Wiring Question

[ClaytonBigsby]

I have two 1000W ballasts, and 240 wiring going to my room for a tanning bed (which I have removed to make it a grow room). I would love to use the 240 for my ballasts but need help figuring out how to wire the 240 to the outlet for the ballasts. I got this outlet from my hydro shop and it says 120/240. The breaker is a 20A. Can this be done?

 

[panhead]

Im at a loss why the hydro shop woulda given you a standard 110 outlet,running 240 off standard outlets will work & will not present any fire hazard to the outlet or to any of the entire electrical system.

The reason code dictates to use 240 outlets is so you cany accidently plug lower voltage items into an outlet that supplys higher voltages.

If you have digital ballasts most are allready equipped to be ran at 240 volt just by running a proper cord from the ballast.

Im kinda not understanding why you dont just change the cords on the ballasts over to 240 volt,that way you can use the existing plug to power the ballasts,you will also remain in compliance with code,if you own your home the home owners policy will not pay if you alter the electrical service without conforming to code.

You could order new ballast power cords real cheap & solve this problem,which IMO is the only way to go but if you still want to proceed there is nothing wrong with using the outlet they gave you & it will not start a fire.

 

[ClaytonBigsby]

Hello Panhead, thanks for the input. A little more clarification: It is a 20A breaker. Here is the existing set up, and what the sticker (not the actual made in China outlet) says.

My big question is how do I wire the existing four wires (black, red, white, and ground [the ground I have figured out ]) to this turd of an outlet. And will it be safe?


Safe riding my brother!

 

[stems&seeds]

That plug is designed to run 240v to your ballasts via the 120v power cords. I'm pretty sure this should work alright, that said I simply run the nema 6 240 cords for my ballasts.
That plug is a combo nema 5-15, 6-15. I simply use 6-15 receptacles instead of this above pictured combo because as mentioned above, it's too easy to plug a 120v item into a 240v source.
As far as the wiring is concerned, I'm pretty sure you will be using 2 hots and a ground, no neutral. I have no idea what the back of that cap receptacle looks like so I couldn't tell you what goes where exactly.
You should be fine in terms of amperage as 1kw ballasts operate somewhere in the ballpark of 6-7amps@240v.

 

[ClaytonBigsby]

+rep, thankS so much! I have been looking around online for about three hours and found a wiring diagram for this outlet at PLATT. EXCELLENT website for electrical. It appears that yes, the NEMA 6 gets wired hot, hot, ground. I will cap the neutral and check the outlet with my testers.

My Quantum ballasts say 4.1A at 240V (8A at 120V). I will be using the 240V cords that came with them.

THANK YOU AGAIN!!

I like to leave electrical to the daredevils (electricians) but I'd hate to have to kill one after he helped me set up my grow.

 

[ResidualFreedom]

+rep, thankS so much! I have been looking around online for about three hours and found a wiring diagram for this outlet at PLATT. EXCELLENT website for electrical. It appears that yes, the NEMA 6 gets wired hot, hot, ground. I will cap the neutral and check the outlet with my testers.

My Quantum ballasts say 4.1A at 240V (8A at 120V). I will be using the 240V cords that came with them.

THANK YOU AGAIN!!

I like to leave electrical to the daredevils (electricians) but I'd hate to have to kill one after he helped me set up my grow.

OKAY WAIT A SECOND HERE............ I'm an electrician, and I will explain everything you need to know so you will feel confident enough to wire this up properly..

First off why would you want to run your ballast on 240v? The ONLY reason to do this is to minimize the cost of buying wire to feed the room.. it will not have any impact on your electricity bill at all.. 120v x 8 amps = 960watts.... and guess what? 240v x 4 amps gives you.... tada! 960watts... exactly the same wattage.. and you are billed on your total watts used.. therefore you see why it has no impact on your electricity bill.

If you are tripping your breaker by plugging in a ballast then the circuit is obviously being shared with other appliances, a 15A breaker can cold 12A steady.. 80% of capacity.. switching the ballast to 240 will not work in this situation because every thing in your house runs off 120V, if you were to switch the wires at the panel you would be giving 240V to everything on that circuit.. so the other items that were causing the breaker to trip would be getting way too much voltage and burn out..

If you have more then one ballast (three 1000w ballasts) running in the grow room then and ONLY then it would be smart to switch to 240V.. Why? I will explain... This will be a little long winded I can imagine.. just hit a bowl of super lemon haze... yum yum...

running one 1000w ballast in one room (120V)
- need one 15 amp circuit at panel
- need one 14/2 wire running to the room
- put the wire into a box, add a plug and plug in your light..

Total watts 960w.. like stated above.

Running two ballast in one room..
- need EITHER 1 x 14/3 wire from 1 2-pole 15 amp breaker in panel to the room, where it goes into a box and the box has two receptacles one for each ballast to plug into.
- OR YOU CAN RUN 2 x 14/2 wires from two 15 breakers in your panel to the room and each wire goes into two a box with a receptacle and a ballast plugs into each one...
2ballasts x 8A (each light draws) x 120 v = 1920 W.... double the amount as one ballast..

Running three ballasts at 120
- need three 15A breakers in the panel, with three separate runs going to each box with receptacle, and each light plugs into it.. Just like the two previous situations
- total is 960W x 3 = 2880W....

Running three ballasts at 240V
- need 1 x 14/3 from 1 x 2-pole 15A breaker to the room.. this time the wires going into a box or ganged boxes with three 240V plugs in it... or easier three "dpdt" switches, which are double pole double throw.. allows two conductors to be switched at the same time with one switch.. used for 240V all the time because you need to shut off both of the conductors to the item not just one like in the 120V situation we are used to.
- so 3 x 4A x 240V = 2880W EXACTLY THE SAME AS IF YOU WERE TO RUN THREE CIRCUITS TO THE ROOM AND HAVE EACH LIGHT AT 120V......

So why would you run lights at 240V in the first place? Look at how much money is spent on material to set up each of these situations...... or more specifically the three ballast situations.. it is much more expensive (depending on distance from the panel to the room) to get three runs of 14/2 wire plus three breakers/boxes/plugs.... then it is to run one 14/3 wire, one 15A 2-Pole breaker and the boxes and three dpdt switches..

So that is it.... there is no real reason to run your ballasts on 240V if you are not running three or more ballasts.. yes there are more details to this, but that is as basic as I can put it.. the out of pocket expense to install the system is the only monetary ($$$$$) benefit you will ever see from it.

If you have Q's please fire away.. time for another bowl....

 

[ClaytonBigsby]

@ResidualFreedom:

Two bowls during that explanation? Sounds like good times! Thank you for your thorough explanation. This set up is in my shop and the 240V was already in the room to juice our tanning bed. It was solely dedicated to the panel for that purpose. Wife got skin cancer, and quit using the bed (lesson for you youngsters). I am using 2 1000W ballasts, and at 240v they only use 4.3amp each. To me that means I can run more ballasts off of one breaker. Why not use what I have already? There is a light switch and a duplex 110V in the room as well (on a different circuit breaker). I did install the outlet using the red and black hot wires and the ground. I capped the neutral and have buttoned it all up (after testing the outlet at 240V). I know it has no impact on the bill, but like I said, I can run more things off of it, AND it's better for the ballasts, no?

Thank you again, truly, for your input. As an ex General, electricians/daredevils rock. Be safe.

 

[ResidualFreedom]

First off and more important to all this wiring bullshit...Sorry to hear about your wife, my condolences on the situation, I wish you and your family the best....and hopefully a speedy recovery!


if you already have the wire there... bonus... then you can run the ballasts either as 120 or 240... and it is just the same to the ballasts.. it is converting the power to the voltage the ballasts uses to ignite the light... so either 120v or 240v wont matter to the ballast, it will convert both to the voltage needed as long as the proper taps are used.. the 240 for that application and the 120 for the 120 application.. obviously..
What you can do is either
A) tap each ballast to 120V.. put the wire into a box with two receptacles.. run the black and white to one receptacle, and then run the red and white to the other receptacle.... this will provide 120v to both receptacles and all four outlets.... and assuming the breaker is a two pole 15A breaker.. (check that in your panel, the tanning beds may have been on two pole 20A breakers) then you have one breaker (two pole breakers have one switch to control both breakers) that controls two circuits on two receptacles.. you can run a ballast on each of those circuits with 4A to spare on each breaker, allowing fans and ambient lighting to be plugged in.. And with each breaker providing 15A (12A steady), the 8A from each ballast will not come close to the circuits capacity, like I said earlier, so you can use the two free outlets for fans or whatever..(just to clarify, each circuit controls one receptacle, there are two outlets in each receptacle, the light gets plugged into one outlet and the fans into the bottom or top outlet.. just like wall outlets in your house) .

B) run get a double gang box... run the 3wire 240V into the box.. get two switches to put in the box.. DPDT switches.. they are basically exact the same as joining two switches together allowing one toggle switch to control both of them.. So in the box, you will have the neutral capped off (only if your lights do not have a neutral, sometimes, like your stove, you run 240V plus a neutral, other times like in motors, they can run just to circuit conductors and a ground.) and you will take the red, strip the end and join it to two red wires, putting each of those red wires into one screw on each DPDT switch, do the same with the black. Now connect the two conductors from your ballasts to the switches.. so you have the red and black entering the box, going into a "Y" with a marette, feeding each switch with a red and a black, then one ballast , both hot wires, connect to each switch.. This will allow you to have two switches each controlling a separate ballast at 240V.. but you will be using 4A on each breaker which can provide 12A..

so you are able to connect it as 240.. but with very minimal work you can connect the ballasts as 120V and still have two additional outlets that will be able to provide 4A steady, which is plenty for fans and other lights.. if you connect as 240, you will have to use the additional outlet (that you mentioned in your pots above) to power all your fans and additional stuff in that room, which may be plenty.. just putting in my two cents..

If you were to not touch the panel, and just disconnect the red from the outlet and connect the white, you will get 120v... black to red = 240V , white to red = 120v , white to black = 120v... you have very little wiring to change if you did want to change it..

 

[mrmadcow]

Running two ballast in one room..
- need EITHER 1 x 14/3 wire from 1 2-pole 15 amp breaker in panel to the room, where it goes into a box and the box has two receptacles one for each ballast to plug into.....

I am going to throw a red flag here.
if you are running 14/3 wire to 2 seperate outlets and protecting them w/ a 15 amp breaker for each hot leg and share a common neutral, you have the potential to be returning almost 30 amps through the neutral.
not very safe!!
even w/ only a 8 amp load on each, you are returning 16 amps on a single 14 gauge wire.
also, It may only be a code for the peoples republic of new york, but around here,14 gauge wire can only be run for lighting circiuts only. 12 gauge is needed if you put an outlet anywhere in the circuit.

 

[Rezin]

I think i have the greatest idea ever....

Just do some MacGyver action and turn that tanning bed into the ultimate grow light....

That way you can still use your 240v outlet.....

Ya i'm pretty stoned right now

 

[ResidualFreedom]

I am going to throw a red flag here.
if you are running 14/3 wire to 2 seperate outlets and protecting them w/ a 15 amp breaker for each hot leg and share a common neutral, you have the potential to be returning almost 30 amps through the neutral.
not very safe!!

Yes it is safe.. legal... and code... Yes your state may have a code that goes above that... but the american and canadian code both allow this practice.. it in no way could cause a fire.. .. look at your split plugs in your kitchen... now they want you to install a #12 with a 20A t-slot receptacle... but code used to be a 14/3 going to a split receptacle, giving the availability of 15A to either the top or bottom receptacle providing the bridge between the two copper screws is removed.. So it in no way will be unsafe... 90% of homes built were built this way, and still operate safely this way.... only the houses built after the code was changed will be wired with conductors larger then 14awg.. if it was unsafe then people would be pulling the wires out of their walls and replacing it.. which they r not.. it is not unsafe lets be clear.. if it was people wouldnt buy a house with anything but up-to-date codes.. .and considering codes are constantly changing (improving), codes only have to be followed if the install is new.. you dont have to break down drywall walls to re-feed your outlets with #12 because they changed the code in your state, but if you add new outlets then you would (if your current code specifies #12awg for receptacles)..

Additionally, the neutral does not carry the used current back to the panel... The neutral provides a path for the UNBALANCED LOAD to be carried back.. so if one circuit is loaded 15A and the other has nothing on it.. .then ... do the math... 15A... which is code for a 14awg wire.. the situation you described could never happen..

 

[NWMED]

I have an electrical ?. I need to wire 3 lights all 400watt hps. They are industrial shop lights with built-in ballast. I tried wiring direct to a standard plug cord but didn't work. What's the best way to wire them? I have pics if that will help. There is a diagram on them but its all greek to me.

 

[ResidualFreedom]

I have an electrical ?. I need to wire 3 lights all 400watt hps. They are industrial shop lights with built-in ballast. I tried wiring direct to a standard plug cord but didn't work. What's the best way to wire them? I have pics if that will help. There is a diagram on them but its all greek to me.

post pics and the schematic diagram... we can advise much better with that info.. I would just guess they r not 120v lights.. but the pics and the info will help us explain how to wire them...

 

[NWMED]

Here's the lights.

 

[MrSlick]

240 volts is actually better because even though you are using the same amount of electricity, the amperage is half and less stress on your wiring. The higher the voltage, the smaller the amperage. Plus you are using two hot legs, no neutrals overloaded. (wink)

 

[MrSlick]

Those lamps are rated at 480v which is industrial/commercial voltage. You may not be able to use them.

 

[MrSlick]

TO RESIDUAL FREEDOM:
I agree, if both circuits get a 15 amp load then nothing travels back on the neutral. The neutral is a return for an unbalanced load. For example if one circuit had 10 amp draw and the other has a 5 amp draw. Only 5 amps is returned on the neutral.

 

[NWMED]

Those lamps are rated at 480v which is industrial/commercial voltage. You may not be able to use them.

I was told by they millwright at the mill I got them from that they will run 120/240v. Also had people from RIU say they can be wired 120. I tried wiring a standard plug to them and got nothing. Is the 480v the reason?

 

[NWMED]

The diagram shows 120 but also something labeled com. I take it that's the 480v and they won't run without it huh? Thanks for the help. Would it be same to wire them 120 and see if they work? Or could that be dangerous?

 

[MrSlick]

It looks like you have lamps that you cannot use. On some lamps they have a multi-tap transformer so they can be wired for 120/208/240/277 and usually the 480s are not multi tap. The 480v lamps like yours have a 120v dropdown for instant (backup) lighting in the event of a power failure, a 120v halogen lamp inserted into the dome would light while the restrike cycle is in cooldown. This allows light in a warehouses so the workers wont be in complete darkness in the event of a brownout or power interruption. So if you were to apply 480 volts, you could get 120v back from the transformer. I hope this helps.