HPS Bulb Differences?

[RoadhouseToker]

i was just browsing different sights to find a hps for a good price and i found a 400w hps for $20! is this too good to be true?
is there different types of hps? the one for $20 says it puts out 50000 lumens and it looks the same as many i have seen
used in the pictures on here. i also dont know if the base type might have something to do with it. any insight on this matter?

 

[hyroot]

lumens don't mean shit! lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. we see greens an yellows. plants see reds and blues. what you want is high PAR. photosynthetically availavable radiation. - the number of photons between 400nm and 700nm. also some uv-a around 380nm and some ir around 740nm or 760 nm. so far for hps all i found with best spectrum is the digiliux enhanced blue hps. basically you want bulbs high blues and reds. low greens and yellows.

In the u.k. and the netherlands they are using high par hid bulbs but you would have to do some research on which ones. order from there. it will be a few years until there are good spectrum hps bulbs available in the U.S. you can find some great mh bulbs from aquarium shops though..

.http://www.hellolights.com/Radium-400.aspx



personally i use t5 lights with aquarium bulbs. got rid of my hid's. (better spectrum- more usable light - better quality)

 

[phillipchristian]

lumens don't mean shit! lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. we see greens an yellows. plants see reds and blues. what you want is high PAR. photosynthetically availavable radiation. - the number of photons between 400nm and 700nm. also some uv-a around 380nm and some ir around 740nm or 760 nm. so far for hps all i found with best spectrum is the digiliux enhanced blue hps. basically you want bulbs high blues and reds. low greens and yellows.

In the u.k. and the netherlands they are using high par hid bulbs but you would have to do some research on which ones. order from there. it will be a few years until there are good spectrum hps and mh bulbs available in the U.S.

personally i use t5 lights with aquarium bulbs. got rid of my hid's. (better spectrum- more usable light - better quality)

I'm going to STRONGLY disagree with ALL of this. To the OP; in bulbs as with in a lot of things; higher quality will cost more but also give you better results. Spend the extra money for a Hortilux, Digilux, Sunmaster, etc... bulb. They will last longer and produce a broader spectrum for you.

 

[hyroot]

I'm going to STRONGLY disagree with ALL of this. To the OP; in bulbs as with in a lot of things; higher quality will cost more but also give you better results. Spend the extra money for a Hortilux, Digilux, Sunmaster, etc... bulb. They will last longer and produce a broader spectrum for you.

here is some documented proof from horticulturists, botanist and scientists with phd's to back it all up. Id rather get my knowledge from a scientist than a pothead

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-3054.1968.tb07348.x/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-1097.1987.tb04757.x/abstract

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6696642

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/11/3107.full

http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios100/lecturesf04am/lect10.htm

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/php.1987.46.issue-2/issuetoc



this is the spectrum that plants use

View attachment 2087780



this is a hortilux 1000w . notice all that wasted light in the hortilux. only 10%PAr

 

[polyarcturus]

lumens don't mean shit! lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. we see greens an yellows. plants see reds and blues. what you want is high PAR. photosynthetically availavable radiation. - the number of photons between 400nm and 700nm. also some uv-a around 380nm and some ir around 740nm or 760 nm. so far for hps all i found with best spectrum is the digiliux enhanced blue hps. basically you want bulbs high blues and reds. low greens and yellows.

In the u.k. and the netherlands they are using high par hid bulbs but you would have to do some research on which ones. order from there. it will be a few years until there are good spectrum hps bulbs available in the U.S. you can find some great mh bulbs from aquarium shops though..

.http://www.hellolights.com/Radium-400.aspx
View attachment 2087754


personally i use t5 lights with aquarium bulbs. got rid of my hid's. (better spectrum- more usable light - better quality)

wtf? wow got rid of my hid for better for t5s with coral bulbs wow thats a first. not believing this BS for a second

 

[polyarcturus]

dont disagree with uvb but you need more distance, color, and density of light than just t5 for big ass plants small//medium plants yeah there good but i would not just buy coral bulbs. plus the results between a 400 mh and t5 250w fluoro are pretty much the same but the difference between 1000w mh and 500w fluoro will never be equal. in simple words t5 doesnt have the distance of HID.

but this isnt battle of the bulbs(cuz i like them all as they all have their purposes) but your research on light spectrum may be misinformed

 

[hyroot]

wtf? wow got rid of my hid for better for t5s with coral bulbs wow thats a first. not believing this BS for a second

/
how is that misinformed. i layed out documented facts and proof and yet you didnt even read it or look at it.

i did a side by side with a t5 and 1000w with hortilux for 4 batches.the yield was the same each time per area and plant except for the first batch where hps yielded 10% more but used shitty soil that time. the quality of t5 has far surpasseed hps.


look at my journal or go to thread

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/358190-led-without-leds-my-first.html. i

t5's with coral and fresh wateral bulbs already been proven and documented several times by me and other people on here and scientists at University of Maryland, University of Missouri, Washington State, Texas A&M, University of Alabama, oxford University.. read the articles i posted before passing judgement with such an ignorant response. hid is 10 % PAR. my t5's are 90% PAR. the sun is !00% PAR


I do keep my t5 3 inches from canopy. yes hps will have more intensity because its a single point of light.

inverse square law.http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/isq.html

the t5 also acts like a light mover where its not a single point of light and the light output is across 4 ft. way less heat and like having it closer. the buds actually do get bigger under the t5. provided you get enough oxygen to the roots.


Im just saying what I do, i answered the hps question with facts not myth. do what you want or what ever works for you.


also I have to wear uv glasses when in the garden. all the uv-a ,uv-b, and infrared is very bad for the eyes

 

[Icannabis]

hey scientist I know this is not your responsibility mop the rest of this shit up?

 

[phillipchristian]

here is some documented proof from horticulturists, botanist and scientists with phd's to back it all up. Id rather get my knowledge from a scientist than a pothead

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-3054.1968.tb07348.x/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-1097.1987.tb04757.x/abstract

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6696642

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/11/3107.full

http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios100/lecturesf04am/lect10.htm

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/php.1987.46.issue-2/issuetoc



this is the spectrum that plants use

View attachment 2087780View attachment 2087781



this is a hortilux 1000w . notice all that wasted light in the hortilux. only 10%PAr
View attachment 2087783

Thanks for the info but I'm not a pothead. I'm actually a very sucessful high end real estate developer and I also own an import company in Central America.

Unless you are growing SOG or SCROG then a T5 light will never give you sufficient penetration to produce anything but popcorn buds. The information you posted is interesting and I'm going through it right now but you take one of my plants and stick it under a T5 with 8 bulbs and another one under a 600w HPS it;s not even going to be a comparison. You are speaking to a very small niche in the grow market. I agree with the study regarding UVB light and this is why it's been in my flower room for almost 3 years. As far as T5 daylight bulbs producing a better spectrum; you may be on to something. I'm just not in the mood too replace 1 1000w HID light with 5 8lamps 4' T5 fixtures per plant. That's about the only way you are going to get the penetration and disbursment you would need.

 

[hyroot]

Thanks for the info but I'm not a pothead. I'm actually a very sucessful high end real estate developer and I also own an import company in Central America.

Unless you are growing SOG or SCROG then a T5 light will never give you sufficient penetration to produce anything but popcorn buds. The information you posted is interesting and I'm going through it right now but you take one of my plants and stick it under a T5 with 8 bulbs and another one under a 600w HPS it;s not even going to be a comparison. You are speaking to a very small niche in the grow market. I agree with the study regarding UVB light and this is why it's been in my flower room for almost 3 years. As far as T5 daylight bulbs producing a better spectrum; you may be on to something. I'm just not in the mood too replace 1 1000w HID light with 5 8lamps 4' T5 fixtures per plant. That's about the only way you are going to get the penetration and disbursment you would need.

1 8 bulb will produce the same yield per plant but better quality. i do sog in one room and big 3 x 2 footers in the other. using t5's. i do all indica's too. 2 8 bulbs or a 16 bulb will have the same coverage area of 1000w but cover better since its not a single point of light. and less wattage and almost no heat in comparison.


Im not saying go out and replace everything. I do love my t5's though... my point is that spectrum is the most important thing in lighting regardless of what you use. Lumens is prehistoric way of explaing how we see light. almost like greek mythology. Unfortunaltely there is not really any good spectrum hps. there are alot of awesome mh's. the aquarium world has spent 25 years of research and development. but corals mostly use the blue end at 420nm and 450nm. Recently companies started making fresh water bulbs with more of red at the 660 nm. where there are several at 630nm but only a few at 660nm.

Chlorophyll A makes up 75% of chlorophyll and between 660nm and 700nm is where chlorophyll absorbs the most light. then the blue end there are more photons than anywhere and contributes to co2 absorption and promotes terpene production in turn thc, cbd, cbn , cbe , etc.... plants doe absorb about 20% of green and yellow. when those are present more photons can be absorbed by the plant. that's one of the problems with led. no green, yellow, or amber.

 

[tehgenoc1de]

Well all those commercial growers have been wasting their time with HID lighting....

Show me a warehouse of T5s.

 

[hyroot]

Well all those commercial growers have been wasting their time with HID lighting....

Show me a warehouse of T5s.

all over europe. the middle east, canada, oregon, washington, colorado, maryland, alsaka and cali. theres actually quite alot of places that grow spinach, lettuce, basil, etc with only leds. electricity is more cost effective,. no heat, more usable light. if they are used for a businesses. 50% of the costs are tax deductable.

there are tons of articles in urban garden and maximum yield of warehouses doing just that.

 

[mantiszn]

here lads..

this may help you...

 

[RoadhouseToker]

personally i use t5 lights with aquarium bulbs. got rid of my hid's. (better spectrum- more usable light - better quality)[/QUOTE]


if i do a t5 light setup, where could i find 4' fuji purple t5's?
i found all of the other lights that were talked about in that
article but not the fuji purple. if there isnt 4' fugi's, is there
a suitable replacement?

 

[richinweed]

lumens don't mean shit! lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. we see greens an yellows. plants see reds and blues. what you want is high PAR. photosynthetically availavable radiation. - the number of photons between 400nm and 700nm. also some uv-a around 380nm and some ir around 740nm or 760 nm. so far for hps all i found with best spectrum is the digiliux enhanced blue hps. basically you want bulbs high blues and reds. low greens and yellows.

In the u.k. and the netherlands they are using high par hid bulbs but you would have to do some research on which ones. order from there. it will be a few years until there are good spectrum hps bulbs available in the U.S. you can find some great mh bulbs from aquarium shops though..

.http://www.hellolights.com/Radium-400.aspx
View attachment 2087754


personally i use t5 lights with aquarium bulbs. got rid of my hid's. (better spectrum- more usable light - better quality)

it will be a few years before hps has good spectrums.......U my friend are bakcwards ..'WE' were using flouros years ago evan the ho par stuff....so you are saying nearly every commercial big boy crop with big boy lights 600/1000hps is growing dope in a lousy spectrum..."everybody" moved from flourecents because of the clearly limited yield they produce..and guess what all the big boys use .....hps with watt per gram ratios that put closet "toy" lights to shame...clearly u have never had anything to compare florecent grows to or you would never make such a clearly nooob statement.

 

[phillipchristian]

I'll give it up to Hyroot. He makes a hell of an argument and has actually provided a lot a really useful information. An cool colored charts too!

here's my thing; and be honest. Are you telling me that a 6 lamp 4' T5 can replace my 1000w bulb? How am I going to grow 6' tall plants under a T5? There is no penetration at all. I can see how it works great in a SOG or a SCROG but for us TREE growers I really don't see one of those being able to adequately light a taller plant. Let alone 6-9 of them which is how many my 1000w does.

 

[Warlock1369]

T5's are great. Not a high power usage and like hyroot said PAR is what you really need to look at. HID's are far better but the cost isn't. For the same price of 1 hid you can get 3 T5 setups witch with the distance needed for heat put out the same useable lumens. I use them both in my rooms. So here are the Pros for T5 cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. Greater PAR per watt temps are low and easy to keep in grow range. Cons. That many lights are hard to position to work properly. Don't peniteate the canopy well so side mounted lights are needed for large grows. The extra plugs and wires add to any fire dangers. Now for the HID pros. 1 fixture can be used to penetrate upto 3 feet of canopy. Less work needed to keep the lights off the plants. It's always easyer to change 1 bulb then 30 tubes. Cons. Higher heat. More power used to run. The bulb goes out your in the dark. Replacement parts arnt cheep. not all can be used in any position.

There are many more I could add but don't feel like it. IMO with the proper wattage both are the same and will yield the same. Just one is more work to change and the other is more work to cool. Like I said I use both and will not say one is better then the other. I think it comes down to how much work you want to do.

 

[hyroot]

it will be a few years before hps has good spectrums.......U my friend are bakcwards ..'WE' were using flouros years ago evan the ho par stuff....so you are saying nearly every commercial big boy crop with big boy lights 600/1000hps is growing dope in a lousy spectrum..."everybody" moved from flourecents because of the clearly limited yield they produce..and guess what all the big boys use .....hps with watt per gram ratios that put closet "toy" lights to shame...clearly u have never had anything to compare florecent grows to or you would never make such a clearly nooob statement.

Another ignorant statement. For one. The floros from the hydro shop are crap. They have red at 610nm and put out more gren than anytng. Thats just wasted light. You have not been using aquarium floros for years. A couple years ago they came out with 630 nm ree bulbs. Uust in the last 6 months they started making 660nm bulbs. Prior wasvthe ati pro color. The 4 ft ones were discontined. So you my friend are ass backwards. Its a proven fact that hps have very poor spectrum and PAR. Why do you think so many hid users have switched to led or t5 or add supplemental lighting.


Even jorge, rosenthal, emery, and just about all universities say the same thing. Theres even a video of rosenthal giving a speech about spectrum and uvb on you tube.

READ A BOOK!!!! Dont make asenine commentaries


In my last harvest I pulled 8.5 oz in 2 x 4. I still have around a qper hanging on top of that. That strain took longer. So thats around 12.5 off 8 3 footers under and 8 bulb. 2 korrallen zucht fiji purple, 3 zoo med flora suns. 2 uvl redsuns, 1 wave point coral ave.

 

[hyroot]

Bulbs can be bough from aquarium specialty, hellolights, marine depot, aquarium guys, petco, dr. Foster smith.

 

[polyarcturus]

T5's are great. Not a high power usage and like hyroot said PAR is what you really need to look at. HID's are far better but the cost isn't. For the same price of 1 hid you can get 3 T5 setups witch with the distance needed for heat put out the same useable lumens. I use them both in my rooms. So here are the Pros for T5 cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. Greater PAR per watt temps are low and easy to keep in grow range. Cons. That many lights are hard to position to work properly. Don't peniteate the canopy well so side mounted lights are needed for large grows. The extra plugs and wires add to any fire dangers. Now for the HID pros. 1 fixture can be used to penetrate upto 3 feet of canopy. Less work needed to keep the lights off the plants. It's always easyer to change 1 bulb then 30 tubes. Cons. Higher heat. More power used to run. The bulb goes out your in the dark. Replacement parts arnt cheep. not all can be used in any position.

There are many more I could add but don't feel like it. IMO with the proper wattage both are the same and will yield the same. Just one is more work to change and the other is more work to cool. Like I said I use both and will not say one is better then the other. I think it comes down to how much work you want to do.

too true

hey hyroot wast trying to be an ass earlier i mean i know i would use coral bulbs in combo with other bulbs. i thought you where telling him to just get a deep blue bulb. but if he goes the t5 route he will need all types of spectrum bulbs. as far as deep blue mh i have never messed with it but i know regular Mh offers more spectrum(and a decent amount of uva) and CMH more than that(no uv tho)