Sr. Verde's: Concentrate Corner

[Rj41]

I know everyone is bonkers for BHO but has anyone ever tried leaching the chlorophyl from the bud with water, completely drying, and then using a non-polar solvent to extract the terpenoids and cannabinoids? Like ether or acetone?

I was directed away from acetone. Not sure why though.

 

[cannabineer]

When you use saturated hydrocarbon as a solvent, you don't get chlorophyll in any significant quantity or other water-solubles. I took a hexanes extract of good trim and performed a water wash (using a sep. funnel) on half of it, back in the day. No difference except a wee bit of goods lost into the water.
Ether and acetone are both more aggressive solvents than the alkane hydrocarbons. cn

 

[Matt Rize]

BHO- what is left behind after making it? Does BHO made with a pvc tube contain traces of the pvc? what else remains behind? have labs been checking for leftover chemicals in the samples they test?

Using PVC is a very bad idea. Why? Because phalates can be picked up with the gases.

"What are phthalates? How are they used?
Phthalates are a class of widely used industrial compounds known technically as dialkyl or alkyl aryl esters of 1,2-benzenedicarboxylic acid. There are many phthalates with many uses, and just as many toxicological properties.

Phthalates crept into widespread use over the last several decades because of their many beneficial chemical properties. Now they are ubiquitous, not just in the products in which they are intentionally used, but also as contaminants in just about anything. About a billion pounds per year are produced worldwide.

Intentional uses of phthalates include softeners of plastics, oily substances in perfumes, additives to hairsprays, lubricants and wood finishers. That new car smell, which becomes especially pungent after the car has been sitting in the sun for a few hours, is partly the pungent odor of phthalates volatilizing from a hot plastic dashboard. In the evening's cool they then condense out of the inside air of the car to form an oily coating on the inside of the windshield.

What are the health concerns?
Much of the existing literature on phthalates' toxicological properties focuses on the old approach to toxicology: high level exposure for cancer endpoints, and occupational exposure leading to adult infertility. In the past several years, however, particularly led by Earl Gray's laboratory at the US Environmental Protection Agency, attention has turned to low-dose toxicity of phthalates during crucial windows of fetal development. As these studies have advanced, they have fundamentally changed our perception of potential health risks of phthalates.
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/oncompounds/phthalates/phthalates.htm

 

[Matt Rize]

I know everyone is bonkers for BHO but has anyone ever tried leaching the chlorophyl from the bud with water, completely drying, and then using a non-polar solvent to extract the terpenoids and cannabinoids? Like ether or acetone?

water curing... I've heard it works, but with the other options, and the quality of those options, there is no reason to water cure. Ether and Acetone are both very dangerous to use. Acetone is not to be used because it won't evap easily. And ether affects people way too easily, it should not be used unless you have a real hood

 

[oakley1984]

matt your excessive knowledge on some of this Continues to astound me.

while most of us here are complete backyard chemists, you seem to generally have chemistry knowledge.

 

[Matt Rize]

matt your excessive knowledge on some of this Continues to astound me.

while most of us here are complete backyard chemists, you seem to generally have chemistry knowledge.

I went to college and majored in CHEM. I have a good number of independent lab hours and training. I went to learn to make better solvent extracts, but now I'm in Cali and its felonious, so I've focused on ice water.

Stainless Steel if preferred over glass extraction tubes for many reasons, all safety related. PVC is garbage and toxic to use.

BHO is actually: butane/isobutane/propane honey oil.

 

[dp sux]

Dude Im a full melt head(I hitt it all day long like a fiend) mostly smoke it like people smoke (ice) in a light bulb (works the best)

Anyway that looks like a nice batch I didnt read whole thread...

Im starten to run out of it now it gives me actual withdrawl (do you eva feel it)????????????????

Im gonna be smokin plant matter fer next few weeks Agghhhaaaaaaaaaa it sucks......

blow some smoke into sunny window and take a pick of it I love seeing the glands glisten in the smoke in the light take pic of it?????

 

[fdd2blk]

I went to college and majored in CHEM. I have a good number of independent lab hours and training. I went to learn to make better solvent extracts, but now I'm in Cali and its felonious, so I've focused on ice water.

Stainless Steel if preferred over glass extraction tubes for many reasons, all safety related. PVC is garbage and toxic to use.

BHO is actually: butane/isobutane/propane honey oil.

can you show me where extractions in cali are a felony?

isn't growing pot a felony?

thanks, i make a lot of honey oil and you are the only person who i've ever heard say this.

 

[Matt Rize]

can you show me where extractions in cali are a felony?
isn't growing pot a felony?
thanks, i make a lot of honey oil and you are the only person who i've ever heard say this.

In California, under 215, we can grow and make non-solvent extracts legally, this specifically includes edibles. Chris Conrad already took this to court and the proof is on record. Colorado is the place to be for making bho, its easy and cheap to get a permit. Try getting a permit in cali, good luck with that.

Chris Conrad tried several different angles and it did not work. The court ruled that making medical marijuana solvent extracts, without a permit, is still a felony: http://www.chrisconrad.com/expert.witness/Bergen08CalAppB203793hashOil.pdf

Here is the California solvent extract law:

Section 11379.6(a) states: "Except as otherwise provided by law, every person who compounds, converts, produces, derives, processes, or prepares, either directly or indirectly by chemical extraction or independently by means of chemical synthesis, any controlled substance - shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years and by a fine up to $50,000"

The key word is chemical extraction, which is used here synonymously with solvent extraction. This is different than a water extraction, as water is not considered a chemical in this legal sense. Making kif and ice water hash are both physical separations. Water is well known as the universal polar solvent, ie salt and sugar both dissolve easily in water. But whole trichome heads are coated in a nonpolar waxy cuticle (common in the plant world), and do not dissolve in water. No dissolution of trichome heads means no solvent extraction, so no felony. Three cheers for ice water hash and dry screen hash (kief) in CA! Hash hash hooray!

ASA also claims this to be true, bho=illegal and hash=legal.

HASH (kief, water hash) IS LEGAL per AG's Report Oct 2003 = copy here
Concentrated cannabis or hashish is included within the meaning of “marijuana” as that term is used in the Compassionate Use Act of 1996.~ PUBLISHED IN THE OFFICIAL REPORTS OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERALState of California BILL LOCKYER Attorney General October 21, 2003
http://www.hmsllc.org/No.03_411.pdf
BUT HASH OIL IS NOT LEGAL - as of Aug. 2008 =
"Hash Oil" & "Honey Oil" ie anything that uses a solvent for chemical extration (Butain and so forth) is illegal. People v. Bergan 2nd Court of Appeals, Div. 1, Aug 2008. Mechanical speration (silk screen, ice bag and also non-chemical lipids; butter, cooking oil) are still legal for valiad medical cannabis patients. Solvents made "oils" are not. Items made with a solvent, can be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years and by a fine” up to $50,000.
Here's the full case: http://www.hmsllc.org/bergan1.pdf
Basicaly if its NOT made with a silk screen (KEIF) or ice bags (HASH) or butter or vegy oil (Olive oil et al) "Non-chemical lipids" - it is against the law - and is under 'drug manufactoring." The Bergan dission is quite clear on this and goes into the verious methods and which ones are okay and which ones (Solvent derived) are not!
Note: Cold CO2 extration method is NOT mentioned I don't know where that would fall.

http://safeaccessnow.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=2711

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=5174

Hashing out medical pot law
by Jason Cox, Keizer Times (OR)
October 26th, 2007
Keizer Police recently arrested a medical marijuana grower and patient for manufacturing a controlled substance – hashish oil.

Pro-medicinal marijuana advocates have criticized the arrest, saying that creating hash oil – essentially separating the active ingredients of the drug from the plant material, using dry methods, water or a chemical solvent – is legal for medical marijuana patients.

However, Keizer Police Capt. Jeff Kuhns said the Keizer Police Department believes the intent of a portion of the law addressing "mixtures or preparations" of medical marijuana doesn't extend to hash oil.

"The intent behind that language is for things such as brownies, butters and stuff like that – putting it in your pizza, different recipes, different things you can make with the dried leaves," Kuhns said. "When they drafted this law, if they meant to address hashish or hash oil they would seemingly have addressed how much you can possess."

Lori Evans, a deputy district attorney for Marion County, said the case is set to go before a grand jury next month. She cited bar association guidelines in declining to discuss the intricacies of the case.

"The case is pending, so I can't talk about the merits of the case," Evans said.

For anyone who doesn't hold a Oregon Medical Marijuana Program card, hash oil is explicitly illegal under Oregon law, as is marijuana.

But organizations such as the Oregon chapter of the National Organization for Reforming Marijuana Laws and the THC Foundation say hash oil fits within what medical marijuana patients are allow to have under Oregon law.

No authorities, or the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program's director, have so far been able to point to a statute, rule or case law indicating explicitly whether making hash oil is actually legal or illegal for medical marijuana patients.

The issue of Anthony Wyatt Beasley's medical marijuana grow – which was situated in a rental home adjacent to McNary High School's campus – became news fodder after several plants were stolen from his property.

About a week later – Wednesday, Oct. 17 – a former roommate was at the Newberg Drive house to collect personal belongings when police said she spotted two PVC pipes in the home, which she told authorities could be pipe bombs. Police responded to the residence and called in the Salem Police Bomb Squad, who determined that the pipes were full of marijuana. Butane – a chemical often used to extract hash oil out of the marijuana plant – was also obtained during the search, Kuhns said.

Keizer Police were able to obtain a search warrant – which must be signed by a judge – and went to the residence on Friday, Oct. 19, later arresting Beasley, 28, for manufacturing a controlled substance within 1,000 feet of a school. Beasley was released on his own recognizance on Tuesday, Oct. 23.

The Oregon Revised Statutes define "usable marijuana" – that is, what substances qualify as medicinal marijuana – as "the dried leaves and flowers of the plant Cannabis family Moraceae, and any mixture or preparation thereof, that are appropriate for medical use."

The Oregon Administrative Rules – a set of legally-binding rules that further govern the medical marijuana program – are even more explicit, declaring proper "the resin extracted from (the marijuana plant); and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture or preparation of the plant or its resin."

There was only one point that both law enforcement and medicinal marijuana advocates could agree on - in their opinion, making hash oil using the butane method is unsafe. A 2006 case in Eugene saw two men allegedly attempting to make hash oil suffer severe burns, The Register-Guard reported. But the agreements end there.

Medicinal marijuana advocates, including the directors of the THC Foundation and Oregon's chapter of NORML, adamantly believe police and prosecutors were erroneous in their belief that hash oil falls outside the bounds of medical marijuana.

What is hash oil?
Hash oil is made from the marijuana plant, using a solvent such as butane, isopropyl alcohol or other solvents to extract active ingredients in a more concentrated form.
There are several methods of making hash oil – one of which is by using PVC pipe. Essentially, it consists of grinding the marijuana plant into a powder and pouring the solvent into the pipe with the marijuana. A thick, gooey substance comes out that contains a higher percentage of THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) and other active ingredients than does the portion of the marijuana plant that is typically smoked.

The Oregon chapter of the National Organization of Marijuana Laws contends that hash oil is allowed for medical marijuana patients under the law, but does not recommend this extraction method due to the fact that butane is extremely flammable.

Paul Stanford, executive director of the Portland-based THC Foundation, actually teaches monthly classes on how to extract hashish from the marijuana plant. They do not teach the extraction method using PVC pipes and butane to make hash oil.

Stanford said there's no narcotics added to hashish or hash oil – and that patients extracting it are within their rights. Hash is often in a solid form, while hash oil is generally a thicker liquid. It can be consumed by adding it to a tobacco or marijuana cigarette or cooked into food.

"This man had paid a fee to the state to be allowed to grow and possess marijuana, including hashish and hash oil," Stanford said.

Madeline Martinez, executive director of Oregon's chapter of NORML, blamed what she called inadequate training of law enforcement. She said 2005 changes to the medical marijuana statute were created specifically to address questions about what forms of marijuana are acceptable as medicinal.

"If you look at the law, it states clearly that we can have hash … we can have ganja butters," Martinez said. "… This is outrageous. If patients are expected to follow the law, doesn't it make sense that law enforcement should also have to follow the law?"

For her part, Tawana Nichols, program director of the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program, said she consulted with legal counsel and could not find any documentation to clarify the matter.

Kuhns reiterated that the department "think(s) the intent does not include hash oil" and noted the case had been reviewed by a district attorney and signed by a judge. He noted that, in Oregon statute, hashish and hash oil are listed separately from marijuana.

This isn't the first time Keizer Police have had to deal with seemingly contradictory laws regarding the medical marijuana program and laws that enhance penalties for drug cultivation or distribution near a school.

Just a few weeks ago a reported disturbance at Beasley's home brought police to the home, after another person at the house allegedly chased several teenagers with pepper spray. Police responded to the home and saw numerous marijuana plants growing, but found that Beasley and the other cardholders were in compliance with Oregon's medical marijuana law.

 

[fdd2blk]

so there is no law that specifically states making butane hash oil is a felony?

your just taking what's out there and applying it to honey oil, right?

all the clubs here sell it, last time i walked in to any anyways. this is why i'm confused.

 

[Matt Rize]

so there is no law that specifically states making butane hash oil is a felony?

your just taking what's out there and applying it to honey oil, right?

all the clubs here sell it, last time i walked in to any anyways. this is why i'm confused.

No, this CA law, also known as the meth lab law, is applied to bho extraction, successfully, in court.

Section 11379.6(a) states: "Except as otherwise provided by law, every person who compounds, converts, produces, derives, processes, or prepares, either directly or indirectly by chemical extraction or independently by means of chemical synthesis, any controlled substance - shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years and by a fine up to $50,000"

The clubs sell bho because they want $ and 'tane is all the rage right now. Smart dispensaries, like PIM, do not sell butane extracts because that is technically illegal. 99% of dispensaries do not label their BHO as a butane extract for legal reasons.

My experiences with the two big dispensaries in the county involve being told specifically to never say the word butane, and to lie to the press about how BHO is made, calling it an ice water hash for the reporter.

The good people at Tamisium won't ship their extractors to CA because of this law. They also won't do public demos in the state because of this law.

 

[fdd2blk]

No, this CA law, also known as the meth lab law, is applied to bho extraction, successfully, in court.

Section 11379.6(a) states: "Except as otherwise provided by law, every person who compounds, converts, produces, derives, processes, or prepares, either directly or indirectly by chemical extraction or independently by means of chemical synthesis, any controlled substance - shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years and by a fine up to $50,000"

The clubs sell bho because they want $ and 'tane is all the rage right now. Smart dispensaries, like PIM, do not sell butane extracts because that is technically illegal. 99% of dispensaries do not label their BHO as a butane extract for legal reasons.

My experiences with the two big dispensaries in the county involve being told specifically to never say the word butane, and to lie to the press about how BHO is made, calling it an ice water hash for the reporter.

The good people at Tamisium won't ship their extractors to CA because of this law. They also won't do public demos in the state because of this law.

so it's no more breaking the law then growing in the first place.


thanks for the clarification. you had me worried for a minute.

 

[Matt Rize]

so it's no more breaking the law then growing in the first place.
thanks for the clarification. you had me worried for a minute.

Wait? What? If you have your 215 you can grow and make hash legally, and you won't end up with charges as long as the fed is not involved. But making solvent extracts, any of them (qwiso, bho, ect) is clearly a state level felony in Cali with or without a 215 rec.

If we are talking federales, then this whole forum is illegal and everything I post is really about tomatoes.

 

[fdd2blk]

No, this CA law, also known as the meth lab law, is applied to bho extraction, successfully, in court.

Section 11379.6(a) states: "Except as otherwise provided by law, every person who compounds, converts, produces, derives, processes, or prepares, either directly or indirectly by chemical extraction or independently by means of chemical synthesis, any controlled substance - shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years and by a fine up to $50,000"

The clubs sell bho because they want $ and 'tane is all the rage right now. Smart dispensaries, like PIM, do not sell butane extracts because that is technically illegal. 99% of dispensaries do not label their BHO as a butane extract for legal reasons.

My experiences with the two big dispensaries in the county involve being told specifically to never say the word butane, and to lie to the press about how BHO is made, calling it an ice water hash for the reporter.

The good people at Tamisium won't ship their extractors to CA because of this law. They also won't do public demos in the state because of this law.

it almost seems as if some people don't want it being made. as they promote their OWN products.

almost.

i hate what pot smoking has become.

 

[Matt Rize]

it almost seems as if some people don't want it being made. as they promote their OWN products.
almost.
i hate what pot smoking has become.

Not like I have not heard this before. TRUTH is no one even knows the legality of what they are doing. So here I am. If I wanted to make $ I'd be blasting 'tane fdd. Like everyone else.

BHO is twice as profitable for a fraction of the time. But I am too skinny for prison, I'd never make it.

 

[fdd2blk]

Not like I have not heard this before. TRUTH is no one even knows the legality of what they are doing. So here I am. If I wanted to make $ I'd be blasting 'tane fdd. Like everyone else. BHO is twice as profitable for a fraction of the time.

money is NEVER a factor in anything i do. never. i have plenty already.



i was speaking of ASA pushing butane extractions as felony. i was speaking of "named" clubs either selling or not selling it based on "what it is". it's all just pot and once again lines are being drawn within the pot smokers. now we got ice water extractors hating on the butane guys. "you're gonna DIE!!!!" all we need now is for HMK to show up.

it's STUPID what pot smoking has become.

 

[Matt Rize]

money is NEVER a factor in anything i do. never. i have plenty already.
of course you took it personally.
i was speaking of ASA pushing butane extractions as felony. i was speaking of "named" clubs either selling or not selling it based on "what it is". it's all just pot and once again lines are being drawn within the pot smokers. now we got ioce water extractors hating on the butane guys. "you're gonna DIE!!!!"

it's STUPID what pot smoking has become.

I wasn't saying anything about you. I was saying, if i had bigger balls I'd be blasting tane because I could be pulling in twice as much money, thats a fact. I make extracts for a living so I do the calculations.

One of my friends blew up his bho extraction and spent two weeks in the hospital, this was 2 months ago. He still looks hella fucked up. It is personal.

 

[fdd2blk]

I wasn't saying anything about you. I was saying, if i had bigger balls I'd be blasting tane because I could be pulling in twice as much money, thats a fact. I make extracts for a living so I do the calculations.

One of my friends blew up his bho extraction and spent two weeks in the hospital, this was 2 months ago. He still looks hella fucked up. It is personal.

you can blow yourself up putting gas in your lawn mower as well.

not calling your friend stupid, but shit happens. hope he gets better soon.

 

[Matt Rize]

you can blow yourself up putting gas in your lawn mower as well.

not calling your friend stupid, but shit happens. hope he gets better soon.

True, static electricity is the cause of many gas explosions, commonly at gas stations. It applies to bho extractions as well, and is why I suggest grounding both the blasting vessel, the pyrex pan, and yourself. BHO explosion victims are "bhotards", its really not that hard to avoid an explosion if you blast outside. Many hide their extractions tho, because its illegal and sketch looking, this is what leads to the explosions.

 

[fdd2blk]

True, static electricity is the cause of many gas explosions, commonly at gas stations. It applies to bho extractions as well, and is why I suggest grounding both the blasting vessel, the pyrex pan, and yourself. BHO explosion victims are "bhotards", its really not that hard to avoid an explosion if you blast outside. Many hide their extractions tho, because its illegal and sketch looking, this is what leads to the explosions.

proper combustion is what leads to "explosions". such as a confined space that won't allow pressure to escape when the pan does "FLASH". butane vapor flashes and burns off almost immediately. except for the liquid left in the pan. you can walk away from a burning pan of butane in the middle of your kitchen and it will burn itself out. if you don't PANIC and throw napalm everywhere it should be relatively safe. about as safe as refueling your lawn mower.

spreading the fear of felony prosecution could be one of the reasons people try to hide it. maybe ASA should work on making it safer. kinda like abortion. outlaw it and it will only be done in back allies. then people will DIE.