What are the negatives of Atheism?

sen.c

Active Member
Stalin wanted to discourage competition. Again, you can't link anything Stalin did directly with atheism.
Well by deffinition Atheism is defined as believeing there is no God, or there is no diety. I am sure that if Stalin were in fact a true believer in God he would not have committed the atrocities
against his people that he did.

Now as far as the deffinition goes I am using Merriam Webster as reference, the problem is most atheists now like to say atheism is just the lack of belief in whatever they feel it may apply to at the time. I am not saying that as trying to speak for everyone but many I have had the pleasure of dialogue with that is how they use it. True atheists believe there is no God or deity and that is it, but there are other "neuvo" atheists that spin it to mean whatever they want as a cop out so they don't have to feel that they may be held accountable for whatever suits their needs at the time.

IMHO

When reason and rationality fail, when evidence is stacked against you, when you have no defense left in your arsenal, the only thing left to do is grief and troll and cause so much bother that the other side just quits. It is the refuge of a desperately ignorant mind, and the tactic currently being employed by oly. This is what we see from someone who is more interested in what they believe than they are the truth,( i.e they can't handle the truth) The truth becomes contemptible, the belief becomes authoritative, and they then feel justified in using whatever tactics and tricks necessary to give them the appearance of validity, which often amounts to simply exasperating the opposition into silence. This is the very demonstration of Dogma, and I think nothing better proves our point about the dangers of religion destroying the rational mind than oly's posts.
No argument here, just a friendly reminder that maybe the other side of the fence feels the same way about the atheist view.

This thread was loaded from the begining, it will always be a great divide and nothing will come of all this back and forth. We won't change our belief system just as you won't change yours. Are any of us wrong for that, no.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Well by deffinition Atheism is defined as believeing there is no God, or there is no diety. I am sure that if Stalin were in fact a true believer in God he would not have committed the atrocities
against his people that he did.

Now as far as the deffinition goes I am using Merriam Webster as reference, the problem is most atheists now like to say atheism is just the lack of belief in whatever they feel it may apply to at the time. I am not saying that as trying to speak for everyone but many I have had the pleasure of dialogue with that is how they use it. True atheists believe there is no God or deity and that is it, but there are other "neuvo" atheists that spin it to mean whatever they want as a cop out so they don't have to feel that they may be held accountable for whatever suits their needs at the time.

IMHO

Definition of ATHEISM

1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Why do you suppose Webster's allows for two entries here? Is it because there is a distinction between disbelief (not being convinced) and and asserting there is no deity? As I have explained in this thread and in other directly to you, when someone says there is no god they do so outside of and in addition to atheism.

What you seem to be doing is saying "I have a problem with position B", listening to people explain that they take position A, and then saying "position A doesn't really exist therefore I can continue to attack you as if you take position B". The only way your post makes sense is if you ignore the 'no true Scotsman' and strawman fallacies, which has been pointed out to you many times. Either you don't understand, and considering that you often speak with wit and sophistication I doubt this is the case, or you are purposely using invalid debate tactics to lend justification to a baseless assertion.

Atheists simply observe that the Abrahamic God has as much empirical validity as Santa Clause. We observe that the holy books attesting to his existence bear every indication of being fabricated by ignorant mortals. We observe that belief in God seems to be predicated more so on where you live and what time period you were born than on the belief showing merit. This is all that is needed to judge that Christianity and the like is a cult peddling mythical history.
 

sen.c

Active Member
Why do you suppose Webster's allows for two entries here? Is it because there is a distinction between disbelief (not being convinced) and and asserting there is no deity? As I have explained in this thread and in other directly to you, when someone says there is no god they do so outside of and in addition to atheism.

What you seem to be doing is saying "I have a problem with position B", listening to people explain that they take position A, and then saying "position B doesn't really exist therefore I can continue to attack you as if you take position B". The only way your post makes sense is if you ignore the 'no true Scotsman' and strawman fallacies, which has been pointed out to you many times. Either you don't understand, and considering that you often speak with wit and sophistication I doubt this is the case, or you are purposely using invalid debate tactics to lend justification to a baseless assertion.
Not here to fight just pointing out a few things. Atheism in it truest form is in fact the disbelief of God. Penn Jillett is one of the most outspoken Atheists out there and what will he say there is no God. As far as the "No True Scotsman" and "Strawman Fallacies" go you are exactly right I ignore them only after listening to them so let's make that clear.

Also at no time in my statement above did I refer directly to you or anyone else in this thread directly by name and I made it a point not to just to see who came back at me as if I did. I do not have a problem if you subscribe to "A" or "B" that is your right, I am just speaking in generalities and from personal experience outside of this forum.

In closing I am not using invalid debate tactics to lend justification to a baseless assertion as you stated but rather just putting the info out there for review. No need to take offense, you have the right to remain a sceptic until the burden of proof meets your requirements just as I do on issues.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Not here to fight just pointing out a few things. Atheism in it truest form is in fact the disbelief of God. Penn Jillett is one of the most outspoken Atheists out there and what will he say there is no God. As far as the "No True Scotsman" and "Strawman Fallacies" go you are exactly right I ignore them only after listening to them so let's make that clear.
So remaining unconvinced of Bigfoot, in it's truest form, is asserting that Bigfoot does not exist? If I speak the loudest about Bigfoot's non-existence, I change the very meaning of the word 'unconvinced'? How convenient for you to be able to ignore fallacies, it complements your logic well.

If your remarks are aimed at those claiming no god, then fine. I have problems with those people's logic as well. Just as long as you are not trying to contrive that every atheistic stance boils down to claiming there is no god, which you are.
 

sen.c

Active Member
So remaining unconvinced of Bigfoot, in it's truest form, is asserting that Bigfoot does not exist?
Nope, he very well could exsist. The question is as I stated above does the burden of proof required for you to acknowledge that he indeed does exsist meet your requirements? The answer is really simple, your burden of proof is met or it isn't very black and white.

If I speak the loudest about Bigfoot's non-existence, I change the very meaning of the word 'unconvinced'?
No, maybe in your own mind but that doesn't matter to the real world because the deffinition of "unconvinced" remains the same whether you see it that way or not.

How convenient for you to be able to ignore fallacies, it complements your logic well.
Not really that I ignore them they got equal play time I just choose not to prescribe to them after watching them and making my own decision based on my required burden of proof.

If your remarks are aimed at those claiming no god, then fine. I have problems with those people's logic as well. Just as long as you are not trying to contrive that every atheistic stance boils down to claiming there is no god, which you are.
Like I said in my first post on this I spoke directly to no one particular person in this thread, if you feel singled out I am sorry but that wasn't the intention and that also was stated before yet you still come back at me as if I am speaking directly to you.

So that there is no misunderstanding at the core Atheism is the act of believing in NO Diety which God is considered a diety. I can't stand Wikipedia but alot of people on here use it as if were law so here we go.
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]


The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century.[7]
Atheists tend to be skeptical of supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Atheists have offered various rationales for not believing in any deity. These include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies,[8][9] there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[10]

Makes no sense to me that one can be Atheist but be spiritual, seems to me the Atheists can't even agree on what is acceptable as Atheism
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Not here to fight just pointing out a few things.
Yet you point out things you know are going to be controversial...
Atheism in it truest form is in fact the disbelief of God.
No, the truest form is the rejection of theistic claims. This is obvious by just breaking down the word.
Penn Jillett is one of the most outspoken Atheists out there and what will he say there is no God.
No he doesn't. He ALWAYS says he doesn't know. Show me ONE link to Penn saying that he knows there is no god.

[video=youtube;swkAGExZCII]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkAGExZCII[/video]

[video=youtube;JNop4Cw8hQk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNop4Cw8hQk[/video]
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Like I said in my first post on this I spoke directly to no one particular person in this thread, if you feel singled out I am sorry but that wasn't the intention and that also was stated before yet you still come back at me as if I am speaking directly to you.
This is a tactic I've seen you use several times before. Suggesting that opposition just stay quiet or give up, in this case suggesting my response is somehow unjust or an attack simply because you weren't speaking directly to me. No matter who you were speaking to, the lack of intellectual merit can still be pointed out.

Makes no sense to me that one can be Atheist but be spiritual, seems to me the Atheists can't even agree on what is acceptable as Atheism
I don't see any atheist here squabbling about what atheism means. Your own examples of definitions make it pretty clear. Since atheism is simply the lack of a belief, and indicates nothing about what a person might believe, requires a person to make no assertions, there can be no set ideology or behaviors unique to atheism. Atheism is a single attribute that neither indicates nor implies any others.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
So atheism is a lack of belief in a god or diety. Religious people claim there is a god, therefore atheists believe we have to prove it to them. Atheists do a good on not stating what they do follow to control their morals. If we found that out then we would be able to point out everyone's flaws. But they did not state their beliefs so we can't point out any if their flaws. Just to clarify us religious people can point out the flaws of science or society. Which is what I assume you atheists believe and follow.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.



Don't respond to this, I'm gonna post it on my thread so I don't ruin this thread with my statement. Then over on my thread you can respond to it.
 

sen.c

Active Member
I don't see any atheist here squabbling about what atheism means. Your own examples of definitions make it pretty clear. Since atheism is simply the lack of a belief, and indicates nothing about what a person might believe, requires a person to make no assertions,
That is because it means something different to every Atheist. The definition clearly states that Atheism is the belief in no deity, again no deity. It also says later that the meaning was narrowed, I wonder why?

No, the truest form is the rejection of theistic claims. This is obvious by just breaking down the word.
Sorry, Fail......
Theism is the belief in a deity and Athesim is the belief in NO DEITY, you can mix words and spin stuff all you want but the fact remains that true atheists of the 18 century would consider you something other than an Atheist.

No he doesn't. He ALWAYS says he doesn't know. Show me ONE link to Penn saying that he knows there is no god.
Sorry again, Fail..............
He says it all the time, He wrote a Book titled "GOD, NO" how else do you plan to spin this?
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
That is because it means something different to every Atheist. The definition clearly states that Atheism is the belief in no deity, again no deity. It also says later that the meaning was narrowed, I wonder why?
It seems to be referring to a narrow minded way to view atheism, not that the definition was narrowed. But this is semantics. I do not claim the non existence of a deity. I will take the common ground offered and accept that you are not speaking about my position. So long as you don't then erode my position to be different than what it is, however indirectly.


Sorry again, Fail..............
He says it all the time, He wrote a Book titled "GOD, NO" how else do you plan to spin this?
Sen is right here about Penns opinion. What he is not right about is that Penn represents atheism when he says this. Am I committing the 'no true atheist' fallacy? Not in this case, because this is what Penn actually says.

I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy
He makes many good points in that article, including that his belief in no god is outside of atheism, and amounts to faith.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Just like that? So for not believing in something that was designed to be untestable in any way, we deserve to be tortured and tormented for ETERNITY?

Do you honestly think that a being that you guys claim to be benevolent, a being that's all good in every conceivable way would be the mind behind such a system?
[video=youtube;6gnQz32c5EA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA[/video]
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
n. What he is not right about is that Penn represents atheism when he says this

Funny, because the inquistioners and retarded "religious nut jobs" do not represent believers either, yet you all always use that connection. Only you atheists can use that tactic, how nice of you all
 

Morgan Lynn

Active Member
Do you think atheism was to blame for the problems you mentioned in another thread?
No? How could that be possible?

Religion talk burns me out. I really can't stand it.

I am what I am. You are what you are. Don't infringe on my rights and I wont infringe on yours. The end.
 

sen.c

Active Member
actually i would love if you put that in your sig. maybe it would remind you of the real definition
Nope, the deffinition in it's entirety was posted but that's not good enough for you. Are you a DJ on the side because you have a heck of a spin game?

Theism and Atheism are exact opposites of each other and if you look into the history of the begining of the Athiest emergence it was simply the fact that did not believe in God or a Deity plain and simple.


No? How could that be possible?

Religion talk burns me out. I really can't stand it.

I am what I am. You are what you are. Don't infringe on my rights and I wont infringe on yours. The end.
There you go again, if your statement is true then why even bother to post and participate in this thread? You had the right not to get involved in this thread but you did and now you want
to tell people not to infringe on your rights. You made the decision to enter into dialogue about something you say burns you out and you had the right to but others in the thread have the right
to rebuttal and you don't like it. Maybe you should do a better job of picking threads to get involved in if you really can't stand them, THE END.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Another great thread gone to be forgotten.

Luger, you still havnt answered my question.

Why do you want to get rid of believers and have so muvh hate towards us, when a few months ago, you were defending muslims in new york and around the US?

I Think you are a muslim who is really confused and dont know what you want.

Its alright man,God loves us all.
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
Nope, the deffinition in it's entirety was posted but that's not good enough for you. Are you a DJ on the side because you have a heck of a spin game?

Theism and Atheism are exact opposites of each other and if you look into the history of the begining of the Athiest emergence it was simply the fact that did not believe in God or a Deity plain and simple.
right.... so why are you arguing that we believe there is no god?
im actually not sure what someone who believes there is no god is called. im thinkin either nontheist, untheist, contratheist or ditheist
http://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/prefixes.htm
 
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