I've read plenty of similarly negative posts about other breeders that's no diferent than what you say here. There are numerous small camps of disgruntled growers who didn't get what they were supposed to in their order or supposedly stable plants, weren't. Some rant on about all or mostly males or hermies showing up. Blah- blah- blah. I heard it all before many times. Y'all just got an axe to grind and a chip on your shoulder. If ya' don't like Subs gear, then don't order his beans. There's more than plenty of us who do.
TGA Strains Stable?
- Thread starter Trulife69
- Start date
I've read plenty of similarly negative posts about other breeders that's no diferent than what you say here. There are numerous small camps of disgruntled growers who didn't get what they were supposed to in their order or supposedly stable plants, weren't. Some rant on about all or mostly males or hermies showing up. Blah- blah- blah. I heard it all before many times. Y'all just got an axe to grind and a chip on your shoulder. If ya' don't like Subs gear, then don't order his beans. There's more than plenty of us who do.
It may have flown... right up till you missed my first sentence that just rendered your brain moot.
CharlieBud
Active Member
I could go on and on and on and on with these very same sources that prove just who's full of it here:
- "Only Organics
- Seasoned Members
- 4,493 posts
- LocationGouranga
Reputation: 3,858
Excellent
Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:07 PM
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Here are a few VORTEX grown in roots and fed Botanicare nutes. Apparently while these were in veg and I was living in a cave somewhere, it won the medical cannabis cup? Now, after harvest, I know why. Some of the best extreme nausea meds I've had in addition to several other pluses.
It all started with a good ol' 10 pack of TGA Vortex I had laying around for about a 6 months, heck- maybe more?.. You see I had picked it up initially thinking it would be mediocre; and all the 'hype' (Which I now think of as gospel) that Sub had been spreading around the forums documenting his elite breeding experiments was all a ploy to make seed money (much like some other breeders strain videos). After growing other breeders gear (4 new strains for 20 grows) and only finding a couple keepers, while reading and falling in love with "the book of DANK," I gotta wild idea to sprout my TGA gear I'd purchased some time earlier.
Thinking nothing of it I didnt even label the strains going in, just threw the beans with 5 other breeders gear into some towels and onto the heating pad they went (yes sub I cooked your gear and it sprouted, but I use a thermostat controller).... From percentages only I had 8 of the 10 Vortex beans pop along with a troop of LA confidential, lemon skunk, and less than impressive others.... Vegetative growth was uneventful for all as they gathered the strength and underground infrastructure for explosive flower development. Vegging everything to a height of 24" and growing in a loose SOG I unflinchingly threw all of my the potential girls and studs into 12/12 and waited like a kid for x-mas. I was in need of meds for myself and my patient and couldn't wait any longer for them to indicate sex and get this flower power show on the road.
The 8 vortex went on to produce 2 males and 6 females and when the males indicated their plans they were seperated and deprived from any real tlc (very low light, no transplant, no nutes, no ph'ing the water).. After much thought I made the chop and only kept one male long enough for some selective seed making on one branch per plant. The females had already began developing quickly as they had the power of HPS and nutrients on their side to rush them ahead of the males development."
'Vortex' would not be one of the newer TGA strains now would it? "High Times Top 10 2007", I guess not. Let's see those 'nannerberry' and 'tranny bubba' endorsements? Again, not saying you can't find great keeper phenos, just that the newer lines are not (as?) stable. Again, this is what the market is demanding. More strains, released faster, using clone only strains as parent stock.
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Lol theres always one in a crowd! Man youhave no clue the level of growing exp i have! Or how many tga strains i have grown.
dec 2011 join date hmm right when all the sub issues started so im guessing this is a ghost account! Most likey someone with
something to gain.
dec 2011 join date hmm right when all the sub issues started so im guessing this is a ghost account! Most likey someone with
something to gain.
ink the world
Well-Known Member
So I've been keeping up on the thread since I posted earlier. Made me go double check my garden for hermies.
Happy to report no nanas on any of the 4 TGA keepers or their offspring in my grow.
As usual shit gets blown out of proportion around here. I remember tooling on someone here last year for proclaiming Plushberry the greatest strain to drop in history, this was the day it was released. Overhype is the problem. People expect either too much or have unreal expectations. IE expecting polyhybrids being stable phenotype wise is unreasonable.
The bottom line is that TGA produces polyhybrids. If you're expecting pheno stability you're either an uneducated grower or have unrealistic expectations. The masses hop on the bandwagon and reality turns into hype.
My TGA gear is good, not the best I've ever had but hardly junk as some are implying. Seems to me that I've seen a couple posters here with an axe to grind w/ Sub...I've seen at least one poster harass and stalk the guy on here.
To unknowing readers, I ask that you research some of the real hateful comments and see their past posts. Same thing with the TGA devotees. You'll find the real truth lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 camps
Happy to report no nanas on any of the 4 TGA keepers or their offspring in my grow.
As usual shit gets blown out of proportion around here. I remember tooling on someone here last year for proclaiming Plushberry the greatest strain to drop in history, this was the day it was released. Overhype is the problem. People expect either too much or have unreal expectations. IE expecting polyhybrids being stable phenotype wise is unreasonable.
The bottom line is that TGA produces polyhybrids. If you're expecting pheno stability you're either an uneducated grower or have unrealistic expectations. The masses hop on the bandwagon and reality turns into hype.
My TGA gear is good, not the best I've ever had but hardly junk as some are implying. Seems to me that I've seen a couple posters here with an axe to grind w/ Sub...I've seen at least one poster harass and stalk the guy on here.
To unknowing readers, I ask that you research some of the real hateful comments and see their past posts. Same thing with the TGA devotees. You'll find the real truth lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 camps
Clankie
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I am pretty sure that none of Subcool's strains are actually F1 hybrids. An F1 hybrid is very strictly the combination of two true breeding lines, which results in a plant with all dominant genetics, and the justly revered 'hybrid vigor'. When you cross non-stabilized lines, which is generally any hybrid less than F7, the result is actually an F2 hybrid, even if it is first generation in this specific circumstance, and this generation (and all those after) will not have hybrid vigor. Real seed breeders, if they want to breed from hybrid stock, stabilize the hybrid first to arrive at a true-breeding parent line, and it is from the cross of these stabilized parent lines that will result in an actual F1 hybrid, which generally show relatively little variation (usually 2-4 phenotypes) and contain no paired recessive genes. F2 generations will show the most radically different phenotypes, as they will have the most genetic variation, and will be the first generation to contain paired recessive genes.
SketchyGrower
Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;wSvhkS-GuSs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSvhkS-GuSs[/video]
ink the world
Well-Known Member
Kinda sounds like were singing the same song.
Hybrid X Hybrid= unstabilized and many phenos
My gripe is that the idea of these seeds being polyhybrids is clear. I think people expecting uniformity from the is unreasonable. The herm problem some are having is something I personally haven't encountered with the 3 TGA strains I've run
GUN1
Well-Known Member
If subcool knows what hes doing the variation may very well be because he has parent plants homozygous for many different genes.
In my books that is a good thing.
wyteberrywidow
Global
I'm surprised sub did not see this thread yet and does not want to say anything.. I asked him about his plushberry hermies and he need even answered just overlooked the question.
grandaddydank
Member
grandaddydank
Member
yea that is awful, we just lost 3 mother plants, equip, cuts, so much more, but managed to save our bread and butter. I would just cry if I wasted a veg cycle on 30 shit beans.
On another note, I talked to a friend of mine who sells seeds worldwide, and after clearing up some stocking questions, he mentioned that most every breeder nowadays is making the transition to feminized seed, and we discussed why for a little while. He mentioned that most breeders are protecting their genetics just in general, as the demand has multiplied for regular seed. guess all us stupid yanks figured out what the deal was finally. It is truly an interesting time we live in.
The Smoking Man
-
Lets all try and get along. Life is short.
On another note, I talked to a friend of mine who sells seeds worldwide, and after clearing up some stocking questions, he mentioned that most every breeder nowadays is making the transition to feminized seed, and we discussed why for a little while. He mentioned that most breeders are protecting their genetics just in general, as the demand has multiplied for regular seed. guess all us stupid yanks figured out what the deal was finally. It is truly an interesting time we live in.
The Smoking Man
-
Lets all try and get along. Life is short.
The Mantis
Well-Known Member
Ok, so most of the people hate tga on this thread bc of the herms. Got it.
So, who is the best breeders you've had experience with AND made a record of it online? Words without pics are useless on here imo
So, who is the best breeders you've had experience with AND made a record of it online? Words without pics are useless on here imo
Guerilla Gardener
Active Member
I went through Jordan of the islands about 8 years ago... got God Bud.. out of 13 seeds, I have the blue pheno, short pheno, green fuelly pheno.. I back crossed them to a male from the pack and am still growing out these seeds. Best luck Ive had with seeds ever, and the strain is a keeper... everyone loves it.
raiderman
Well-Known Member
i may ytry a pac of tiers ,who knows,but yea i had a purple keeper and a green and purple pheno,that was it ,but the yie;d was high jus that doin extra week got a few nanners went ahead and pulled them.they were reg beans to.there is no stress in this growroom.so dunno.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
I'd certainly hope not, and just to be clear, when I gave my description earlier of "pollen chucker", I didn't mean to imply that all Subcool does is take two lines cross them, and sell the seeds.
I'm pretty sure he is still doing some selection, even if its clear he's not doing it over many generations to stabilize the offspring.
Well, again, just to be clear here, in classical genetics nomenclature the term F1 is just a way of describing the offspring of any two parents (hybrid or inbred). It refers to any member of the first offspring generation of any cross.
The F1 is typically a hybrid (if the parents are different) but it might not be (if the parents are similar inbred lines).
You're right that typically the term "F1 hybrid" is used specifically to refer to the offspring of two true breeding lines, but I don't think it absolutely has to. It depends on the context.
Anyway, this minor semantic quibble aside, I agree entirely. The "best" F1s come from crossing two inbred lines, and optimally not only will the offspring all look alike or nearly so, but they'll hopefully express the best (or at least some of the best) traits from each of the two parents.
Again, in classical genetics nomenclature, F2 refers to any second generation cross (regardless of the genetic lineage of the parents). Its just a frame of reference from your original crosses.
What degree of hybrid vigor (or "heterosis", to use the fancy genetics term) the direct offspring of hybrid plants will have will be dependent on the exact genetics involved.
For example, if each of the original parents are themselves perfect F1 hybrids each formed by crossing two unique inbred lines, and you were to cross these two parents, each of their F1 offspring could look totally different. . .yet each would still be expected to have hybrid vigor.
In other words if you were to cross (AxB) x (CxD), where A-D were each unique true-breeding strains, every relevant gene locus in the offspring would be heterozygous and you'd expect hybrid vigor in these plants.
Forgetting for the moment what filial generation (F1, F2, etc) you "should" call these mutts, this is where the phenomenon of polyhybrids comes into play. Generate enough random variation with enough genetic potential, and sure. .. some of these plants "should" be absolutely outstanding.
Agreeing with this, the problem here is that some of the more interesting phenotypes REQUIRE heterozygosity (kind of like green eyes), and therefore CANNOT be stabilized into true breeding lines. This is part of the reason elite "clone only" strains exist. . .you simply can't backcross them to stabilize them.
Yes, in theory it should be possible to create unique true-breeding parents that when crossed will reproduce ANY specific genotype (and therefore phenotype) that you like, but in practice, actually doing this can range from difficult to practically impossible.
Since some of the genetic factors that create interesting plants may not be externally visible, it simply may not be possible to select for them using conventional breeding techniques. Also, not every phenotype is controlled by simple Mendellian genetics where one gene locus controls one phenotype. Some traits may be controlled by multiple genes that can interact in non-obvious ways, again confounding efforts to do normal selection.
With enough genetic knowledge, and enough selections, and enough generations, these sorts of problems can be overcome to some extent, but again, this sort of thing is what separate the the "real" breeders from the wanna-bes.
Doobius1
Well-Known Member
U think Sub is gonna comment on this thread with all the hate? He has seen other breeders, like Swerve get attacked on here, try to defend themselves, then get gangbanged by the haters. Sad really because we can learn more from the breeders than anyone on here yet the hate keeps them away. I'm sure Sub is reading along. Guys like 15yearsofbreeding troll around after Sub obvo have a game goin. Why else beat a dead horse over and over for 6 months dude? I have 2 weeks to go on a 11 strain run, 6 tga and only nanners so far were on a Female Seeds Bubblegummer. The dankest looking and smelling shit in my room is the TGA gear. Note I did not say the biggest. Its 1/3 size of my Black Widow, Chronic, LA Con and Bubba which are mostly indica though. One thing is a few strains look/smell alike and Im afraid I got too many Space Queen leaning phenos. Time will tell if I become a fanboi or not. I just tell it like I see it and at least put my money where my mouth is. I had a 5 pack of Cheesequake that was 5 males. Not a huge deal just won't ever get to try it is all. I'll spend $50 on a bottle of wine for a nice dinner. I didnt cry all over the 'net about it. I dont agree with the whole 'femmed seeds are for pussies' that he claims is just an inside joke. More like 'femm seeds are for people with plant counts'. Didn't see the need to insult a whole group who need fem. One thing Sub has taught a lot of newb's how to grow better bud (all the while pimpin his shit.... Ya ya I get it). Anyone who runs a business pimps their shit after all