Inda-gro Induction...

[chazbolin]

is that a site?

 

[chazbolin]

@chaz can you make an appearance on that Inda-gro grow in grow journals.. cheers ryan

Is that a site?

 

[Buck123]

Definitely hearing and seeing enough.let the haters hate induction for life! Cheers chaz!

 

[chazbolin]

Thanks Buck. I could care less what anyone chooses to grow with. But if they're interested in expanding they're knowledge then they can look at LED or Induction as an energy saving alternative to HID. If it's induction they choose to go with then know the differences between phosphors and what it means to our plants.

Hey Spiff: I came across this video that might help you get a better perspective as to height spacing on the 100 & 200-PARs

[video=youtube;2tQ7f4QQGJ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQ7f4QQGJ4&feature=g-all-u&context=G290cd58FAAAAAAAACAA[/video]

 

[Buck123]

Don't worry man all sorted.. keen to hear whatever ya wanna say about there baby's tho man.. I'm In love <3

 

[chazbolin]

Don't worry man all sorted.. keen to hear whatever ya wanna say about there baby's tho man.. I'm In love <3

What's truly fucked is another bud, OG who runs a 20K watt HPS grow that drops $1,500 every 3-4 months on Eye-Hortilux who would NOT change anything since he's happy with the yields and it was clockwork. Then his 'buddy' who owns the hydro shop where for the last 10 years he buys everything, convinces him to drop $12K to switch to a new nutrient line from Australia and get off the Canna nutes that has always worked predictably well.

I got the call last night; he lost 1/3 of his yield. He IS PISSED. OG is an experienced grower who did everything by the book. He even talked directly to Aptus Plant Tech when he started seeing the weight problems @ week 5 that he was used to seeing with Canna. They dicked him around and he eventually hung up.

The same 'buddy' who convinced him to switch his Canna nutes was the same one who talked shit about Inda-Gro, comparing them to LED panels which convinced him to just stay on Eye-Hortilux for the last two years. There is no doubt now that his 'buddy' has been regularly hosing him for going on 10 years. Lamp replacement is a cash cow that the hydroshops, who are just in it for the profit, will not easily give up. OG called me last night to vent and tell me he's done ever going back in that store again. He already knows what Inda-Gro and Canna can predictably yield for a fuck of a lot less money. Anyone wanna buy 55 gal of nutes?

 

[Splifferous]

Thanks Buck. I could care less what anyone chooses to grow with. But if they're interested in expanding they're knowledge then they can look at LED or Induction as an energy saving alternative to HID. If it's induction they choose to go with then know the differences between phosphors and what it means to our plants.

Hey Spiff: I came across this video that might help you get a better perspective as to height spacing on the 100 & 200-PARs

[video=youtube;2tQ7f4QQGJ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQ7f4QQGJ4&amp;feature=g-all-u&amp;context=G290cd58FAAAAAAAACAA[/video]

Hey Chaz, I saw that video a few days ago. its a hard call by watching the vid tho, because i dont have first hand knowledge of how intense the 100w is vs the 200w. there's also the differences in photosynthetic ability (ie: saturation limit) between lettuce and cannabis. also higher temps boost plant metabolism, and so at 85F the plant can take more intense light than at 75F.

i did increase the drop for the Blue Dream seedling from the 200w by another 6 inches. she seems to have liked it. i've been really busy today, and havent even had a chance to check on veg, much less start integrating the lightrail in to the mix.. i hope to have it all sorted out in the next day or two...

 

[Splifferous]

i know this isn't the forum for nute talk, but i have to agree, Canna nutes are amazing. I turned a friend on to them a few years back and his yield upped by almost 40% on the first run with them, and these were on plants that he had been breeding/growing for the past 25 years - he knew them very well and basically just followed the canna feeding schedule. when i subsequently took over my own growing i went straight to canna/biocanna, full line. Canna Boost is 115$/liter around here, and worth every cent! i showed pics of my ladies in bloom to the friend that supplied the clones, and he was floored! he thought that they were 2 weeks ahead of where they really are! canna and inda-gro is an amazing recipe indeed.

 

[Buck123]

i know this isn't the forum for nute talk, but i have to agree, Canna nutes are amazing. I turned a friend on to them a few years back and his yield upped by almost 40% on the first run with them, and these were on plants that he had been breeding/growing for the past 25 years - he knew them very well and basically just followed the canna feeding schedule. when i subsequently took over my own growing i went straight to canna/biocanna, full line. Canna Boost is 115$/liter around here, and worth every cent! i showed pics of my ladies in bloom to the friend that supplied the clones, and he was floored! he thought that they were 2 weeks ahead of where they really are! canna and inda-gro is an amazing recipe indeed.

@Spliff
Cannaboost=junk! Try something like liquid lead man easier on the pocket @ $30 and better results... Not that i hate on canna i love em.. there additives are somewhat a waste...

@Chaz Yeh man its not hard to figure out the maths lol im happy if they are the equivalent to a 400w hps... proofs in the pud tho and you seem to have got over the GPW... Well done buddy i wanna see some SOG plants done..

 

[Splifferous]

@Buck: care to substantiate your opinion regarding Canna Boost? i researched on many forums before buying my last liter of it, just to be sure that it was still high in the regard of others as well... and it was. and here you come, talking about some stuff that i've never heard of, and that no store near me has ever heard of, and you claim that is better than something that is virtually synonymous with growing quality herb...

so i did a little research, and i found this YouTube video [video=youtube;RaerVg5IpOs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaerVg5IpOs[/video] where the guy feels so solidly about the product (called Finisher here, apparently) that he has to read everything that he has to say about it off of his laptop screen. so then i go to the site plugged in the vid, and use the store locator. it seems that not a single store in Oregon (where I live) sells their stuff. Pretty sad considering that Oregon grows some of the best (in my opinion, THE BEST) herb in the US, and doesn't have a store that offers a single product out of their line up.

I will agree that Cannazym isn't as good as Hygrozyme - even Canna acknowledges that. But beyond that, Canna is the shit. Period.

 

[hyroot]

on the subject of inda gro. If you look at the spd. Its lacking red in the 660nm range and lacking IR which both are needed for flower. between 660nm and 700 nm is where chlorophyl absorbs the most light. So you would still need to use supplment lighting , led or t5. If they tweak the gas a little, they could produce the 660 red.

 

[Buck123]

@spliff just a heads up from a pal who's used canna for nearly 15 years... here's canna's write up and the liquid lead...

We introduced the CANNABOOST Accelerator at the Dutch Highlife Fair 2006. It’s a product that we are proud of! And the first CANNABOOST users who have reacted very positively to the product have further increased this pride. The advantages of growing with CANNABOOST Accelerator include: - Better Yields - Suitable for use with all growing mediums and substrates - Even higher yields in combination with PK 13/14 - Better ripening and strengthened immune system -Fuller, more powerful taste CANNABOOST Accelerator is a product that distinguishes itself from the existing booster products in every aspect and is also typified as being: “The new boost generation”. With this product we have again proved that: Quality proves itself! CANNABOOST is a powerful bloom accelerator that stimulates the fructification. As a result the harvest will be fuller and denser then normal. The yield will be more homogeneous due to a gradual ripening. Besides this CANNABOOST ensures your plants will become healthier, stronger and less prone to diseases and plagues. CANNABOOST stands surety for a higher yield, but also contains flavour enhancing characteristics. Which means CANNABOOST ensures a quantitative and qualitative better produce! Directions of use - Shake bottle well before use - Dosage: Administer the nutrient using a dilution of approximately 1:500 (200 ml per 100 L of water) from the moment that fl owers start to form. For extra flowering strength, dilute 1:250 (400 ml per 100 L of water) - Do not use in combination with products containing hydrogen peroxide (H202) - Use dilluted solution within 7 days - CANNABOOST can be given manually, through drip irrigation or by foliar feeding Storage, health & safety and other directions - Use CANNABOOST in combination with your regular feed - Store closed in a dark and frost-proof place - Keep out of reach of children Warranty / Guarantee The bottle is made of Polyethylene (PVC and cadmium free), an easily biodegradable and recyclable plastic.

 

[Buck123]

http://www.growroom.com.au/shop/additives/bloom-additives/liquid-lead-1ltr/

Liquid Lead 1Ltr
$30.00 inc GST

Code: 1264



Heavy Enhancer Contains a special formula precisely designed for the heaviest harvest. A unique blend of organic enzyme activators vitamins essential amino acids and carbohydrates that will unleash the full flowering potential of your favourite plants or herbs. Optimises harvest weight Promotes vigorous growth Enhances flavour and taste Increase health of flowering plants APPLICATION To get the most from your flowering plants follow these simple instructions. Start using Liquid Lead 3 weeks prior to harvest. Add 2.5ml per Ltr of water along with a quality flowering nutrient.

 

[Splifferous]

@Buck: thanks for that. however, I am familiar with most of Canna's literature, to include most all of what has ever been said about Boost (at $110-$125 per liter, believe that i did as much research as I could...) in regards to the Liquid Lead ( or Finisher as it is called in North America), it seems to not have been around as long as Boost, and according to Google, there is only that video that I previously posted and then foreign sites that sell it.

what I would like would be something substantial to bolster your claims that it is better than Boost. In my next bloom run I am planning on running 2 matched plants from clone identically except for Boost, to see for myself if it's worth that continued investment, but what is there to indicate that Liquid Lead is better?

to be sure, if it is better, then I truly appreciate the heads up; but for me, I can't see myself ordering a dubious product that I've never heard of and can't get reliable third party information regarding off the internet on the recommendation of a stranger.

 

[Splifferous]

on the subject of inda gro. If you look at the spd. Its lacking red in the 660nm range and lacking IR which both are needed for flower. between 660nm and 700 nm is where chlorophyl absorbs the most light. So you would still need to use supplment lighting , led or t5. If they tweak the gas a little, they could produce the 660 red.

are you referring to this (http://www.inda-gro.com/gallery/album/9#5)? if so, that's for the Pro Series, not the Pro-PAR series. it's my understanding that the non-PAR lineup is lacking on some of the red spectrum that the PAR has; that's the key difference. as stated on the Inda-Gro site, in regards to the PAR lamps: "95% Par Usable UV and IR Spectrums with Added Red Phosphor Blend". also, as illustrated in this picture, plants have an almost inverse perception of light, as compared to how our own eyes register it. That is to say that our eyes are roughly 10% sensitive to that particular wavelength as compared to 550nm (green). BTW, it's the phosphors that are responsible for the actual illumination of fluorescent lamps, not the gas.

please look back in this thread a page or two; i have posted a very recent video to youtube where you can see for yourself my Pro-420-PAR is putting bigger, fatter, denser buds on it's plants than the HPS is doing on it's plants. you can also note in that video that the HPS light looks orange, and the Inda-Gro looks to be putting out a white-ish light. recall ^ that your eyes are not the best instruments to rely on here... look at the buds. let the plant tell you the better light source!

 

[PSUAGRO.]

You guys are doing RIU a big service by running these inductions(and posting great info too!)..........It's hard to find anyone running these panels, i'm really thinking about trying one of the smaller units out instead of leds(for the summer)..........decisions

be safe and happy growing.....

 

[PetFlora]

on the subject of inda gro. If you look at the spd. Its lacking red in the 660nm range and lacking IR which both are needed for flower. between 660nm and 700 nm is where chlorophyl absorbs the most light. So you would still need to use supplment lighting , led or t5. If they tweak the gas a little, they could produce the 660 red.

Good points. The fact is no one single bulb (or 99% of leds) will be optimal for both veg and flower, due to the increased requirements for red-far red-IR during flower (oh, and the opposite for 420-500 + price) is why I am sticking with HO T5s for now.

Rives made a neat Inda-Gro hybrid adding 600-660 led strips to both sides, using a separate o/o switch to control when to introduce them. That doesn't solve the need for decreased blue during flower, but it offers much better bud development (quality & probably quantity) than a standard Ind Gro.

Ideally, I need to replace my 8 bulb with 2 @ 4, as it would be easier to drop some extra IR (Corals Waves have some) in between the 2 @ 4 during first hour of lights off while in flower. But then again, my grow is only 2 X 4 and haven't found IR bulbs < 150w, which is ~ 100w too much for my grow.

FYI: UVL is sending me a 660, which I will utilize in ~ 3 weeks.

 

[chazbolin]

on the subject of inda gro. If you look at the spd. Its lacking red in the 660nm range and lacking IR which both are needed for flower. between 660nm and 700 nm is where chlorophyl absorbs the most light. So you would still need to use supplment lighting , led or t5. If they tweak the gas a little, they could produce the 660 red.

You make a good point in that there is no such thing as the perfect man made lamp. They all will lack the intensity @ the full spectrums of the sun. However by managing lighting integrals properly and measuring yields against costs p/m squared I would be hard pressed to justify LED or T5 to 'supplement' the Inda-Gro PAR blends.

No matter what lamp technology or whose spectral distribution graph you're looking at its still data based on relative intensity of the wavelength at a specific point in the spectrum. Intensity is generated by energy. If you look at any HPS SDG you see that the relative intensity of HPS falls off steadily to nothing on wavelengths north of 630nm. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it's not a complete Red/FR solution and it does take alot of energy above PAR to achieve the red they do emit.

The predominant gas used in fluorescent lamps is an Ultra Pure Argon. Mixing Neon, Krypton, zenon to argon is usually driven by the requirements of the lamps operating voltage. The gas doesn't influence spectrum to the degree that the phosphor blends do. For example argon emits a far red peak in the 710nm region but overall influence of the gas, any gas, on the lamps PAR spectral distribution when measured in relative intensity is less significant then the phosphors. The Inda-Gro PAR blends emit red spectra up to 655nm which as you can see by their SDG is still higher then the argon peak. Ideally I look for a wide spectrum lamp that does emit a FR to not overcompensate the Red. The desirable ratio is 2:1 Red over Far Red as measured in relative intensity.

Besides gas and phosphor the small Mercury (5mg) amalgam present within a low pressure (when an EFDL lamp cracks there is no explosive outburst of glass. They just quit working and the crack tends to keep spreading) glass tube, typical of EFDL induction lamps, also provides SDG emissions @ 405,445,545,580 and 780nm.

Under an HPS lamp where the sodium mixes with the Mercury (Hg) (12-50mg) in a high pressure environment lamps explode when broken as the pressure is released, that same Hg reacts in entirely different spectra and are less predominant then in (8%) fluorescent. Check those mfg's of HPS and look at their Spectral Distribution Graphs. You'll find under high pressure Hg emissions contribute less then 1% of total spectra and hardly show up at all on the SDG. The point I'm making here is that when these lamps explode you have Hg spread all over the grow area and collecting the Hg from an exploded lamp will be will always be a question as to whether or not it was all collected or any remains in the room.

I'm not picking on HPS but do keep in mind that the lamp changes on an HPS that goes to it's rated life of 20,000 hrs compared to an EFDL @ 100,000 hrs is 5:1 in Hg as an environmental issue. Most growers change the lamps at around 10% of the rated life so the ratio is actually 20:1. Lets hope those are all being properly recycled and not getting into the ground water.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

I always thought that hps bulb are actually low pressure and are suitable for open fixtures? Their definitely open fixture rated...

 

[chazbolin]

nope your thinking LPS

there is Low Pressure Sodium and they are the street lights in the long housings that are monochromatic (horrible for a grow light) or really orange looking

High Pressure Sodium is the opposite. Some of the HPS lamps from China are poorly made and when the ambient conditions rise or they are run on 50K Hz digital ballasts the bulbs can explode.