aluminum foil - may your light carry on

7xstall

Well-Known Member
everyone on this site seems to think aluminum foil is the spawn of Satan. :)
anytime someone mentions this wonderful material a stream of anti-aluminum propaganda suffocates the original question!

foil is fine, i've used it for years. you can mold it and it keeps its shape. it's sanitary and easy to clean. you can even recycle it when done!

and what's with the talk about the crinkles being so bad? a visible light photon will travel in a straight line for no more than 1 cm, crinkles are OK, ok?!

aluminum is bad because it conducts electricity? well, aluminum is what makes mylar film look so much like aluminum....:-? in fact, power companies did an info campaign a few years back about the dangers of mylar balloons getting caught in power lines.

now here's the kicker. it even turns out that the shiny side of...............aluminum is............(get ready)......MORE reflective than mylar impregnated with aluminum...go figure!


Reflectivity
Reflects approximately 98% of radiant heat and light.


Aluminium - Attributes and Properties of Aluminium Foil

shine on you crazy diamond! :joint:
 

Nizzan

Well-Known Member
I never had the guts to say anthing about it because of all the negative vibes it instantly creates, but my grow room uses aluminum foil... oh and by the way... aluminum foil is less expensive than alot of the other ways.:hump:

I actually try to get the crinkles into my aluminum foil. This only makes sense to me that it would break up the pattern and direction of the light to help and prevent "hot spots".

Now correct me if I am wrong but a "hot spot" could be defined as a strong point of light in comparison to the light around it. (my own understanding and definition). This can be seen by taking something like mylar film and reflecting the sun off of it and taking a picture. You should see the VERY BRIGHT reflection of the sun as a gigantic hot spot on the picture. Now do the same experiment with smooth aluminum foil, crinkled aluminum foil and any other surface that you want to try. The crinkled aluminum foil has many more, but much less intense "hot spots" due to it's crinkled nature.

Anyone else have anything else to add either way on this issue?

Peace
 

muu232

Well-Known Member
I've always used aluminum foil and it has caused no problems at all. It has to help because the color of the wall before hand didn't reflect the light well at all. Plus I'm using CFLs and so it's not a big deal. I've got no experience with HIDs so I dunno if it causes problems with them.
 

hearmenow

Well-Known Member
Good info, guys. Thanks. Here I was, a newb, doing all kinds of online searches for mylar when I could have used plain old foil...grrrr...Anyway, I don't feel TOO bad, as I finally purchased some mylar gift basket shrink wrap sheets from the local party supply store and paid $3.99 for 15 sheets of 30"X30". Not too bad....
 

ViRedd

New Member
Hee, hee ... its great to see all the closet growers come out of the closet on the aluminium issue.

Vi
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Contributed by: DaChronicKing
Submitted: 05-07-2003

Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to ‘contain’ as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.

To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).

The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.

Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.

Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:

Mylar:

A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.

Flat white paint:

Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.

Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.

White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):

"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.

The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.

If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.

Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):

This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.

It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.


Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Why would you want to use sometime that has a reflective value of less then 55% when you could do so much better? Sort of like using a tampon to fix the hole in the boat instead of fixing it correctly. It will work for a tiny while but in the long run you are .......
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Why would you want to use sometime that has a reflective value of less then 55% when you could do so much better? Sort of like using a tampon to fix the hole in the boat instead of fixing it correctly. It will work for a tiny while but in the long run you are .......
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
From mogie:

"The white side (of the plastic sheeting) is 75-90% reflective"

"Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective"


---
i have never, ever in my life seen any type of white plastic sheeting that is more reflective than polished aluminum.



"Why would you want to use sometime that has a reflective value of less then 55% when you could do so much better? Sort of like using a tampon to fix the hole in the boat instead of fixing it correctly. It will work for a tiny while but in the long run you are ......."

lol - the article i posted states that aluminum is 98% reflective, mylar impregnated with aluminum is usually 90%, according to the retailers i checked out. some claim 95% but i have to wonder how this could be...

i use reflectors only on starters w/cfl so i need very small areas to reflect, foil is perfect for me. the only advantage of mylar would be that it's easy to handle and more durable if you are using it on larger areas.

use mylar impregnated with aluminum all day if it makes you happy! just wanted to let the folks know that aluminum by itself is just as good. :)
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Mylar is reinforced with foil laminate. That is different that being basically the same as foil. Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective it is only common sense that when something becomes creased its reflectivity is lowered. It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard. There are enough fire hazards in the typical grow area. Why add more and get less reflective quality?
 

jasonxx420

Active Member
No doubt Mylar is the best and aluminum is only like 55 or 60 % around there. All i have used in any big project is Mylar and i have always Had grate success with it.
 

420penguin

Well-Known Member
wish I could give you more recognition mogie.

I just don't get scrimping and scraping on reflective material that doesn't wear out and costs next to nothing when you're buying lights for hundreds, nutes for hundreds, and risking prosecution for thousands.

but, do what you have to. at least you're growing.
 

Hydroflo

Well-Known Member
the way i look at it is, if your paying all that money for lights, soil, nutes etc.. why not pay the couple extra bucks for mylar which is more reflective and safer?
 

Seedlessone

Well-Known Member
this is just crazy!! you are stating info that is sooooo wrong... foil sucks ass as a reflective surface. You will get more reflection from flat YELLOW paint. Mogie is stating the facts so there is no reason to state them agian. Man please stop posting info that is 100% wrong.
 

Seedlessone

Well-Known Member
LOL is just wanna know where you got all the bs facts from...the more i read this post, the more funny this becomes....
 

entropic

Well-Known Member
He got the info from the link in his post
Aluminium - Attributes and Properties of Aluminium Foil

here's another article that backs it up
Physical Properties of Aluminum Foil - All Foils, Inc.

The main problems with foil are that it creates hot spots since most people don't get it laid without crinkles (you can use spray adhesive to glue it to cardboard to fix this)

Try and find a resource other than a growing guide that says foil has 55% reflectivity. Or test it yourself, lay out a piece of aluminum foil completely flat and look at it, do you only 55% of yourself, or do you see yourself fairly clearly?
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Okay checked out both sites. If they are so credible why don't the stats match? Or did you forget to mention that these aren't the type of foils that you find in your average grocery store. That is what most people are using and referring to. And there is still a cheaper alternative with better light reflecting capabilities.
Contributed by: Stickydank

I've discovered the cheapest Mylar around-- only 2 bucks$! You save 18 bucks$ a roll! It?s a Christmas present wrapping Mylar called Polywrap



- Waterproof
- 50 square ft. a roll
- 1 mil (@ .001 inch) thick X 3 1/2 ft. wide X 20ft long.

Note: Only buy the very Bright and shiny Mylar-type wrapping!
 
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