more brutal teabaggers

[bedspirit]

All I am asking for is ONE example from the platform of the Tea Party that YOU believe is extreme. You obviously don't even know what the Tea Party Platform consists of. Here is a link to the Platform of the Tea Party. Now show me something from this that you find "EXTREME". Thanks.

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

Dude, I think we're done. I don't know what you want me to say. For some reason this whole concept has eluded you in a way that I don't understand. Maybe it's the word extreme that you're hung up on. What do you mean by extreme? For me and the dope who wrote your article, extreme would be the furthermost end of the political spectrum. That is where the tea party lies economically. That position...the end... is what makes them extreme. What don't you get about that?

Extreme left is when the government runs every aspect of the economy. So in Communism (though, I guess not China), the government runs the businesses. The center is usually a mixture of regulations and private businesses. I can't point to an economy that is far right, because I don't know that one has ever existed in the way it's defined. Argentina and Chile have both come close, but each had it's exceptions. First it involves Free Markets the way economists would define them. The idea is, the government imposes zero regulations. Not only that, but absolutely nothing can be public. No public schools, no public water, no public healthcare, no social security. Also there can be no tariffs. It's free trade with everyone. The tea party position is that they support free markets and deregulation. I believe that puts them on the very end. They may or may not support privatizing water or ending social security, but that's how a free market is suppose to be. Even if you were to move them a hair left of that ultimate endpoint, they're still goddamn close. Do you see now how I'm saying that they're extreme?

If you still don't get it, just tell me to fuck off or something because I'm tired of saying the same shit over and over and over.

 

[bedspirit]

yea the graph you posted is wrong, sure mine is a lot more simple but the one you post - example libertarian and the word anarchism should change places, among other things, your graph makes libertarians look like something they arent, the person who drew it has a wrong opinion of libertarianism it looks like a liberal drew it, it also makes no sense to include stalin, gandi, and hitler like that, not even sure they should be within this spectrum.

You're thinking of the Libertarian party. That's not what is meant by Libertarian on that graph. Here is a link to the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism Libertarianism has to do with social freedoms. Anarchism is there because they believe in no social laws either. It doesn't have anything to do with economical issues. That is one way that they would differ from your idea of a Libertarian. In this graph it could be possible to be libertarian and left or libertarian and right depending on how the economy is run. The opposite of Libertarianism would be Authoritarianism. This would be a lot of laws regulating your behavior. Hitler is there because he obviously had a shit ton of laws against people's freedom. Economically, he allowed private business to operate but still regulated and taxed them. I would probably move him a little to the left of where he is, but he's not that far off. Everyone else is fairly accurate. As I pointed out earlier, Thatcher is a little high on the Authoritarian side, but I'm sure that was due to her foreign policy.

 

[undertheice]

Dude, I think we're done. I don't know what you want me to say. For some reason this whole concept has eluded you in a way that I don't understand. Maybe it's the word extreme that you're hung up on. What do you mean by extreme? For me and the dope who wrote your article, extreme would be the furthermost end of the political spectrum. That is where the tea party lies economically. That position...the end... is what makes them extreme. What don't you get about that?

all he's asking for is an honest, personal evaluation of what it is about the tea party's philosophy that places them at this extreme right end of the spectrum. do they propose we abolish all state run social programs? no. do they propose a dismantling of the welfare state? no. do they propose a return to eighteenth century values and mores? of course not. all of these would be seen as extreme views. what they do propose is a paring down of the current bloated structure. what you have given us is the version of the tea party that has been sanitized by the media and those currently in power, a view that deems any opposition as reactionary or even counter-revolutionary. your statement that you don't know of any party anywhere in the world that is further to the right is entirely subjective and quite narrow in scope. you're just being asked to give the reasoning behind it. do you consider an authoritarian theocracy less right wing than the tea party merely because they might give out a few freebies to their people or is it just the media endorsed label that you are basing all this on?

you're entirely too hung up on the rhetoric of theory and seem to be ignoring anything that doesn't go along with your media induced coma. this isn't a right/left world any more, if it ever really was, and that paradigm must be cast aside. the very definition of extreme is "of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average" and this certainly doesn't represent the tea party philosophy. in terms of this rather conservative nation as a whole, they would seem to be more in line with the general consensus than the statist bureaucracy that has been steadily gaining power over the last sixty some odd years and now feels itself nearly unassailable. this is the impetus for labeling them "extremist", the danger they pose to the status quo. once we realize that the extremists are those attempting to radically alter the balance of power between the individual and the state, it becomes rather obvious who those extremists really are.

 

[Beansly]

Can I just ask, what, as human beings we owe to the less fortunate? Cause honestly these types of conversations blow right over me. The arguing an lack congeniality hurts my head. It' like you people who disagree wont even consider the idea of whoever you consider to be your opponent.
I want to like the Tea Party. I want to like Ron Paul.
But as a person who's considered working-class (not even lower middle class), I can't in good judgment vote for them. When I see their (TP) demonstrations, I don't see compassion or sympathy, or consideration for your fellow man. I see cold-hearted people who care more about their comfort and safety than the suffering of others.
So tell me, what do we as a society owe the elderly and the poor and the immigrants and the unemployed?

 

[Jack Fate]

Dude, I think we're done. I don't know what you want me to say. For some reason this whole concept has eluded you in a way that I don't understand. Maybe it's the word extreme that you're hung up on. What do you mean by extreme? For me and the dope who wrote your article, extreme would be the furthermost end of the political spectrum. That is where the tea party lies economically. That position...the end... is what makes them extreme. What don't you get about that?

Extreme left is when the government runs every aspect of the economy. So in Communism (though, I guess not China), the government runs the businesses. The center is usually a mixture of regulations and private businesses. I can't point to an economy that is far right, because I don't know that one has ever existed in the way it's defined. Argentina and Chile have both come close, but each had it's exceptions. First it involves Free Markets the way economists would define them. The idea is, the government imposes zero regulations. Not only that, but absolutely nothing can be public. No public schools, no public water, no public healthcare, no social security. Also there can be no tariffs. It's free trade with everyone. The tea party position is that they support free markets and deregulation. I believe that puts them on the very end. They may or may not support privatizing water or ending social security, but that's how a free market is suppose to be. Even if you were to move them a hair left of that ultimate endpoint, they're still goddamn close. Do you see now how I'm saying that they're extreme?

If you still don't get it, just tell me to fuck off or something because I'm tired of saying the same shit over and over and over.

I don't want you to fuck off. I gave you the link to the TP Platform. What I want is for you to read the link of the TP platform and then specifically point to something you think is extreme in the TP platform. I can't make it any simpler. Thanks,.

 

[Jack Fate]

Can I just ask, what, as human beings we owe to the less fortunate? Cause honestly these types of conversations blow right over me. The arguing an lack congeniality hurts my head. It' like you people who disagree wont even consider the idea of whoever you consider to be your opponent.
I want to like the Tea Party. I want to like Ron Paul.
But as a person who's considered working-class (not even lower middle class), I can't in good judgment vote for them. When I see their (TP) demonstrations, I don't see compassion or sympathy, or consideration for your fellow man. I see cold-hearted people who care more about their comfort and safety than the suffering of others.
So tell me, what do we as a society owe the elderly and the poor and the immigrants and the unemployed?

The TP is much larger than Ron Paul. I think Ron Paul is kinda kooky and I would never vote for him. The TP is a party of principles and Ideas, not a personality cult.

 

[dukeanthony]

Can I just ask, what, as human beings we owe to the less fortunate? Cause honestly these types of conversations blow right over me. The arguing an lack congeniality hurts my head. It' like you people who disagree wont even consider the idea of whoever you consider to be your opponent.
I want to like the Tea Party. I want to like Ron Paul.
But as a person who's considered working-class (not even lower middle class), I can't in good judgment vote for them. When I see their (TP)


demonstrations, I don't see compassion or sympathy, or consideration for your fellow man. I see cold-hearted people who care more about their comfort and safety than the suffering of others.
So tell me, what do we as a society owe the elderly and the poor and the immigrants and the unemployed?

you already know the tea party answer

 

[mame]

All I am asking for is ONE example from the platform of the Tea Party that YOU believe is extreme. You obviously don't even know what the Tea Party Platform consists of. Here is a link to the Platform of the Tea Party. Now show me something from this that you find "EXTREME". Thanks.

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

I'll bite. A Balanced Budget Amendment is unworkable economically for starters... Also, completely free markets have unintended and negative consecuences - widening income inequality, environmental disregard, among them. The Tea party also supports a flat tax, which would also contribute to widening income inequality and more importantly, over time a flat tax would create instability in the economy.

Before the Tea party showed up none of these ideas were widespread at all; They were ideas the the far right held for a long time but were ignored, the Tea Party is eating it up - because they are the far right.

 

[Jack Fate]

I'll bite. A Balanced Budget Amendment is unworkable economically for starters... Also, completely free markets have unintended and negative consecuences - widening income inequality, environmental disregard, among them. The Tea party also supports a flat tax, which would also contribute to widening income inequality and more importantly, over time a flat tax would create instability in the economy.

Before the Tea party showed up none of these ideas were widespread at all; They were ideas the the far right held for a long time but were ignored, the Tea Party is eating it up - because they are the far right.

Looks like they are now becoming mainstream ideas. Perhaps you're being left behind like the Democrat Party is. America is having a revolution and you're on the losing side. We have gone too far left and now we are swinging the pendulum back like always happens when we go too far in either direction. That's how our system works and it's beautiful to watch.

 

[mame]

Looks like they are now becoming mainstream ideas. Perhaps you're being left behind like the Democrat Party is. America is having a revolution and you're on the losing side. We have gone too far left and now we are swinging the pendulum back like always happens when we go too far in either direction. That's how our system works and it's beautiful to watch.

Economic suicide is beautiful to watch? No thanks.

 

[tomahawk2406]

america is having an "IQ below 80" revolution. i'll buy a musket and a pair of buckle shoes for the big revolution.

 

[Jack Fate]

Economic suicide is beautiful to watch? No thanks.

That's pure bullshit propaganda from the left. The TP is made up of people with investments, homes, and families. If you want to believe that BS then you aren't getting it. If we don't stop this govt and the unions then were certainly are headed for trouble and it will have nothing to do with the TP.

 

[Carne Seca]

That's pure bullshit propaganda from the left. The TP is made up of people with investments, homes, and families. If you want to believe that BS then you aren't getting it. If we don't stop this govt and the unions then were certainly are headed for trouble and it will have nothing to do with the TP.

The scary thing is you truly believe this shit.

 

[Jack Fate]

The scary thing is you truly believe this shit.

What's really scary is you and your pals believe the TP is some kind of racist far right organization. Enjoy the Kool Aid.

 

[bedspirit]

I don't want you to fuck off. I gave you the link to the TP Platform. What I want is for you to read the link of the TP platform and then specifically point to something you think is extreme in the TP platform. I can't make it any simpler. Thanks,.

Fuck, man. It's their position on the economy. At this point, I've already described it. Read that shit I wrote about the free market (core value #4).

 

[Jack Fate]

Fuck, man. It's their position on the economy. At this point, I've already described it. Read that shit I wrote about the free market (core value #4).

The TP is made up of many business people and they know what works. Obama and his pals have never ran anything. Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[bedspirit]

The TP is made up of many business people and they know what works. Obama and his pals have never ran anything. Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

What Koolaid? I'm not a fucking Obama supporter! Those business people don't know shit. That pure free market approach is theoretical. It's never shown the kinds of results it was suppose to show. How did that free market approach work in Chile under Pinochet? How well did it work in Argentina under Fernando de la Rúa? Actually, those business people do know shit. Those policies would probably help them get richer, but it wouldn't do a lot for you.

Personally, I don't want to see the privatization of any government services. When governments and private enterprise get together, all that supposed efficiency the private industry is suppose to bring, goes to hell. Tax payers end up paying too much for shitty results. Also I think we should tear up our free trade agreements and go back to tariffs. The TP loves to pay lip service to our founders, well, our founders used tariffs. They didn't get into this neoliberal horse shit.

 

[Jack Fate]

What Koolaid? I'm not a fucking Obama supporter! Those business people don't know shit. That pure free market approach is theoretical. It's never shown the kinds of results it was suppose to show. How did that free market approach work in Chile under Pinochet? How well did it work in Argentina under Fernando de la Rúa? Actually, those business people do know shit. Those policies would probably help them get richer, but it wouldn't do a lot for you.

Personally, I don't want to see the privatization of any government services. When governments and private enterprise get together, all that supposed efficiency the private industry is suppose to bring, goes to hell. Tax payers end up paying too much for shitty results. Also I think we should tear up our free trade agreements and go back to tariffs. The TP loves to pay lip service to our founders, well, our founders used tariffs. They didn't get into this neoliberal horse shit.

That's rich....business people don't know shit about how to make business prosper so they can provide jobs.........Wow. That's just amazing. You're too damn smart for me. LOL.

 

[bedspirit]

all he's asking for is an honest, personal evaluation of what it is about the tea party's philosophy that places them at this extreme right end of the spectrum. do they propose we abolish all state run social programs? no. do they propose a dismantling of the welfare state? no. do they propose a return to eighteenth century values and mores? of course not. all of these would be seen as extreme views. what they do propose is a paring down of the current bloated structure. what you have given us is the version of the tea party that has been sanitized by the media and those currently in power, a view that deems any opposition as reactionary or even counter-revolutionary. your statement that you don't know of any party anywhere in the world that is further to the right is entirely subjective and quite narrow in scope. you're just being asked to give the reasoning behind it. do you consider an authoritarian theocracy less right wing than the tea party merely because they might give out a few freebies to their people or is it just the media endorsed label that you are basing all this on?

you're entirely too hung up on the rhetoric of theory and seem to be ignoring anything that doesn't go along with your media induced coma. this isn't a right/left world any more, if it ever really was, and that paradigm must be cast aside. the very definition of extreme is "of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average" and this certainly doesn't represent the tea party philosophy. in terms of this rather conservative nation as a whole, they would seem to be more in line with the general consensus than the statist bureaucracy that has been steadily gaining power over the last sixty some odd years and now feels itself nearly unassailable. this is the impetus for labeling them "extremist", the danger they pose to the status quo. once we realize that the extremists are those attempting to radically alter the balance of power between the individual and the state, it becomes rather obvious who those extremists really are.

Damn. You again? I thought you were on vacation or something.

I'm not going to debate this with you since your grasp on reality tends to be a little loose, but I will point out that TP would like to change the welfare state significantly. You can't cut taxes (core value #1), pay off the debt (core value #2), eliminate deficit spending (core value #3) without reducing what we spend of welfare. Of course, in a true free market (core value #4), the government wouldn't be in the welfare business anyway, it would have to be privatized. What do you think they mean when they talk about civic responsibility (core value #6)? they mean people need to learn to take care of themselves and stop relying on the government. In other words, no more welfare.

By the way, I'm done with this whole "extreme" thing, so don't even bother pushing me to define more of it. If I had known that little comment was going to eat up so much of my fucking time, I wouldn't have bothered with it.

 

[bedspirit]

That's rich....business people don't know shit about how to make business prosper so they can provide jobs.........Wow. That's just amazing. You're too damn smart for me. LOL.

This whole time I've been giving you far too much credit. What do you think of free markets? Do you have an opinion on it or are you going to let those smart business people make those kinds of decisions?

More Koolaid anyone?