20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
All good on the western front. Found out today that the 6" Hugo blocks are not quite big enough for our current plant size. I ordered a couple cases of 8" Big Mamma blocks. I got to the op late this morning. It had been about 28 hrs since the last watering. The blocks were very light. The plants were not wilted, but I'm sure they were close. To increase the water capacity of these plants I put 4 " of croutons in 2 gallon pots and placed the Hugo blocks in the pot on top of the croutons. That will get these 30 plants through this harvest. All future plants will be a 4" Delta block on top of an 8" Big Mama block. Believe it or not, the Big Mama block hold almost a full gallon of water.

After that event I spent a few hours removing the fan leaves from my 4 week plants. I know this will rile a few people up LOL. The majority of my growing career I would never cut a leaf off. But, once I saw the results in a friends grow, I'll never go back. Now the plants are just 4-6 long branches with golf ball size buds totally exposed to the light. I end up getting nice marketable buds right down to the lowest ones. It improves air circulation and makes trimming far easier. The overall bud weight of a pruned and un-pruned plant are about the same. But the un-pruned plant ends up with about 25% un-marketable buds. I see this as 25% increase in yield. I kow many people swear by not pruning. And if it works for you...stick with it. But, for those of you that consistantly seek improvement, give it a try on a few plants. I promise you will be happy with the results.
Hey cg i do the same thing at week 4-5 i trim of all the fan leaves, my last on i didnt but i was just lazy. Ive
Not openly said i di it due to the flaming, but its nice to see others that have found that it helps the quality
Better! Just makes sense the plant only uses the energy from them in vertical growth and once they crown off
Theres no need for them.
 

dapio

Well-Known Member
So cg you are saying that all the threads I have read with people replying in disgust of a plant that was pruned to shit is now your key to success? :)
 

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
So cg you are saying that all the threads I have read with people replying in disgust of a plant that was pruned to shit is now your key to success? :)

I don't know about "key to success". It has increased my marketable yield by over 20%. I'm not saying pruning is right or wrong...it just works for me. It also works for the other high wattage commercial and med grows I'm involved in. I would encourage everyone here to try things on their own. Just because a group of people don't agree with a technique doesn't mean it won't work for you. We had a HUGE debate over Bushmaster a few months ago. I use it once in a while with good results. Others claim it's poison.

Pruning tests are so easy to run, it's silly not to at least try it. Nutrient tests are a pain cause you need to mix 2 batches, blah blah blah. But to just set asside a couple plants for pruning is too easy not to try.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
what we are saying is removing fan leave the big one that shade the buds from light at week 4-5 aids in a more useful product not
saying it adds wieght. there is no prunning to shit just a mild hair cut, as for it being the key to success, its more personal pref.
 

TheLastWood

Well-Known Member
Yeah when ppl say "I remove every fan leaf but the ones at the growth tip" that's excessive to me.

Just do it gradually cuttin off a few big fan leaves every once in a while. If you don and you have a bush then the top layer of leaves can pretty much block all the light from the middle of the plant. Especially on tight node stacked indica bushes.

I've also started pruning more because I've been double potting. I veg for half as long now am more efficient.

Its valuable real estate under the hid
 

jyermum

Active Member
CG.. I picked up some bushmaster before they pulled it from the shelves and also grabbed a QT of gravity. You have any experience with the gravity? I haven't needed them yet but it's in the garage fridge for just in case.
 

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
Blah blah prune vs no prune too many replies. Sorry everybody above.

Hey CG, try removing those leaves as soon as they're born, as apposed to developed fan leaves.
Predetermine which leaves will be removed, and take them out the moment they've opened up.
This should make the corresponding branch schwarzenager (Holy fuck, THC+Spelling+Wierd austrian body buildin' terminatin' governator doesn't work.)
sized.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
the plant needs those leaves for vertical growth, but when it crowns off in flower around week 4 to 5 there not needed, so taking them
off early would stunt growth.
 

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
Wow...I've never seen so many pruners in one place. Should we have a secret handshake?

My method is more of gradual accelerating technique. My goal is simply to allow light down to my target growth are throughout the life of the plant. I may take 1 or 2 of the BIG upper fan leaves in veg...maybe. If there's one leaf thats shading 2 or 3 shoots, I figure those shoots are more important than one leaf. Once in bloom, before the stretch is complete I will just take 1 or 2 big uppers...just like in veg. After the stretch I take the plant off the tray to a table and remove all lower growth that's not going to be worth a shit. I may also remove some middle smaller shoots togive the primary branches ample room. This is the when I'm deciding which branches are going to be the winners, and which are just going into the trash. At this time I do a pretty good fan leaf removal. All the BIG leaves in the upper third of middle of the plant go. I leave the outside leaves as long as they're not hanging out so far as to shade the plant next door. Now, all through the bloom stage, as the plants become bushy, I keep thinning the upper 2/3's...just a few leaves at a time. About week 5 I go wholesale slaughter. Every fan leaf with an exposed stem goes. I'm left with just branches covered (hopefully) with golf ball sized buds and bud leaves.

Essentially, through the bloom phase, I'm thinning the plant at the same speed it is getting bushy. It's just that I'm thinning the upper portion, while the plant gets bushy through its whole height. If I've done my job right, the entire plant is recieving light, but very little light is hitting the table. To me, this is the best way to take advantage of the height of the plant. Our productive growing area is length x width x height. We run 1000 watt lights because they provide the most height of productive growing area. I like a minimum of 24" of marketable buds on the plant...preferably more. The only way I've found to get that is to prune. If I leave my plants un pruned, they end up so bushy that my productive height is about 12" - 16" max. The bottom 8" - 12" do not recieve enough light in early/mid bloom to generate bud size, and in late bloom to fully ripen and densify. I've found that if I prune too late, the lower buds may ripen and densify, but lack size due to insufficient light in early/mid bloom.

I think that any pruning regime should start with a goal. Again, my goal is to allow light into the lower levels of the plant without letting that light hit the table. I've always felt that the first rule of canopy shape in an indoor grow is for as little light to hit the tray as possible. Any light hitting the tray is wasted. I started following the "no light on the tray rule" years before I started pruning. Yes, I was using all my light, but much of it was being spent growing small and under developed buds. Now, if I've pruned right, every single bud grown is of marketable size, ripeness, and density. To date, this has never happened. LOL. But, there are very few buds that go into the keif making pile.

So there it is. How I prune and why. I'd like to hear other folk's pruning techniques and goals.

The next conversation we all should have along this line is plant density and training. To me, getting that canopy shape and density just right is the key to large yields indoors. It's also the most challenging aspect of growing for me. Everything else is pretty easy. Once you have your nutes, lights, atmosphere, and cloning dialed in, there's not much to it. But, keeping that plant density and canopy shape perfect takes alot of time, concentration, and record keeping on every crop. This is the shit that has the most impact on my yield. One little mistake on this front always costs me weight: Plants too big, too small. Too many per sq ft...to few. Poor pruning. Lights too high...too low. This is where the work is...and also where the money is made.

So, gang. Let's hear it. Tell us about your canopy.
 

TheLastWood

Well-Known Member
I used to lst but all those damn strings get in the way when I water.

Now I supercrop. Just as effective, actually more. When the "knuckle" hardens up it turns to bark and its better for supporting the weight of buds. And its instant. As the plant heals it starts growing upwards again and I do it agaain.

I also have a way to get 4 or 2 main tops without toping. Just supercrop right above a node with a 1-3" "clone" growing. Cut 1 clone of 1 side and leave 1. Bend the main stock away from the remaining "clone". The "clone" should be the highest poin on the plant now and will turn into a dominant cola. The main stalk will grow up again and you will have 2.

If the nodes under the node you just made dominant are close enough then they will also grow up at an accelerated rate from the auxin boost and you will have 4 main branches.

Top em all or just 2 ofyour new main branches and then flower.

Or do 2 cola method, then double pot and flower which is what I do now.
 

drgreentm

Well-Known Member
Wow...I've never seen so many pruners in one place. Should we have a secret handshake?

My method is more of gradual accelerating technique. My goal is simply to allow light down to my target growth are throughout the life of the plant. I may take 1 or 2 of the BIG upper fan leaves in veg...maybe. If there's one leaf thats shading 2 or 3 shoots, I figure those shoots are more important than one leaf. Once in bloom, before the stretch is complete I will just take 1 or 2 big uppers...just like in veg. After the stretch I take the plant off the tray to a table and remove all lower growth that's not going to be worth a shit. I may also remove some middle smaller shoots togive the primary branches ample room. This is the when I'm deciding which branches are going to be the winners, and which are just going into the trash. At this time I do a pretty good fan leaf removal. All the BIG leaves in the upper third of middle of the plant go. I leave the outside leaves as long as they're not hanging out so far as to shade the plant next door. Now, all through the bloom stage, as the plants become bushy, I keep thinning the upper 2/3's...just a few leaves at a time. About week 5 I go wholesale slaughter. Every fan leaf with an exposed stem goes. I'm left with just branches covered (hopefully) with golf ball sized buds and bud leaves.

Essentially, through the bloom phase, I'm thinning the plant at the same speed it is getting bushy. It's just that I'm thinning the upper portion, while the plant gets bushy through its whole height. If I've done my job right, the entire plant is recieving light, but very little light is hitting the table. To me, this is the best way to take advantage of the height of the plant. Our productive growing area is length x width x height. We run 1000 watt lights because they provide the most height of productive growing area. I like a minimum of 24" of marketable buds on the plant...preferably more. The only way I've found to get that is to prune. If I leave my plants un pruned, they end up so bushy that my productive height is about 12" - 16" max. The bottom 8" - 12" do not recieve enough light in early/mid bloom to generate bud size, and in late bloom to fully ripen and densify. I've found that if I prune too late, the lower buds may ripen and densify, but lack size due to insufficient light in early/mid bloom.

I think that any pruning regime should start with a goal. Again, my goal is to allow light into the lower levels of the plant without letting that light hit the table. I've always felt that the first rule of canopy shape in an indoor grow is for as little light to hit the tray as possible. Any light hitting the tray is wasted. I started following the "no light on the tray rule" years before I started pruning. Yes, I was using all my light, but much of it was being spent growing small and under developed buds. Now, if I've pruned right, every single bud grown is of marketable size, ripeness, and density. To date, this has never happened. LOL. But, there are very few buds that go into the keif making pile.

So there it is. How I prune and why. I'd like to hear other folk's pruning techniques and goals.

The next conversation we all should have along this line is plant density and training. To me, getting that canopy shape and density just right is the key to large yields indoors. It's also the most challenging aspect of growing for me. Everything else is pretty easy. Once you have your nutes, lights, atmosphere, and cloning dialed in, there's not much to it. But, keeping that plant density and canopy shape perfect takes alot of time, concentration, and record keeping on every crop. This is the shit that has the most impact on my yield. One little mistake on this front always costs me weight: Plants too big, too small. Too many per sq ft...to few. Poor pruning. Lights too high...too low. This is where the work is...and also where the money is made.

So, gang. Let's hear it. Tell us about your canopy.
hey CG great read as usual buddy, i am running the E&G like hellraizor and running the bubba as well. i had took your advice on them last round (topped and vegged to 18") with great results (roughly 3 oz's a plant) now on this run i have supercropped along with defoliating the centers to allow more light to the lower mid section and they are looking great at this point. wont know for sure for another 5 weeks but its looking much better than the last run, but we will see you never know until it finally hits the scale. i have turned these plants into some pretty good yielders with pruning and training, i think pruning and training is all strain dependent and learning your strain and what it requires (weather that be the less conventional approach or not) is the key to having success with any mehtod;)
 

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
I used to lst but all those damn strings get in the way when I water.

Now I supercrop. Just as effective, actually more. When the "knuckle" hardens up it turns to bark and its better for supporting the weight of buds. And its instant. As the plant heals it starts growing upwards again and I do it agaain.

I also have a way to get 4 or 2 main tops without toping. Just supercrop right above a node with a 1-3" "clone" growing. Cut 1 clone of 1 side and leave 1. Bend the main stock away from the remaining "clone". The "clone" should be the highest poin on the plant now and will turn into a dominant cola. The main stalk will grow up again and you will have 2.

If the nodes under the node you just made dominant are close enough then they will also grow up at an accelerated rate from the auxin boost and you will have 4 main branches.

Top em all or just 2 ofyour new main branches and then flower.

Or do 2 cola method, then double pot and flower which is what I do now.
Wood,

It's clear that you have an intimate knowledge of your plants that could never be taught. I have noticed too that supercropping gives you a very sturdy plant. After you've bent, broke, snapped, and cipped, do you remove some of the lower shoots that appear as a response to the training?
 

Joedank

Well-Known Member
greenhouse week7 flower 154.jpg
for me it depends on the light source . indoors i thin alittle less than you CG but same general idea light to lowers trim up lower 6-10 inches ... in the greenhouse i thin slowly hitting hard a week six, outside i spot thin and spread as much as the branches allow... i like your style CGbongsmilie
greenhouse week8 074.jpggreenhouse week7 flower 122.jpg
 

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
hey CG great read as usual buddy, i am running the E&G like hellraizor and running the bubba as well. i had took your advice on them last round (topped and vegged to 18") with great results (roughly 3 oz's a plant) now on this run i have supercropped along with defoliating the centers to allow more light to the lower mid section and they are looking great at this point. wont know for sure for another 5 weeks but its looking much better than the last run, but we will see you never know until it finally hits the scale. i have turned these plants into some pretty good yielders with pruning and training, i think pruning and training is all strain dependent and learning your strain and what it requires (weather that be the less conventional approach or not) is the key to having success with any mehtod;)

3 Ozs. is our goal, as well. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I'm better with around 30 - 3 oz. plants per tray, or 45 2 oz plants. Typicall it's easier for me to get weight through more, smaller plants. But, I'm on this trip about using my vertical space.

You hit the nail on the head with pruning success being strain dependant...and pheno withing the strain dependant. "all bubbas are not created equal".
 

kevin murphy

New Member
hope all goin well for ya mate just put my new update on..if you ever want to see pics just hity my signature on bottom of post and it will take you the todays pics..
 

drgreentm

Well-Known Member
3 Ozs. is our goal, as well. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I'm better with around 30 - 3 oz. plants per tray, or 45 2 oz plants. Typicall it's easier for me to get weight through more, smaller plants. But, I'm on this trip about using my vertical space.

You hit the nail on the head with pruning success being strain dependant...and pheno withing the strain dependant. "all bubbas are not created equal".
3 oz's was what i got last time around and i have been vegging for a while prably like 4+ weeks, this is where the supercropping comes in handy so i dont end up with tall plants, i shape and mold them to fit them where i need them to be. im very happy with these bubba's the final product is just that good. de foliating the centers has really seemed to help allot this round as all the flowers seem to be the same in size and density even for 4 weeks in. anyway i will stop rambling now lol, the op looks great and thanks for all the pricless help/knowledge you have given, if you get a chance stop by the and check out the grow.
 

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
cg, how long do you veg for to hit 3oz mark?
I'd say around 4 weeks from when the rooted cut goes into the 4" block. That would include one topping about a week into veg. There's a real "sweet spot" on veg time for us. Too little and the plant only throws about 1.5 ozs. I think the roots need X amount of time to be fully developed. Just a little too much time and the plant gets way too big...crowding out the neighbors and causing me to throw away plants for the sake of proper spacing. I hate that.

Today I went through all 50 plants on tray #1, final pruning, shuffling, and respacing. I noticed that about 1/3 of the plants did not get enough veg. They're the same height as the others, but the buds are underdeveloped and yield is going to suffer. About 10 of the plants are insanely heavy. I think these little fat fuckers are going to throw close to 4ozs. For the life of me I can't figure out what got the big ones so big and the small ones so small. The plants are consistantly moved about in bloom for equal light. Whatever it was, I think it occured in veg. I've notice the fat plants seemed better from about week 2 in bloom. I'm going to start being more diligent in veg getting the plants under the best light ( I have 6 fucking 1000 watt lights in veg...I should be able to provide great lighting). Sometimes I get lazy in veg...spending my time in the bloom room. This is stupid because I know that veg is what determines your yield potential. 20+ years in this racket and still fucking up.
 

TheLastWood

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do remove lower small twigs and buds.

Another thing I do Is supercrop all of my "tops" 1 node below the top of the shortest top". 1 node low is perfect cuz when the branch starts growing back up they will all be level with the lowest top, giving me a flat top and a wider diameter.

I'm also recently getting away from bigger bushes and doing more smaller plants. There seems to be a point of diminishing returns on veging. Like past 4-5 weeks its not as efficient as double potting with a 2-3 week veg. I don't use 1000 watters

I have 2x400 watt ceramic metal halide side by side in a 4x6 room.
 

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do remove lower small twigs and buds.

Another thing I do Is supercrop all of my "tops" 1 node below the top of the shortest top". 1 node low is perfect cuz when the branch starts growing back up they will all be level with the lowest top, giving me a flat top and a wider diameter.

I'm also recently getting away from bigger bushes and doing more smaller plants. There seems to be a point of diminishing returns on veging. Like past 4-5 weeks its not as efficient as double potting with a 2-3 week veg. I don't use 1000 watters

I have 2x400 watt ceramic metal halide side by side in a 4x6 room.
What kind of yield are you pulling from that, if you don't mind? I ask because I'm adding another room about that size and I'm going back and forth about whether to do 400 cmh's (already have one setup), or just go with the 600's I was planning on.
 
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