LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

[hyroot]

Sounds like a good way to burn down your house.

At least for me.

I know it can be dangerous. I took a small candle set it in a drinking glass then set that in a big glass bowl and set that on a stand then shook it tough to make sure nothing would fall off then lit the candle. I tried it twice. It worked great. I noticed a positive difference in just a couple hours. I plan on buying the rest of my co2 set up after next paycheck. Noy doing the candle thing. It was interesting to find out that you only need a flame and you dont have to burn a specific type of gas.

 

[okthanks2]

Hey you guys, check this bulb out. I'm pretty sure they only come as T8's in the USA, but they are really nice. I just bought a DIY T8 2 bulb fixture and 2 of these bulbs. For both the fixture and bulbs it was around $30. Puts out a really nice purple light. Right now I have it sitting over my cuttings. I have yet to try out the Fiji's but spectrum wise it seems like there is not much difference between the Sylvania Gro-Lux and the Fiji Purple.

 

[okthanks2]

Found this today:

"During photosynthesis, wavelengths in the blue (440 nm) and red (660 nm) spectrum are the most important. For plant growth and development, red (660 nm) and far-red (735 nm) rays promote stem growth and flowering, while blue rays (435 nm) encourage leaf formation and dark green foliage. Plants must have all these wavelengths in the right amounts to grow properly.

Blue rays (440 nm) are primarily responsible for a phenomenon called phototropism, which refers to the movement of part of a plant in response to light. Just think of how a sunflower follows the sun and how indoor plants "reach" for light when they don’t get enough."

(Today when I put my cuttings under the FloraSun's and the Coral Sun's the first leaflet of every fan leaf was sticking straight up in the air after about 2 hours. All the leaves were "V" shaped reaching for the light. Never seen anything like it! I just moved a few cuttings under the Sylvania Gro-Lux bulbs to see if they keep reaching for the light, if not, I will be adding a Coral Sun or equivalent bulb to the sides of the T8 fixture to see if they are the ones responsible for the reach.

I have some UVL, KZ, ATI, and WavePoint bulbs on order. I should have them by next week. I'm going to see how they compare to the ZooMed and Sylvania Gro-Lux bulbs because in the long run it would be nice to not spend $20 and $30 per 2 ft bulb in the future. I'm pretty sure the ZooMed bulbs are between $12 and $15 each. I've also found some really nice 4 ft, 10 bulb T5, DIY fixtures for $348 each that I will be looking in to. They come with a 95% reflector. They are nice because the whole underside with bulbs folds down like a doorway so you can access the ballast components.

About the T8 Gro-Lux's, they have a bulb life of 30,000 hours! Thats pushing LED bulb life almost! If anyone knows where to get the Gro-Lux T5's in the USA, please do tell.

Another VERY IMPORTANT thing about the Gro-Lux bulbs is the MODEL #. There are a couple different versions of the Gro-Lux out there. One is called a "wide-spectrum" and is completely worthless. The one that isn't worthless is the "standard narrow spectrum." The model # of the ones I bought is: F017/GRO/AQ/ECO/2/24

The F017 stands for 17 watts. The GRO stands for gro-lux. The AQ stands for Aquarium. The ECO stands for Ecologic (not sure what that is.) LOL
IF THE MODEL NUMBER HAS THE LETTERS "WS" IN IT, THEN IT IS THE "WIDE SPECTRUM" BULB AND YOU DO NOT WANT THAT ONE.

Keep in mind these are T8 bulbs because I cannot find the T5 bulbs here in the USA. They are also NOT HIGH OUTPUT. I am using them for cuttings only to try and save a little space and energy. I will keep a cutting under these lights for a few weeks to grow it out and to see the quality and potential of them. I will also be starting some lettuce and chard under them to see if they have enough power.

I am 100% sure the reason plants are reaching up to the actinic's (Coral Wave and Coral Sun) lamps is because they are actinic bulbs and have that 435nm peak in them. To me, leaves that are reaching like that mean one thing, "HAPPINESS!" Any plants that I have seen reaching for the light have always grown faster, healthier, and greener than ones that are not reaching out. I know that the subject about including the 420's has been somewhat debated and questioned in this thread. I'm still not quite sure how harmful the UV rays are in the actinic bulbs, but I really can't imagine that bulb companies would manufacture anything that would be detrimental to plants, fish, or humans, and sell it to the general public for plant/aquarium use.

I would also like to say that I would guess the main reason that T5 HO fixtures come with 6500K and 3000K standard bulbs is because they "work" and are very inexpensive. It would be interesting to calculate exactly how much of the light is being wasted as "yellow, green, orange" (white) light in brands like Spectralux and Quantum in these standard daylight bulbs. Either way, I'm still having a hard time accepting the fact that "aquarium bulbs" work better only because they have never been marketed as "gardening bulbs" and yet have been around for such a long time. I just don't get it........anyone else?

 

[falcon223]

Well Okthanks, the prof is in this thread. The aquarium bulbs are letting us dial in the PAR. much like LEDs. I cant wait to get a good T5 set up to do this. I will be running a professor type of research. Just got to save a little more money.I am only interested in the flower stage of performance. I have bin vegging under T8s with good results. My 600 watt HPS is a electricity eating whore. I all so hope to save money with the T5s, on my light bill. If they [T5s] save on electricity, then they will pay for there self,if they flower like the other growers here are saying, and they have some amazing pics.
I really love this forum. So glad the professor started this thread. It seams to be just what I am looking for.
Wow am I ever rambling on, and I don't even get stoned, don't like it.

 

[falcon223]

Sorry Okthanks. I think I see what you are saying about why nobody using the aquarium bulbs before.
I don't get it ether, guess the aquarium people want to keep this to there selfs.And none of us where sober enough to look at them seriously.
Like I sead, I am so glad the Professor did the research. Now we know.

 

[PetFlora]

Found this today:

"During photosynthesis, wavelengths in the blue (440 nm) and red (660 nm) spectrum are the most important. For plant growth and development, red (660 nm) and far-red (735 nm) rays promote stem growth and flowering, while blue rays (435 nm) encourage leaf formation and dark green foliage. Plants must have all these wavelengths in the right amounts to grow properly.

Blue rays (440 nm) are primarily responsible for a phenomenon called phototropism, which refers to the movement of part of a plant in response to light. Just think of how a sunflower follows the sun and how indoor plants "reach" for light when they don’t get enough."

(Today when I put my cuttings under the FloraSun's and the Coral Sun's the first leaflet of every fan leaf was sticking straight up in the air after about 2 hours. All the leaves were "V" shaped reaching for the light. Never seen anything like it! I just moved a few cuttings under the Sylvania Gro-Lux bulbs to see if they keep reaching for the light, if not, I will be adding a Coral Sun or equivalent bulb to the sides of the T8 fixture to see if they are the ones responsible for the reach.

I have some UVL, KZ, ATI, and WavePoint bulbs on order. I should have them by next week. I'm going to see how they compare to the ZooMed and Sylvania Gro-Lux bulbs because in the long run it would be nice to not spend $20 and $30 per 2 ft bulb in the future. I'm pretty sure the ZooMed bulbs are between $12 and $15 each. I've also found some really nice 4 ft, 10 bulb T5, DIY fixtures for $348 each that I will be looking in to. They come with a 95% reflector. They are nice because the whole underside with bulbs folds down like a doorway so you can access the ballast components.

About the T8 Gro-Lux's, they have a bulb life of 30,000 hours! Thats pushing LED bulb life almost! If anyone knows where to get the Gro-Lux T5's in the USA, please do tell.

Another VERY IMPORTANT thing about the Gro-Lux bulbs is the MODEL #. There are a couple different versions of the Gro-Lux out there. One is called a "wide-spectrum" and is completely worthless. The one that isn't worthless is the "standard narrow spectrum." The model # of the ones I bought is: F017/GRO/AQ/ECO/2/24

The F017 stands for 17 watts. The GRO stands for gro-lux. The AQ stands for Aquarium. The ECO stands for Ecologic (not sure what that is.) LOL
IF THE MODEL NUMBER HAS THE LETTERS "WS" IN IT, THEN IT IS THE "WIDE SPECTRUM" BULB AND YOU DO NOT WANT THAT ONE.

Keep in mind these are T8 bulbs because I cannot find the T5 bulbs here in the USA. They are also NOT HIGH OUTPUT. I am using them for cuttings only to try and save a little space and energy. I will keep a cutting under these lights for a few weeks to grow it out and to see the quality and potential of them. I will also be starting some lettuce and chard under them to see if they have enough power.

I am 100% sure the reason plants are reaching up to the actinic's (Coral Wave and Coral Sun) lamps is because they are actinic bulbs and have that 435nm peak in them. To me, leaves that are reaching like that mean one thing, "HAPPINESS!" Any plants that I have seen reaching for the light have always grown faster, healthier, and greener than ones that are not reaching out. I know that the subject about including the 420's has been somewhat debated and questioned in this thread. I'm still not quite sure how harmful the UV rays are in the actinic bulbs, but I really can't imagine that bulb companies would manufacture anything that would be detrimental to plants, fish, or humans, and sell it to the general public for plant/aquarium use.

I would also like to say that I would guess the main reason that T5 HO fixtures come with 6500K and 3000K standard bulbs is because they "work" and are very inexpensive. It would be interesting to calculate exactly how much of the light is being wasted as "yellow, green, orange" (white) light in brands like Spectralux and Quantum in these standard daylight bulbs. Either way, I'm still having a hard time accepting the fact that "aquarium bulbs" work better only because they have never been marketed as "gardening bulbs" and yet have been around for such a long time. I just don't get it........anyone else?

Keep in mind that mj is a unique type of horticulture. Just as most nutrients are not formulated specifically for mj, neither are horticulture bulbs.

 

[Lucius Vorenus]

Had 20 bulbs on order with Aquarium Speciality. A week and a half later they were kind enough to email and say they won't be in stock for awhile. Unreal.

Where else to try?

 

[okthanks2]

Had 20 bulbs on order with Aquarium Speciality. A week and a half later they were kind enough to email and say they won't be in stock for awhile. Unreal.

Where else to try?

Wow, unreal, seems like if you are going to have a successful internet business you would keep an updated inventory. Hmm, anyway, Aquacave, DT aquarium, Marinedepot(updated inventory), BulkReefSupply, PremiumAquatics, Foster and Smith, AquaticsElite.

That should be enough to find a few instock for ya! Good luck, I've already had to cancel a few orders to find ones that are actually available as well.

 

[pr0fesseur]

Wow, unreal, seems like if you are going to have a successful internet business you would keep an updated inventory. Hmm, anyway, Aquacave, DT aquarium, Marinedepot(updated inventory), BulkReefSupply, PremiumAquatics, Foster and Smith, AquaticsElite.

That should be enough to find a few instock for ya! Good luck, I've already had to cancel a few orders to find ones that are actually available as well.

THanks for the UPdate on suppliers im always bugged for lists....
Its good to see some new faces here. Im not gone and shouldent be forgotten...
I do however travel Extensively lately so i am peeking in every once in a while.. you know to make sure this thread stays confrontation free.
I DO not tollerate flaming or arguing here so if you feel the need to argue a point take it somewhere else....(not you okthanks2..)
its great to see that my efforts have not fallen on deaf ears. I am very fortunate to have such dedicated people taking over for me to help others (petflora, DWC, Altarnation, lucius, hyroot, organicbynature.) if i missed you please dont take it as an insult...
This forum is meant to share our experience with others please do this. DO NOT let all my hard work turn into a hangout for flaming and knuckleheads trying to prove whatever method they use is better... they all work... mine just works better
Please feel free to msg me for immediate concerns. if i dont reply i probably am traveling. and will reply when i get time.
I applaud EVERYONE for embracing this concept and expect you to share with everyone your great results. not for fame but for the community... sure id like my name and face on a magazine, but only to help others grow medicine and become independently healthy.
I am really not a fan of HID and never truly embraced the rhetoric or the hype... i am glad other have opened theyre eyes and wallets to embrace something that could have been pure junk science.. for those of you that have spent what im sure is hundreds of dollars i applaud your boldness, and hope that i have not lead you to a decision that you will regret.

-Pr0f-

 

[okthanks2]

pr0fesseur: In your signature you have a Fiji Purple listed as 630 & 440nm wavelengths and the Pro Color for the 660nm.

The Fiji Purple already has the 660nm as one of its main peaks.

Not sure if you caught that, but it seems like since the Pro Color has been d/c'd you could get by without it altogether. If need be, the ZooMed Flora Sun has a similar range.

ALSO, for anyone that still has doubts about using T5 aquarium bulbs for growing: The GE 6500K and 3000K bulbs that grow stores sell for gardening are ALSO sold as aquarium bulbs. Here are the spectrum graphs for both of these T5 HO bulbs:
GE 6500k T5 HO

GE 3000k T5 HO

As you can see, the T5 bulbs that have been recommended in this thread have a much better spectrum that plants need for photosynthesis. I'm not sure how much more proof is needed. At the beginning of this thread I saw that a few people were saying aquarium bulbs don't work for growing, yet they recommended using them. LOL

 

[okthanks2]

I also would like to add that in this thread it was mentioned a few times that the Wavepoint Coral Wave bulb should NOT be used during veg because of the risk of triggering flowering due to the IR output. If your plants are flowering during the vegetative period, I would tend to think that you have an auto-flowering strain. I could be wrong, and the only way to find out is to experiment. There's my $0.02
Have a great day!

 

[organicbynature]

pr0fesseur: In your signature you have a Fiji Purple listed as 630 & 440nm wavelengths and the Pro Color for the 660nm.

The Fiji Purple already has the 660nm as one of its main peaks.

I'm going to jump in again and point out that there is no spectrum graph for the Fiji Purple. The graph that is floating around on the internet is for another bulb and has been mislabeled and spread around.

There is no public information on the spectral output of the Fiji Purple.

 

[organicbynature]

I also would like to add that in this thread it was mentioned a few times that the Wavepoint Coral Wave bulb should NOT be used during veg because of the risk of triggering flowering due to the IR output. I have to disagree with this because the IR that these bulbs give off is EXTREMELY SMALL. The Coral Wave is an actinic bulb. If your plants are flowering during the vegetative period, I would tend to think that you have an auto-flowering strain. I could be wrong, and the only way to find out is to experiment, but it REALLY doesn't seem like these bulbs would trigger flowering since they are actinic. I would still recommend using the UVL Red Sun's for the main red spectrum in flowering and NOT the Coral Wave. There's my $0.02
Have a great day!

It also seems unlikely to me that this would induce flowering, but it sounded like he (was it hyroot? I can't find it now) was speaking from experience. I'm not going to test it myself, because I have some Zoo Med Coral Suns (Super Actinics) that I got for $10 ea. I'd rather use those for veg than the Coral Waves.

I suspect any super actinic on the market would be a better veg bulb than the Coral Wave.

Will the Coral Waves put your veg plants into flower? Try it out and let us know your experience!

 

[organicbynature]

Moving on, one question I had after reading all the pages of this thread is if your half way into flowering, and currently using HPS, would adding some lighting in the "cool" range help things? This isn't ideal but for someone who doesn't want to switch out lighting so late into flowering.

HPS bulbs don't have much in the blue spectrum, particularly at the lower wavelengths. Go ahead and add some!

I have a 4x4 tent going right now with a 400 watt HPS on top and two, 4-bulb, 4" T5 fixtures hanging on opposing sides (for another 400 watts total of T5 side-lighting). I'm only a couple weeks in, but it sure is bright in there!

To quote the Prof:

Remember that actinic and uv help with resin production.

 

[hyroot]

I also would like to add that in this thread it was mentioned a few times that the Wavepoint Coral Wave bulb should NOT be used during veg because of the risk of triggering flowering due to the IR output. If your plants are flowering during the vegetative period, I would tend to think that you have an auto-flowering strain. I could be wrong, and the only way to find out is to experiment. There's my $0.02
Have a great day!

Definitely no autos here. ive had these strains for a long time. Google search infrared experiments with plants at texas a&m. Infrared def drives flowering. Thats why they start flowering in the first few days instead of the 2nd week. During flower period.

 

[okthanks2]

Definitely no autos here. ive had these strains for a long time. Google search infrared experiments with plants at texas a&m. Infrared def drives flowering. Thats why they start flowering in the first few days instead of the 2nd week. During flower period.

I see that now. Thank you for clearing that up.

I am wondering if the Actinic bulbs help with vegging or are they just for the last 2 weeks of flower to help resin production. I had a couple actinics in my fixture, but I just took them out because I was concerned about the UVA AND UVB damaging the leaves or something, anyone have any input? Experience?

 

[organicbynature]

I see that now. Thank you for clearing that up.

I am wondering if the Actinic bulbs help with vegging or are they just for the last 2 weeks of flower to help resin production. I had a couple actinics in my fixture, but I just took them out because I was concerned about the UVA AND UVB damaging the leaves or something, anyone have any input? Experience?

The actinics are focused around 420 nm, which is very important for photosynthesis, particularly during veg.

 

[okthanks2]

Contacted KZ to try to get the Fiji Purple spectrum today. They responded saying their bulbs are the best for coral and do not share the spectrum outside the company. LOL I don't understand why someone would keep that a secret, sure seems weird. Anyway, couldn't even get one of the peak nm out of them. Is there a way to break the peaks down with some sort of light meter?

 

[Dont Fear The Reefer]

same response I gopt a few days ago... Seems like they would be getting so many requests they would share this info.?

 

[Calrt]

same response I gopt a few days ago... Seems like they would be getting so many requests they would share this info.?

Maybe they don't know?