Illumination
New Member
That makes me know it is bullshit right there
So much bad advice, who can give rep
- Thread starter 303
- Start date
CR500ROOST
Well-Known Member
how about you stop trippen about rep,if you know your shit then good, you dont need rep to prove shit.
Dankster4Life
Well-Known Member
The more rep you have,the more trics you'll have
I swear.....i been watchin my rep and my trics,they grow together.
I swear.....i been watchin my rep and my trics,they grow together.
kmksrh21
Well-Known Member
^NoR*CaL@420
Well-Known Member
RIU all the way. i wont even look for something beter
Dankster4Life
Well-Known Member
Bwpz
Well-Known Member
So you're saying Molasses is bullshit just because he said it? He also said plants need Oxygen to survive, how about that one? Just because he's a 'quack' doesn't mean he doesn't provide good information...
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Molasses is Bullshit because of what's actually in it. Or rather, the lack of what's in it.
- Calcium ----- .205%
- Iron ---------- .0047%
- Magnesium --- .242%
- Phosphorus -- .031%
- Potassium --- 1.464%
- Sodium ------ .037%
- Zinc -------- .0003%
- Copper ------ .0005%
- Manganese --- .0015%
- Selenium ---- .0178%
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Molasses to neutralize Chlorine and Chloramines in tap water?
From T Wilson of microbeorganics.com
"1/ ascorbic acid for chloramines or chlorine; 3 grams in 100 gallons will
treat up to 3PPM.
2/ I found your chlorine test interesting and decided to do the same to
put my arguement that reducing sugars in the molasses would handle the
chlorine and chloramine.
Using a similar test strip that tests for both free and total
chlorine, I found my city water to have 0.5ppm free and 1.5 ppm of
free and total chlorine,respectively. Testing 1 gal and 5 gal of city
water, I added 1/4 teaspoon of molasses to each. The reaction was not
instantaneous but the kinetics were faster than I would have guessed.
The one gallon reaction showed no dectable chlorine of either type
withing 3 minutes. At 5 gallons, I obtained the same result within 20
minutes.
Chlorine levels are regulated a 4 ppm maximum
4 ppm = 4mg/l
Chloramine concentrations are expressed as chlorine equivalents, so one uses the molecular weight of chlorine for calculations.
One molecule of reducing sugar will react with one molecule of chlorine.
Therefore, on a weight basis, one needs 4mg/l *(the molecular weight of the reducing sugar/the molecular weight of chlorine)/ (the decimal fraction of reducing sugar in your molasses)
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 15% to 50% for the percent reducing sugar in molasses
The reducing sugars are going to be a mixture of mono and disaccharides. Molecular weights = 180 and 342, respectively
Chlorine molecular weight =70
Therefore, worst case, one needs 4*(342/70)/.15 =130mg/L molasses
I saw a recipe by Elaine that calls for 1 oz molasses in 5 gallons. That’s 1 part in 640 or 1563 ppm .
So, worse case you have a 12 fold excess.
Run these same numbers for pure glucose (a reducing monosaccharide) and you end up needing 10ppm glucose. When i need dilution water for spraying, I use a 20-30 ppm glucose and let it sit overnight.
I continue to be perplexed by the amount of hand wringing that
goes on over chlorine and chloramine. These both function as
oxidizing agents and, as such, are destroyed by reducing agents.
Cane molasses runs at 15-20% reducing sugar.
Regulations allow a maximum of 4ppm chlorine, expressed as Cl2.
Allowing for the molecular weight difference between Cl2 the
reducing sugars in molasses, you would need 10ppm reducing sugar to
react with the chlorine.
At 15% reducing sugar, you need 66ppm molasses.
I put my molasses in first, give it some time to react and don't
worry."
From T Wilson of microbeorganics.com
"1/ ascorbic acid for chloramines or chlorine; 3 grams in 100 gallons will
treat up to 3PPM.
2/ I found your chlorine test interesting and decided to do the same to
put my arguement that reducing sugars in the molasses would handle the
chlorine and chloramine.
Using a similar test strip that tests for both free and total
chlorine, I found my city water to have 0.5ppm free and 1.5 ppm of
free and total chlorine,respectively. Testing 1 gal and 5 gal of city
water, I added 1/4 teaspoon of molasses to each. The reaction was not
instantaneous but the kinetics were faster than I would have guessed.
The one gallon reaction showed no dectable chlorine of either type
withing 3 minutes. At 5 gallons, I obtained the same result within 20
minutes.
Chlorine levels are regulated a 4 ppm maximum
4 ppm = 4mg/l
Chloramine concentrations are expressed as chlorine equivalents, so one uses the molecular weight of chlorine for calculations.
One molecule of reducing sugar will react with one molecule of chlorine.
Therefore, on a weight basis, one needs 4mg/l *(the molecular weight of the reducing sugar/the molecular weight of chlorine)/ (the decimal fraction of reducing sugar in your molasses)
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 15% to 50% for the percent reducing sugar in molasses
The reducing sugars are going to be a mixture of mono and disaccharides. Molecular weights = 180 and 342, respectively
Chlorine molecular weight =70
Therefore, worst case, one needs 4*(342/70)/.15 =130mg/L molasses
I saw a recipe by Elaine that calls for 1 oz molasses in 5 gallons. That’s 1 part in 640 or 1563 ppm .
So, worse case you have a 12 fold excess.
Run these same numbers for pure glucose (a reducing monosaccharide) and you end up needing 10ppm glucose. When i need dilution water for spraying, I use a 20-30 ppm glucose and let it sit overnight.
I continue to be perplexed by the amount of hand wringing that
goes on over chlorine and chloramine. These both function as
oxidizing agents and, as such, are destroyed by reducing agents.
Cane molasses runs at 15-20% reducing sugar.
Regulations allow a maximum of 4ppm chlorine, expressed as Cl2.
Allowing for the molecular weight difference between Cl2 the
reducing sugars in molasses, you would need 10ppm reducing sugar to
react with the chlorine.
At 15% reducing sugar, you need 66ppm molasses.
I put my molasses in first, give it some time to react and don't
worry."
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
post edit: homebrewer you may want to rethink your position on the nutes in molasses. see ppm calculations below for 1 tablespoon per gallon.
Molasses
Molasses is a syrupy, thick juice created by the processing of either sugar beets or the sugar cane plant. Depending on the definition used, Sweet Sorghum also qualifies as a molasses, although technically it’s a thickened syrup more akin to Maple Syrup than to molasses. The grade and type of molasses depends on the maturity of the sugar cane or beet and the method of extraction. The different molasses’ have names like: first molasses, second molasses, unsulphured molasses, sulphured molasses, and blackstrap molasses. For gardeners the sweet syrup can work as a carbohydrate source to feed and stimulate microorganisms. And, because molasses (average NPK 1-0-5) contains potash, sulfur, and many trace minerals, it can serve as a nutritious soil amendment. Molasses is also an excellent chelating agent
Several grades and types of molasses are produced by sugar cane processing. First the plants are harvested and stripped of their leaves, and then the sugar cane is usually crushed or mashed to extract it’s sugary juice. Sugar manufacturing begins by boiling cane juice until it reaches the proper consistency, it is then processed to extract sugar. This first boiling and processing produces what is called first molasses, this has the highest sugar content of the molasses because relatively little sugar has been extracted from the juice. Green (unripe) sugar cane that has been treated with sulphur fumes during sugar extraction produces sulphured molasses. The juice of sun-ripened cane which has been clarified and concentrated produces unsulphured molasses. Another boiling and sugar extraction produces second molasses which has a slight bitter tinge to its taste.
Further rounds of processing and boiling yield dark colored blackstrap molasses, which is the most nutritionally valuable of the various types of molasses. It is commonly used as a sweetner in the manufacture of cattle and other animal feeds, and is even sold as a human health supplement. Any kind of molasses will work to provide benefit for soil and growing plants, but blackstrap molasses is the best choice because it contains the greatest concentration of sulfur, iron and micronutrients from the original cane material. Dry molasses is something different still. It’s not exactly just dried molasses either, it’s molasses sprayed on grain residue which acts as a “carrier”.
wholesome sweeteners organic molasses
per 1 tablespoon/22 g, in 1 gallon of water/3.785 liters:
potassium: 730 mg/~20% of 3500 mg dv for k/730/3.785=192.86 ppm
calcium: 115 mg/~10% of 1000 mg dv for ca/115/3.785=30.38 ppm
magnesium: 8% of 400 mg dv for mg/.08*400=32/3.785=8.4 ppm
iron: 15% of 18 mg dv for fe/.15*18=2.7/3.785=0.71 ppm
vitamin b6: 10% of 2.0 mg dv for vit b6/2*.1=.2/3.785=.05 ppm
sugars: 10g
total carbohydrates: 14g
In addition to sugars, molasses contains significant amounts of potash, sulfur, and a variety of micronutrients. Because molasses is derived from plants, and because the manufacturing processes that create it remove mostly sugars, the majority of the mineral nutrients that were contained in the original sugar cane or sugar beet are still present in molasses. This is a critical factor because a balanced supply of mineral nutrients is essential for those “beneficial beasties” to survive and thrive. That’s one of the secrets we’ve discovered to really successful organic gardening, the micronutrients found in organic amendments like molasses, kelp, and alfalfa were all derived from other plant sources and are quickly and easily available to our soil and plants. This is especially important for the soil “micro-herd” of critters who depend on tiny amounts of those trace minerals as catalysts to make the enzymes that create biochemical transformations. That last sentence was our fancy way of saying - it’s actually the critters in “live soil” that break down organic fertilizers and “feed” it to our plants.
“Micronutrients occur, in cells as well as in soil, as part of large, complex organic molecules in chelated form. The word chelate (pronounced “KEE-late”
comes from the Greek word for “claw,” which indicates how a single nutrient ion is held in the center of the larger molecule. The finely balanced interactions between micronutrients are complex and not fully understood. We do know that balance is crucial; any micronutrient, when present in excessive amounts, will become a poison, and certain poisonous elements, such as chlorine are also essential micronutrients.
For this reason natural, organic sources of micronutrients are the best means of supplying them to the soil; they are present in balanced quantities and not liable to be over applied through error or ignorance. When used in naturally chelated form, excess micronutrients will be locked up and prevented from disrupting soil balance.”
Excerpted from “The Soul of Soil”
by Grace Gershuny and Joe Smillie
lucas formula : 100:100:200:60
Fat - 0g, 0%;
Sodium - 65mg. 3%;
Potassium - 800 mg. 23%;
Total Carbohydrates - 13g, 4%;
Sugars - 12g,
Protein - 1g,
Calcium - 2%;
Iron 10%;
Magnesium 15%
At Publix or Kroger you get
Gramdma's unsulfured
60 calories
Sodium 15mg
Potassium 150
Carbohydrate 15g
Sugars 10g
Calcium 4%
Iron 4%
Tree of Life
Unsulfured Blackstrap Molasses
45 calories
Sodium 15mg
Potassium 500mg
Carbohydrates 11g
Sugar 8g
Calcium 15%
Iron 20%
Magnesium 10%
Molasses
Molasses is a syrupy, thick juice created by the processing of either sugar beets or the sugar cane plant. Depending on the definition used, Sweet Sorghum also qualifies as a molasses, although technically it’s a thickened syrup more akin to Maple Syrup than to molasses. The grade and type of molasses depends on the maturity of the sugar cane or beet and the method of extraction. The different molasses’ have names like: first molasses, second molasses, unsulphured molasses, sulphured molasses, and blackstrap molasses. For gardeners the sweet syrup can work as a carbohydrate source to feed and stimulate microorganisms. And, because molasses (average NPK 1-0-5) contains potash, sulfur, and many trace minerals, it can serve as a nutritious soil amendment. Molasses is also an excellent chelating agent
Several grades and types of molasses are produced by sugar cane processing. First the plants are harvested and stripped of their leaves, and then the sugar cane is usually crushed or mashed to extract it’s sugary juice. Sugar manufacturing begins by boiling cane juice until it reaches the proper consistency, it is then processed to extract sugar. This first boiling and processing produces what is called first molasses, this has the highest sugar content of the molasses because relatively little sugar has been extracted from the juice. Green (unripe) sugar cane that has been treated with sulphur fumes during sugar extraction produces sulphured molasses. The juice of sun-ripened cane which has been clarified and concentrated produces unsulphured molasses. Another boiling and sugar extraction produces second molasses which has a slight bitter tinge to its taste.
Further rounds of processing and boiling yield dark colored blackstrap molasses, which is the most nutritionally valuable of the various types of molasses. It is commonly used as a sweetner in the manufacture of cattle and other animal feeds, and is even sold as a human health supplement. Any kind of molasses will work to provide benefit for soil and growing plants, but blackstrap molasses is the best choice because it contains the greatest concentration of sulfur, iron and micronutrients from the original cane material. Dry molasses is something different still. It’s not exactly just dried molasses either, it’s molasses sprayed on grain residue which acts as a “carrier”.
wholesome sweeteners organic molasses
per 1 tablespoon/22 g, in 1 gallon of water/3.785 liters:
potassium: 730 mg/~20% of 3500 mg dv for k/730/3.785=192.86 ppm
calcium: 115 mg/~10% of 1000 mg dv for ca/115/3.785=30.38 ppm
magnesium: 8% of 400 mg dv for mg/.08*400=32/3.785=8.4 ppm
iron: 15% of 18 mg dv for fe/.15*18=2.7/3.785=0.71 ppm
vitamin b6: 10% of 2.0 mg dv for vit b6/2*.1=.2/3.785=.05 ppm
sugars: 10g
total carbohydrates: 14g
In addition to sugars, molasses contains significant amounts of potash, sulfur, and a variety of micronutrients. Because molasses is derived from plants, and because the manufacturing processes that create it remove mostly sugars, the majority of the mineral nutrients that were contained in the original sugar cane or sugar beet are still present in molasses. This is a critical factor because a balanced supply of mineral nutrients is essential for those “beneficial beasties” to survive and thrive. That’s one of the secrets we’ve discovered to really successful organic gardening, the micronutrients found in organic amendments like molasses, kelp, and alfalfa were all derived from other plant sources and are quickly and easily available to our soil and plants. This is especially important for the soil “micro-herd” of critters who depend on tiny amounts of those trace minerals as catalysts to make the enzymes that create biochemical transformations. That last sentence was our fancy way of saying - it’s actually the critters in “live soil” that break down organic fertilizers and “feed” it to our plants.
“Micronutrients occur, in cells as well as in soil, as part of large, complex organic molecules in chelated form. The word chelate (pronounced “KEE-late”
comes from the Greek word for “claw,” which indicates how a single nutrient ion is held in the center of the larger molecule. The finely balanced interactions between micronutrients are complex and not fully understood. We do know that balance is crucial; any micronutrient, when present in excessive amounts, will become a poison, and certain poisonous elements, such as chlorine are also essential micronutrients.For this reason natural, organic sources of micronutrients are the best means of supplying them to the soil; they are present in balanced quantities and not liable to be over applied through error or ignorance. When used in naturally chelated form, excess micronutrients will be locked up and prevented from disrupting soil balance.”
Excerpted from “The Soul of Soil”
by Grace Gershuny and Joe Smillie
lucas formula : 100:100:200:60
Fat - 0g, 0%;
Sodium - 65mg. 3%;
Potassium - 800 mg. 23%;
Total Carbohydrates - 13g, 4%;
Sugars - 12g,
Protein - 1g,
Calcium - 2%;
Iron 10%;
Magnesium 15%
At Publix or Kroger you get
Gramdma's unsulfured
60 calories
Sodium 15mg
Potassium 150
Carbohydrate 15g
Sugars 10g
Calcium 4%
Iron 4%
Tree of Life
Unsulfured Blackstrap Molasses
45 calories
Sodium 15mg
Potassium 500mg
Carbohydrates 11g
Sugar 8g
Calcium 15%
Iron 20%
Magnesium 10%
Joedank
Well-Known Member
^^^i use Sucanat humic/fulvic , carbon And citric acid with well water and a little bag of homemade compost it bubbles it ten hours then rocks for inducing the krebs cycle and giving plants a break between guano and composted chicken poop
Oh and I use soy sauce in my fungal teas at the beginning and near the end of cycles .....
Oh and I use soy sauce in my fungal teas at the beginning and near the end of cycles .....
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
*data stored.. thanks sensi rize..
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
Oh god, another molasses debate thread?
Morgan Lynn
Active Member
Well, I'm a noob at growing, but I think I tend to give pretty good advice to people. I TRY too anyway. That's really all that matters here. I find it endearing when people use a smigen of their time to look at my plants and give me tips and compliments. People who give respect and people who have a well rounded sense of humor get reps from me. Even people who are kinda shitty but have strong opinions get reps.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting your ppm figures above? Are they 'calculated' or measured? If they're measured, on what ppm scale? My TDS pen (442 scale or .7 conversion) says 1 Tbs of Grandma's molasses into a gallon of water is about 95ppm.
Lets compare that to a true fertilizer; 1 Tbs of my grow formula into a gallon of water equals 1950ppm. Maybe that's not a fair comparison. How about Sweet from Botanicare; one Tbs of a 'comparable product' like Sweet into a gallon of water equals 480ppm. I don't know if you can buy Grandma's Molasses in 1 gallon containers but in 1 gallon sizes, you're paying $20 more for molasses as compared to Sweet and molasses is 5 times less concentrated. Now I'm not encouraging the purchase of Sweet, I'm just using this product as an example because people will generically say it's '....basically the same thing as molasses'.
These figures above are from the label of a molasses jar which is fine if you're talking about human consumption (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5573/2). Recommended daily values based on a 2000 calorie diet have literally nothing to do with what plants need or use, nor are the percentages calculated in the same way as fertilizers.
Fertilizer percentages are based on weight so when you do an apples-to-apples comparison of say the 150mg potassium value on the label of Grandma's Brand, one Tbs which weighs 20,000mg means that the potassium content is about .75%. The calcium content is even worse at .19%.
Even if we used the figures from the wholesome sweeteners organic molasses in the first quote, the value of that product at $39.95 per quart and a dosage of 1 Tbs/gallon is incredibly poor. The whole argument that molasses is in some way economical and mineral-packed is just false.
potassium: 730 mg/22000mg= 3%
calcium: 115 mg/22000mg= .5%
magnesium: 400 mg/22000mg= 1.8%
iron: 18 mg/22000mg= .08%
smokinheavy79
New Member
Heres some good advice... buy low, cause if you buy high you might not get the best deal, or forget what you went to buy all together. Feel free to REP+ for that jewel.
[video=youtube;lCa_Vg9DPDY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCa_Vg9DPDY[/video]
[video=youtube;lCa_Vg9DPDY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCa_Vg9DPDY[/video]
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Simple math to convert from % daily value to parts per million. The equation is listed, there are several similar equations for this conversion (google it, I didn't make this up), but this one is in the middle of the road. You are not taking into account immediate availability (like the sweet or your bottled nute) versus a natural plant extract, which is partly in a form that needs microbial nutrient cycling to be small enough to be available to plants (and read by a ppm meter). Organics 101. You are attempting to compare a concentrated fructose solution to complex carbs and minerals using a ppm meter... major misunderstanding of simple chems versus complex plant extracts. The complex plant extracts don't show on ppm meter bro. Does powder guano show on your ppm meter? how about rock phos? Are you really trying to analyze molasses with a ppm meter like bottled nutes?
I never argued that molasses was economical. BUT mine is certified organic (by much higher standards than OMRI listing) and certified fair trade, something that cannot be said of your grow store products.
here's the math, please don't quote this link because I'm going to erase if after HB reads it.
link removed, pm me if you want it.