief? anyone who has a religion would never accept anything you say anyways, so its pointless.
only ppl in question of there own beliefs can debate about them. < witch doesnt apply to everything, but to this i believe so.

like i said.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
like i said.
Anyone that doesn't question their own beliefs is a credulous fool.

Personally, I enjoy having my beliefs challenged. Especially when they are as odd as quantum mechanics and general relativity, dark matter, dark energy. extra dimensions. God sure made a complicated multi-dimensional world for just us smart monkeys living only in 3 dimensions of space and 1 of time when the physical matter that we can detect is actually just a small portion of what exists, the rest undetectable to any of our instruments.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
ya'll claim to kno why we have our religions and beliefs right? so why cant you let it go? because you believe in nothing so you dont even believe yourself anymore. go pray to nothing and ask nothing for help, and see what you get. NOTHING!
Both teams pray to God for help before a football game, only one team wins. So apparently even when you pray to God you get nothing 50% of the time. You could find the same rate of prayers being answered by the sun, if both teams prayed to it.

Yeah science is always being proven wrong-Remember when margerine was good for you and butter was bad, then trans fats were bad so margerine had to change?
Science is often proven wrong-God is never disproven.
Science never makes any conclusions without the understanding that new evidence can change things. Science keeps itself open to new evidence, and acknowledges that new evidence could shed new light, as it often does. As humans develop better technology, tools, and understanding we inevitably find evidence we couldn't detect before. Would you rather science make up it's mind about something and then never reconsider it's position again? Once we have an accepted answer (margarine is healthier) and new evidence comes along saying otherwise (butter is healthier) would you prefer science ignore this information for the sake of not admitting it's wrong? This is in fact what religion does, and somehow you are bragging about this? Really?

Your theory of gravity proves God, if God hadn't thought of Gravity we would float away-That's what's so cool about God he thought of everything. Proof is in the Vagina, it's the center of the universe and the holiest of holes. If their is no proof God does not exist why are you hating? God is great, why wouldn't you want to go to heaven? haven't you heard it's really nice their.
My theory of gravity? You do not accept it? I wasn't stating the theory of gravity, but pointing out that gravity is something we know is there, even though it can't be seen. We can measure gravity and predict it's behavior. But here you point out your standard for evidence. To you a vagina is sufficient evidence to believe in a supernatural force that makes no detectable interactions with the world. While this is your prerogative, are you really going to fault others for rejecting it? Really?

Monkeys will steal from eachother and kill eachother and eat other monkeys
I was actually citing our current willingness to justify killings as a problem with the lack of a strict adherance to religious guidelines. and that widespread adoption of aethesim would make things much worse
If this premise were true, we would see a disproportional amount of atheists in prison and on trial for crimes. We would see patterns of neglect, abuse and fraud being predominate among atheists. None of these things are true. Atheists make up less than 1% of prison population but about 93% of the National Academy of Sciences in the US. These are the people who cure your disease, improve your health, and enhance your life. Knowing someone is an atheist tells you precisely what they do not believe, but nothing about what they do believe. Any other attributes are based on bias and misunderstanding.

It's well established God often calls for the killing of mankind and animals, look no further than the great flood. A disproportional number of serial killers suffered from some sort of religious psychosis, or grew up in homes with extremely heavy religious influence. There seems to be a trait among priests to molest little boys, should we assume God is a pedophile? Of course none of these would fairly address the claim of God, and would be red herrings, just like your assertion that atheism is responsible for amoral behavior.
 
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