Whats your opinion on immigration??

Let me put in a manner you'll understand.

If I wouldn't let someone take cuts in line at the movies or at the DMV, why would I let them take cuts in line for something more important like immigration?

Get in the back of the line!
 
Winter Woman said:
Let me put in a manner you'll understand.

If I wouldn't let someone take cuts in line at the movies or at the DMV, why would I let them take cuts in line for something more important like immigration?

Get in the back of the line!
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I'm in line lol. I'm a legal citizen and so is my dad.

I don't understand why this is so different than other shit that people do illegally. Yeah there's bad illegal immigrants just like there's bad cannabis users. I'm cheating the law but my morals tell me it's ok because I'm not hruting anybody. I feel the same for these immigrants. They don't hurt anybody (not any of the ones I've met and I've met ALOT) so my morals tell me that they're fine in my book. Now if they were to do shit like rape children and steal from stores, I'd turn them in like I would with any other person. I guess our morals are just different. There's not much you're gonna do to kick the immigrants I know out and I'm glad they're here. They're good people and I'm gonna call them americans.
 
Come to California. I guarantee every single person on this thread view would change on the subject.
You might hate it more
You might respect the issue more
But at least it won't be this one side other side bullshit on immigration
 
Hepheastus420 said:
Again, shoul I turn myself in because I smoke cannabis?
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Heph, you cannot win this one.
Smoking cannabis is illegal, but it isn't wrong.
Driving around in a car with a stereo that deliberately and cheerfully breaks noise ordinances is illegal (if almost unenforced) and it is wrong. It impinges on people around the rat with the thumpin' system.
Hiring illegals expressly in order to exploit their cheapness, which is based on subverting things such as the tax code, is also illegal and wrong ... and it's a bigger wrong, since it a) exploits the illegals, even though they consent, and b) cheats (harms) honest businessmen, as WW has patiently explained.

You're focusing exclusively on legality. Please also consider right/wrong in this instance. whatever else you like or dislike about your dad, he is being a thief and a cheat in this instance. The "hardworking decent guy" overlay does not in any way mitigate the deliberate misuse of the system. My opinion. cn
 
cannabineer said:
Heph, you cannot win this one.
Smoking cannabis is illegal, but it isn't wrong.
Driving around in a car with a stereo that deliberately and cheerfully breaks noise ordinances is illegal (if almost unenforced) and it is wrong. It impinges on people around the rat with the thumpin' system.
Hiring illegals expressly in order to exploit their cheapness, which is based on subverting things such as the tax code, is also illegal and wrong ... and it's a bigger wrong, since it a) exploits the illegals, even though they consent, and b) cheats (harms) honest businessmen, as WW has patiently explained.

You're focusing exclusively on legality. Please also consider right/wrong in this instance. whatever else you like or dislike about your dad, he is being a thief and a cheat in this instance. The "hardworking decent guy" overlay does not in any way mitigate the deliberate misuse of the system. My opinion. cn
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Yeah fine, my dad is a theif and a cheat. So you're saying he should just not give these people jobs to support their families?
 
Bah, maybe I'm just over-reacting on the subject but RIU sucks ass now. It's just filled with a bunch of nonsense. :finger:.. I'm done with this shit.
 
Hepheastus420 said:
Yeah fine, my dad is a theif and a cheat. So you're saying he should just not give these people jobs to support their families?
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I'm suggesting he should do it right, or not at all. The attitude "I can make this work if I buy into a widespread social cheating mechanism" should really mean "I cannot make this work honestly". I realize that when livelihood is at stake, especially in this sustained bad economy, the moral calculus becomes consequential, but no more right. Make of it what you will. But that is my firm opinion. How do you feel about a society whose prime directive becomes "don't get caught"? Doesn't that effectively define corruption? My opinion. cn
 
cannabineer said:
I'm suggesting he should do it right, or not at all. The attitude "I can make this work if I buy into a widespread social cheating mechanism" should really mean "I cannot make this work honestly". I realize that when livelihood is at stake, especially in this sustained bad economy, the moral calculus becomes consequential, but no more right. Make of it what you will. But that is my firm opinion. How do you feel about a society whose prime directive becomes "don't get caught"? Doesn't that effectively define corruption? My opinion. cn
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CN, I think you just described Mexico
 
Winter Woman said:
CN, I think you just described Mexico
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What a brilliant capsularization of my point, WW. Millions of people trying to get by, using gray-zone advantage to survive ... you can't really blame them, but it shows that once corruption has claimed some societal territory, getting rid of it is tough. In this country we still have individual moral choices in these matters. if this keeps up, we're headed to a nearly irreparable failure of the social contract that is one of the things really really harming Mexico. Their organized crime problem is a direct consequence, a distillation of those who Didn't Get Caught. cn
 
I think alot of people that posted in this thread have no clue to the problems that illegalls are causing in this country! They are having children in this country that we pay for thru our taxes they get free medical and food stamps they arent paying income taxes and they are taking work away from american's! They can work for less pay than we can because we are supporting them while they send their pay back to mexico every week! Illegall imagration is hurting our economy and anyone that does'nt see this is blind! They have been taking my work for the last 7 years.. I had my own company and worked my ass off to get it, Im in construction! Im giving up on my company and going to get back in the union where they can't take my work from me! I can't beleive how many people still dont understand what these people are doing to this country! I guess if it does'nt affect your income ,your blind to the problem! Greedy company owners employ them! I think they should all be sent back to mexico and have to come into this country the way my grandparents did, legally! These people are criminals! I think its funny everytime I hear someone say how hard they work, did you know that the exchange rate when they send the money to mexico is 20 to 30 to 1? Wake up people! A friend of mine's grandson was riding in the car with his mom and an illegall immigrant ran into them, he had no insurance or drivers liscence! The little boy is now a parapalegic now and brain dead! Guess what happened to the illegall, He got a free ride back to mexico, no jail! What happens to an american that they catch doing something wrong down there? The corupt government extorts money from that persons family,or they kill you! My best friend is an american born mexican that lives in arizona,we have been friends for over 20 years! I talk to him almost everyday! If you think illegalls are'nt causing problems in the us it because your stupid! Winter woman seems to understand whats going on.. If they had to pay for their children to be born and actually buy their own food and pay for their own medical bills instead of us paying their way, I bet they would'nt want to stay here! Missouri changed the wording of their wealfare system so it states you cant demand assistance in any other language other than english and most of them left the state! Im sick of these damn criminals using up our system.. They have figured out how to use the system to their benifit and at our expense! Wake up people!!!!
 
Illegals broke the fucking law as soon as they crossed over, this makes them all criminals. There should not be any second chance for any illegal immigrants. There needs to be an example set for illegal immigration. As far as there kids go, there here illegally and my opinion is so are there kids. Ship the whole family back. Like somone elce said, if they have the time to work or have kids, they have the time to get here the right way. Black, Japanese, Mexican or Russian, if its illegal its a fucking crime. Until the united states government starts taking care of all its LEGAL citizens, im totaly against any immigrants legal or not.
 
Winter Woman said:
Get inline with everyone else. What about that don't you understand?
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while their families starve?

have any idea how long it takes to immigrate?

would you steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? how about break an unjust law to feed you starving family?
 
cannabineer said:
Hiring illegals expressly in order to exploit their cheapness, which is based on subverting things such as the tax code, is also illegal and wrong ... and it's a bigger wrong, since it a) exploits the illegals, even though they consent, and b) cheats (harms) honest businessmen, as WW has patiently explained.

You're focusing exclusively on legality. Please also consider right/wrong in this instance. whatever else you like or dislike about your dad, he is being a thief and a cheat in this instance. The "hardworking decent guy" overlay does not in any way mitigate the deliberate misuse of the system. My opinion. cn
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who is forcing these guys to work for hep's dad? where is the gun to their head?
 
smokebomb1 said:
Illegals broke the fucking law as soon as they crossed over, this makes them all criminals. There should not be any second chance for any illegal immigrants. There needs to be an example set for illegal immigration. As far as there kids go, there here illegally and my opinion is so are there kids. Ship the whole family back. Like somone elce said, if they have the time to work or have kids, they have the time to get here the right way. Black, Japanese, Mexican or Russian, if its illegal its a fucking crime. Until the united states government starts taking care of all its LEGAL citizens, im totaly against any immigrants legal or not.
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so, a family brings a kid into this country, the kid has no choice in it, but kick him/her out anyway?

how exactly do we go about rounding up 12 million people?

i mean, it would be an excellent way to suck billions of dollars out of our economies, but what's the point other than being a dick?
 
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