The last thing we need as the people is for the government to be "Compromising"

[deprave]

Id tend to think of the view point that I stand on as a realist application of policies based on the events of the past that shape the world today seen and unseen. There was a reason the federal government was empowered in the first place. I see it as failure of Human implementation and you see it as a failure of ideology. That is the most simple point that divides us. Its not all that different but there is a difference and mostly that difference is applied to what actions should be taken. Now a long term downsizing would be more then efficient but most of the arguments made on the other side are based on a knee jerk reaction to shut down government branches tomorrow. Not realizing the implications of the decisions.

Im telling you that the system works, you just have to put the work into it. Not scream total ideological failure because the true instructions of the ideology were NEVER fully implemented.

The failure of citizens to realize we are no longer the ONE MEGA SUPERPOWER of the world but rather the first among equals. Domestic policies severely affect foreign policy and international relationships. You have to look at the whole picture of the system not just some of the moving parts. Want a example. The mishandling of every nationalist entity the U.S. has ran into. China, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea and so on.

What your truly afraid of is what Eisenhower warned against in his farewell address.

Your argument does not surprise me, this is really the state writing here to me.(see text in red).... I mean that is in progpadna that leads you to believe this, its not natural, to argue with pure philosophy, it gives you gratification to say hmmphhh philosophy is wrong and ideology is correct. Question, How come ideologies have never worked? How do you plan to make people participate and less dumb? Why and how will this change? Again why would this be the exception to thousands of years? So what is your ideology to change the world?

People with bad intentions, who crave power, who are "evil", what do they think of a monopoly of power that is uncountable for its actions? Governments are like giant piles of shit if these evil people were flies. They are drawn to it, good people don't care about this shit, evil people don't care about ethics.

I will go on to say that Philosophy is not "bitching" or "complaining" nor is it being negative. It is invaluable truths. Look, you can't change the way the world works as ideolgy tries to do but with Philosophy you can really change the world by implementing it into your everyday life, by teaching children for example principles of non-violence, and by bearing that to those in your life. Living liberty isn't something you can just hope to come to you, and you really just can't hope the world will change and become different by an ideology either.

Another philosophical argument against the state, the true power is consensus, this is why we have the brain washing main stream media and state schools, this is why democracy has been perverted. This is why we have people like you with your eyes glazed over reaching for every straw they can find to argue in favor of the state and to dispute pure philosopical truths, This is why there is violence, this is why there is disdain and hatred amongst eachother, You know it is wrong but you are trained to think it is right!

Aside from all that you have sit here and argued with me on plain truths that can not be disputed,I hope you have a better understanding of why you did this now, but I am a shitty writer so I am sure it did not come across correct. Again this is the state talking here. Just look at what your wrote in red. Pathetic and not naturual! (learned/trained behavior and thoughts).

By saying this is the state talking to me I don't mean that as an insult or something. I mean that WE...yes..WE ARE THE STATE! When people support these mafia systems, when they say that their neighbor could be raidied by the SWAT with mp40's for a marijuana plant then they are the ones supporting this! They are the ones that breathe life into this entitity called the governement! We are free everyday, the state doesn't interefere with us, untill the day Mr Smith comes knocking at our door from the federal mafia demanding a check or to take you to jail. Until that day you are free, be free and by happy, but the criminality of this can not be denied! So in essence, for liberty to win, for it to change the world, philosophy must become the consensus and that is how liberty will change the world.

[video=youtube;4smim2MNvF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smim2MNvF8[/video]

 

[ThatGuy113]

Philosophies are simply drawing conclusions from self reflection. Im not against them but they are not always correctly applied.

1. I dont think the fact that cable news channels are so poorly run is due to the fact of money not a government conspiracy to keep us down. The fact is people have always been ignorant about the system and the vast majority choose not to care. It is just the simple effects of capitalism. It wasnt planned that the media outlets would lead the people to a zombie like mindset. It was simply people running a business for ratings, ratings are money and money runs a business. If the average person couldn't point out Afghanistan or even Washington D.C. on a map, why would they care about the news. If the news channels didnt try to bend and mold things to seem more appealing they would be stuck with a very small group of consistent listeners. That leads to lower rates you can charge for advertising on air. Less money for growth. No growth means your station is probably going to have a format change and youll lose your job. So the fact is they are not running a information source but rather a business first and a media outlet second. So just like any other good industry would they are always looking for new viewers/listeners(consumers). It just like the political parties. They have their tight nit base that is always there and then they have the middle ground voters who drift in the wind to whatever candidate fits a vague list of characteristics. Subsidizing tons of industries is a capitalistic ideal not a basic Democratic theology.

Your beef is with the ill effects of capitalism not the failures of basic Democracy. I think you should apply that to your philosophical arsenal.

2. How do you suggest we apply it then. Cause you have still not given a alternative besides the assumption of no government. If that's not the case and your ok with a little government.... its still inherently evil right and will always fail. So the basic fact that I am citing the path taken many times to change the country and its society successfully and you sit here and tell me Im buying into the state but offer no other conclusion but to just teach the children of the world how to become a government free Utopian society. I want to actually get things changed so I am going to realize the lessons of the past as well as giving a thought to the restraints of the people who I HAVE to work with in order to pass legislation. Realizing the actual flaws of humans and trying to work with them instead of saying they are totally tainted and cant be worked with. Im sure the Cuban missile crisis could of went a tinge worse if we didnt have a guy in office willing to work with what he had instead of making a knee jerk decision based on irrational thoughts and behaviors in a time of panic.


We both see the weakness of Humans to govern. Weve built a society where people are free to pursue whatever they want and ignore whatever they want. When they ignore the political system for being disenfranchised, they gave the people who you seem to be talking about in government the ability to shape the government after themselves. On top of the fact we have unlimited media sources that allows for people to be continuously out of the loop. Everyone used to read a paper in the morning or listen to broadcasts at night before cable TV. They had 10-15 sources of media Radio/Tv now we literally have unlimited amounts of media resources and extremely little human interaction (no small talk in public places as much any more). People have played in there own fault of loosing the unity of information and the power of the real people. The "evil" people who are up there now were getting elected when everyone else was not voting because it didn't matter. They did the work. Your side didnt.




I see the government system as a tool that can be wielded away from the inherently evil and used to run the country in a different manner but needs to inform and unite the population. We need both a change in government and then a change in society.
You see the government as a tool that no one can wield because it is flawed and will always fail and oppress. So you want to ditch the tool and cause change in society.

 

[sync0s]

Subsidizing tons of industries is a capitalistic ideal not a basic Democratic theology.

Clearly, you don't know what capitalism is by this statement.

 

[ThatGuy113]

Clearly, you don't know what capitalism is by this statement.

I will clear up the thought.

It is a misapplication of (today's)capitalistic ideals. Its my point that you cant blame the system because the basic rules and steps are not fully applied when implementing a system. Capitalism has come that far off from its original context. So has democracy.

 

[deprave]

"Your beef is with the ill effects of capitalism not the failures of Democracy."

No its not just that lol ....This is why I agree with a lot of different points in various anarchist political philosophies. My conclusions are not just that capitalism is the problem but any ideology or government whatsoever. I feel like sometimes some government is okay but I do recognize the flaw with free markets and with capitalism is that it creates monstrous governments, with socialism/communism being the absolute worst. The best is obviously a direct democracy followed by representive democracy but these have all failed enormously. (eventually)

I am really bewildered why you keep asking me to PROVIDE a solution when you have yet to offer one and I offer something in every post, this is just bickering really. What the fuck is your solution really? Sprinkly magic anti-warhol dust everywhere?

 

[sync0s]

The best is obviously a direct democracy followed by representive democracy but these have all failed to varying degrees.

They all fail the same way to. Just the way we are right now.

 

[ThatGuy113]

"Your beef is with the ill effects of capitalism not the failures of Democracy."

No its not just that lol ....This is why I agree with a lot of different points in various anarchist political philosophies. My conclusions are not just that capitalism is the problem but any ideology or government whatsoever. I feel like sometimes some government is okay but I do recognize the flaw with free markets and with capitalism is that it creates monstrous governments, with socialism/communism being the absolute worst. The best is obviously a direct democracy followed by representive democracy but these have all failed enormously. (eventually)

I am really bewildered why you keep asking me to PROVIDE a solution when you have yet to offer one and I offer something in every post, this is just bickering really. What the fuck is your solution really? Sprinkly magic anti-warhol dust everywhere?

My system is not just critiquing and analyzing what we currently have like you are. It is also then applying it to the system itself and changing the system instead of trashing it and hoping that a new system will float our way while we constantly just sit here and come up with ways that the system is inherently flawed producing no change whatsoever. You need to change society not just your group of friends.

We both have a car that needs repair. We both get the same repair estimate and parts list. I go and get those things fixed so I can get on with what I need to do. You on the other hand are questioning if you need a car at all while waiting in the repair shop lobby trying to decide whether or not to fix it at all because all cars are going to break down eventually. Except the lobby doesn't close and you just stay there thinking for days and weeks walking in circles.

 

[ThatGuy113]

• I am really bewildered why you keep asking me to PROVIDE a solution when you have yet to offer one​

  
  
  ​

Ive suggested working within the system to change it. That is my alternative. You can seem to say its flawed but somehow not recognize it as my answer. You have to actually get people involved and get that whole compromise thing going between citizens not politicians.

 

[deprave]

My system is not just critiquing and analyzing what we currently have like you are. It is also then applying it to the system itself and changing the system instead of trashing it and hoping that a new system will float our way while we constantly just sit here and come up with ways that the system is inherently flawed producing no change whatsoever. You need to change society not just your group of friends.

We both have a car that needs repair. We both get the same repair estimate and parts list. I go and get those things fixed so I can get on with what I need to do. You on the other hand are questioning if you need a car at all while waiting in the repair shop lobby trying to decide whether or not to fix it at all because all cars are going to break down eventually. Except the lobby doesn't close and you just stay there thinking for days and weeks walking in circles.

Lmao are you dense? Do you expect me to suggest capitalism, socialism, or some ideology after all that I wrote here. Let me put it bluntly: My proposal is none of the above. We don't need it. Its more like I am fixing the damn car myself and you are depending on a mechnic and going there during specified hours waiting in line. You suggest we all go wait in line promptly, I suggest we each fix our cars ourselves.

 

[deprave]

Ive suggested working within the system to change it. That is my alternative. You can seem to say its flawed but somehow not recognize it as my answer. You have to actually get people involved and get that whole compromise thing going between citizens not politicians.

Yea and how many 10's of thousands of additional years till that happens? How will that happen all the sudden? Your suggestion is more hopeless/radical than mine if history suggests anything.

 

[ThatGuy113]

Yea and how many 10's of thousands of additional years till that happens? How will that happen all the sudden? Your suggestion is more hopeless/radical than mine if history suggests anything.

and before governments it was all so good... lol. We started gathering for a reason and built governments to protect from other groups of people. Government helped make the transition from 100% pure physical aggression to a majority of diplomacy and a minority of physical violence. We as humans are not perfect therefor nothing we could make would be perfect. Your arguing against how we even survived as a species.

 

[deprave]

Government helped make the transition from 100% pure physical aggression to a majority of diplomacy and a minority of physical violence.

Yea I heard feudalism and such was just terrific at stopping violence. Omg ROme and Egypt and Greece wow they were soooo peaceful lol thank god for the governments who brought MASSIVE wars, slavery, and blood bath slaughters.

 

[ThatGuy113]

Government helped make the transition from 100% pure physical aggression to a majority of diplomacy and a minority of physical violence.

Yea I heard feudalism and such was just terrific at stopping violence. lol

No shit. My point is it evolved. Its not done evolving either. Were not the end of the line. Were not that special.

I thought we chalked this up to irreconcilable differences days ago. lol

 

[Parker]

We compromised on slavery. How'd that work out? Course if you ask the slaveholders before 1865 they would be the ones to say pretty good. Theft is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[deprave]

well said parker