LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Fonz, not sure if you have one but can you test out the Coralife Colormax if you have one please. Thinking of replacing my fiji or my Actric with that to get a bit of the blue out of my reg.

Snoogins
I don't have one, but the graph is on the internet. It's basically the same as the Florasun though. Actually I bet a person could get by using all Florasuns for veg if they wanted to. I really like my 50/50 UVL660/TrueLumen 460nm setup with 2 x UVL660 and 2 x TrueLumen 460. It's a bit on the blue side, but it really makes rooting a breeze and keeps everything short and stocky. Keeps everything shorter overall when I move the plants to the flowering cave.

Why are you changing anything in your veg fixture? Your plants look nice with the way you have it set up now. Are the internodes closer than you would like? In other words, are they bushier than you want them to be or something?
 

jsamuel24

Active Member
I don't have one, but the graph is on the internet. It's basically the same as the Florasun though. Actually I bet a person could get by using all Florasuns for veg if they wanted to. I really like my 50/50 UVL660/TrueLumen 460nm setup with 2 x UVL660 and 2 x TrueLumen 460. It's a bit on the blue side, but it really makes rooting a breeze and keeps everything short and stocky. Keeps everything shorter overall when I move the plants to the flowering cave.

Why are you changing anything in your veg fixture? Your plants look nice with the way you have it set up now. Are the internodes closer than you would like? In other words, are they bushier than you want them to be or something?
Last 2 veges ended up a bit bushier then i wanted so just wanted to see what happens if i change the veg spectrum slightly. It was very heavy blue and I think it might work better if i switch out the fiji like we were talking about in my journal. Gonna try my coral point red wave instead of the fiji for the next two weeks or so and see how it changes the fog and gdp that are in there now. Just trying to get slightly more then a quarter inch between nodes.

Snooch
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Last 2 veges ended up a bit bushier then i wanted so just wanted to see what happens if i change the veg spectrum slightly. It was very heavy blue and I think it might work better if i switch out the fiji like we were talking about in my journal. Gonna try my coral point red wave instead of the fiji for the next two weeks or so and see how it changes the fog and gdp that are in there now. Just trying to get slightly more then a quarter inch between nodes.

Snooch
Makes sense. I bet if you were to add a 3000k lamp or a 6000k or 6500k or something with green/yellow that would give a little more internodal distance.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Gotta test the bloom bulbs sold by HtGSupply. WHatever that spectrum is it works great
Don't they have the SPD listed already? I guess I could see if the local hydro shop sells them. I'm already quite positive that if it's a 3000k lamp, it's going to be identical to the ge 3000k and every other 3000k "yellow-green" flowering lamp. I've seen such close similarities between the German HQ T5's that I have no doubts. Especially when it comes to these cheaper "horti-lamp" type lamps.

These "specialty hydro brands" are really good at tricking the customer into thinking they have a special product when it is just a relabeled lamp from a different company. It's much cheaper for them to invest in a labeling company and buy rights to a product than to invest in an entire lamp manufacturing plant. It's also very cheap to have crap made offshore in China. There are also fewer rules over there so they can really "stretch the truth" with their products, just like the German company did with the Fiji lamps.

I have a hard time accepting the fact that people do this, it's so fucked up but it's the real deal.

These lamps are the same as a "warm-white." Phillips and other companies make them and they are labeled as "827" in their product number. You can buy them fairly cheap by the case from household type light bulb distribution centers. They work because they are very yellow, which is on the red side of the spectrum so they balance your entire T5 spectrum to the red side better than nothing. Your good results are probably more due to the fact that you are using good nutes or are running your Ph correctly, etc. rather than being a spectrum issue.

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that I'm not. Either way, plants can adapt fairly easily to a light source(take HPS for example) even if it has a shitty spectrum. It's the plant's "duty" to make flowers, so that's what it does best. I still think the best spectrum is one that has a high 95%-100% absorption spectra rate, in other words, a spectrum that is intense in the red/blue wavelengths, and less of the green/yellow/orange/IR etc.

I still have yet to see a red/blue only led or T5 spectrum out-perform a MH or HPS in bud density. Quality yes, but weight no. I want to see this happen still! I'm convinced it will someday. The best "low-power" grow setup that I've seen so far utilized neutral white leds. They only used 80w of neutral white leds and got the quality we've seen in T5 buds plus the weight and density we see in HID. He used 80w in a 18" x 18" area micro-grow with 4 plants in a mini sea-o-green setup.

I tried adding 500w of halogen to a really nice MH of mine that normally works well on it's own. I thought since the halogens are so plentiful in the "deep red" zone that they would really add a lot of "power" to the spectrum. I was wrong, they didn't do shit. It might have been because I added them really late into flower and the plants couldn't adapt to the lights fast enough.

BUT, it also might be due the fact that the halogens are very high in the green/yellow/IR spectrums and throw the entire spectrum balance off. We are searching for a ratio of wavelengths, that is strain specific.

Back to the yellow T5's. You guys, there is nothing special about these lamps, they are just plentiful in the "red-spectra."

If you ever see a T5 or any other florescent SPD chart that looks like an even "wave" across the whole spectrum, IT'S A BIG FAT LIE!!!!!!! No florescent lamp spectrum is evenly distributed across the whole visible spectrum.

Most floro lamps contain mercury which actually peaks at 185nm. That's somewhere in the UVc zone. Obviously this would be REALLY bad, but when they add the phosphor coating to the inside of the glass tubes, it blocks the 185nm wavelength and turns that energy into the visible light wavelengths.

The phosphors create PEAKS across the visible spectrum and so do MH and HPS. The SPD will never look like a gradual wave or curve across the x,y axis so if you see it, you should question the authenticity and honesty of that lamp company.

But, if it works, it works. So buy the cheapest crap that works and stick with it if that's what makes you happy, but if you want to see dense ass buds that actually beat HPS and MH watt to gram and in quality or whatever and also utilizes T5's or leds or any other low powered light source, then keep trying. I'm sure we will see it happen some day.

Sorry for the rambling, wanted to clear some misconceptions up that even I was mislead by in the industry at one time.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
If you look at the spd for Florasun, I think you will have the basic ratio, then adjust slightly for Indica or Sat
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I agree about the florasuns.........granted I only tried three different configs(don't have the $$) and the florasuns(3-24w in an eight bulb panel) really showed an improvement over my all white(6400k agrobrite-hydrofarm) in my setup...........adding the 2 new wave(blue) bulbs was a mistake/slowed growth...
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
If you look at the spd for Florasun, I think you will have the basic ratio, then adjust slightly for Indica or Sat
Has anyone tried using only the Florasuns for growing yet? I haven't seen this done before.

I've tried combining them with 6500k daylight lamps at a 50/50 mix and had some crazy growth. The results were fast growth rate with major stretching. I think the stretching was due to the abundance of green in both the 6500k and the Florasuns. Just a guess though.

It could have been from all the yellow 610nm in the 6500k. The Florasuns have some yellow as well. Maybe it's both.

I know that IR is supposed to be responsible for some of the stretching, but I believe that abundant yellow light causes major stretch maybe even more so than Infra-Red. HPS does the same thing and it's pretty much a giant peak at 610nm, and when you look at a SPD from a HPS, there isn't much IR in them. That's why I think the majority of the major stretch is caused from the abundance of the yellow wavelength.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I think an all florasun setup should work well throughout......the problem I pay 15 bucks a pop here locally and the ones I have already shown signs of filament wear at the end caps with less than three months use.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
That's why I'm starting to get over par t5. Bulbs are not lasting. A few made it to almost a year. 3 burned out in 8 months. 2 more 2 months later. Replacing 8 bulbs costs more than hps. I do get better results under t5 though. The bulbs burning out have hit me at the wrong time. I'm rockin 6 bulbs right now on my 8 bulb.

When i get the next led and new bulbs for t5 ( in 2-3 weeks). I will take the 1000 down for the 5th time and be able to cover the area properly with 2 led's. Might not get a 3rd led for now. I'll do t5 and led and compare. t5 and led the best of both worlds
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Maybe it's time to move on finally?! hehe, Who's down for a new thread? Maybe we should call it "Leds WITH Leds," my first Led grow? LOL Ok, I'm on it. Almost ready to start my first genuine ALL LED grow.

No more wasted electricity through heat and messed up wavelength ratio and through cooling the damn super hot ass lamps! Yay! No more burned out fucked up defective Sunpulse bulbs! Yay! No more risk of fire! Yay! No more big fat super huge dense buds! Wait what?! Guess we'll find out soon enough! LOL
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I get big dense buds under my t5 even denser than my 1000 watt. Thats due to IR. You keep changing bulbs with out doing a full run with just one set up. only change bulbs once every batch (2-3 months). Not every few days. Otherwise you can't judge which bulbs did what. Experimenting takes time just like breeding strains. That takes 2 years minimum to back cross 2 strains.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
Fonzarelli, you wouldn't by any chance have one of these new UVL 660nm bulbs you could test?
i tried to tell id throw him 20$s.... i want to see more of these graphs really i want you to test for UV from HQI halide with the glass removed or a thin layer of borosilicate between the light and plants.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's time to move on finally?! hehe, Who's down for a new thread? Maybe we should call it "Leds WITH Leds," my first Led grow? LOL Ok, I'm on it. Almost ready to start my first genuine ALL LED grow.

No more wasted electricity through heat and messed up wavelength ratio and through cooling the damn super hot ass lamps! Yay! No more burned out fucked up defective Sunpulse bulbs! Yay! No more risk of fire! Yay! No more big fat super huge dense buds! Wait what?! Guess we'll find out soon enough! LOL
Well the point of this thread is/was an alternative to more expensive lighting, whether it's cost to neutralize heat of HIDs, or high cost of equivalent LED watts. That said, the cost of leds is coming down and DIYers are cutting a path through the manufacturers BS as to which spectrums for v/b
 
Top