Barack Obama Wants U.S. Economic Failure

B

beenthere

New Member
canndo said:
Really? Really Beenthere? he didn't lie? He claimed Obama shut an auto plant that was shut under Bush. He claims Obama is gutting medicare, he claims that Obama gave welfare to work waivers - every major news source has found these things to be outright lies. Are you really going to simply claim otherwise? Further, as I said, their campaign came out and said that they were not going to be goverend by the truth.


Are you actually going to contend otherwise here? Nothing hackish about asking about blatant lies.


Or have you checked Beenthere?
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I have zero knowledge of the auto plant closure so I won't comment on it.
But i will agree that Obama is taking over $700billion from medicare.

And this is from factcheck.org.

"A Mitt Romney TV ad claims the Obama administration has adopted a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements.” The plan does neither of those things.


  • Work requirements are not simply being “dropped.” States may now change the requirements — revising, adding or eliminating them — as part of a federally approved state-specific plan to increase job placement.


Close enough for me bro!
Do you know of any outright Obama lies or do you just want to ignore them?
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
you forgot the other parts from fact check

And it won’t “gut” the 1996 law to ease the requirement. Benefits still won’t be paid beyond an allotted time, whether the recipient is working or not.

Romney’s ad also distorts the facts when it says that under President Obama’s plan “you wouldn’t have to work and wouldn’t have to train for a job.” The law never required all welfare recipients to work. Only 29 percent of those receiving cash assistance met the work requirement by the time President Obama took office.
Under the new policy, states can now seek a federal waiver from work-participation rules that, among other things, require welfare recipients to engage in one of 12 specific “work activities,” such as job training. But, in exchange, states must develop a plan that would provide a “more efficient or effective means to promote employment,” which may or may not include some or all of the same work activities. States also must submit an “evaluation plan” that includes “performance measures” that must be met — or the waiver could be revoked.
Ron Haskins, a former Republican House committee aide who was instrumental in the 1996 overhaul of the welfare program, told us the Obama administration should not have unilaterally changed the work-requirement rules. But Haskins said the Romney claim that Obama’s plan will “gut welfare reform” is “very misleading.”
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
I'm not so stupid as to do a ten minute google search and defend anything!
No offense.
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you need to work on your research skills...you should be able to do it under 3 minutes. again what reason should we vote for Romney, Can you please detail his plan.
 
nontheist

nontheist

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
you need to work on your research skills...you should be able to do it under 3 minutes. again what reason should we vote for Romney, Can you please detail his plan.
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Sure it takes less then 3 minutes to copy and paste from a liberal media owned fact check site, but to get the real story it takes a little more digging.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
It's very difficult to get, then agree on the real story if the two sides use proprietary and discordant libraries. One of the absolute cornerstones of a healthy social discourse is to have one universal repository for fact and history. The internet, with its spurious appearance of authority, is allowing that tenet to be ignored. cn
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
I have zero knowledge of the auto plant closure so I won't comment on it.
But i will agree that Obama is taking over $700billion from medicare.

And this is from factcheck.org.

"A Mitt Romney TV ad claims the Obama administration has adopted a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements.” The plan does neither of those things.


  • Work requirements are not simply being “dropped.” States may now change the requirements — revising, adding or eliminating them — as part of a federally approved state-specific plan to increase job placement.


Close enough for me bro!
Do you know of any outright Obama lies or do you just want to ignore them?
Click to expand...

Close enough for you - so he lied. If you don't know about the plant closing - he lied there as well. I notice you don't intend to address the fact that the Romney campaign stated that they don't intend to tell the truth.


And then there is this


On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.
Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling
.
Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush
. Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.
Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.
Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact
is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan
.
Elections should be about competing based on your record in the past and your vision for the future, not competing to see who can get away with the most lies and distortions without voters noticing or bother to care. Both parties should hold themselves to that standard. Republicans should be ashamed that there was even one misrepresentation in Ryan’s speech but sadly, there were many.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz258cyR2Ca

From your favorite news source no less - of course it is still an opinion.


Point is Beenthere, that it seems that you believe that your side never tells a lie - mostly because you don't do the reasearch to find out. That is a dangerous practice.


Obama? outright lies? I don't think he has gotten to that level yet, he has beaten the truth up pretty badly but to my knowlege, no outright lies. We will see next week though Beenthere, and I will be checking.


But here is the thing. If we let the right lie and the lies work, as they are seeming to, then what defense has the left? They cannot tackle the lies with the truth because the truth is too often more complicated than the lie.

All the Dems will have is counter - lies. The GOP has stepped up the attack to the level where very soon no one will be able to detect the truth at all in these campaigns.


And it is, unfortunately, Beenthere, people like you who have enabled them.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
nontheist said:
He knew that, I pointed it out to him when the story first surfaced. He is either too incompetent to absorb information or being a libtard and leaving important information out of his rebuttals.
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The requirement that 20 percent of the recipients be converted to work remains.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
I'm not so stupid as to do a ten minute google search and defend anything!
No offense.
Click to expand...

I am surprised at you beenthere, you seem to be attempting to be intelllectualy dishonest on this thread. The facts are plain. You are unwilling to go out there to look for them, instead accepting your party's statements at face value, using ignorance of facts as defense and finaly parsing in order to defend the indefensible. Perhaps I should not be shocked as your posts mirror what the GOP are doing.

Everyone agrees that Ryan lied Beenthere yet you claim he has not. Why is that?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
nontheist said:
Sure it takes less then 3 minutes to copy and paste from a liberal media owned fact check site, but to get the real story it takes a little more digging.
Click to expand...

. Dazzling
At least a quarter of Americans still don’t know who Paul Ryan is, and only about half who know and have an opinion of him view him favorably
.
So, Ryan’s primary job tonight was to introduce himself and make himself seem likeable, and he did that well. The personal parts of the speech were very personally delivered, especially the touching parts where Ryan talked about his father and mother and their roles in his life. And at the end of the speech, when Ryan cheered the crowd to its feet, he showed an energy and enthusiasm that’s what voters want in leaders and what Republicans have been desperately lacking in this campaign.
To anyone watching Ryan’s speech who hasn’t been paying much attention to the ins and outs and accusations of the campaign, I suspect Ryan came across as a smart, passionate and all-around nice guy — the sort of guy you can imagine having a friendly chat with while watching your kids play soccer together. And for a lot of voters, what matters isn’t what candidates have done or what they promise to do —it’s personality. On this measure, Mitt Romney has been catastrophically struggling and with his speech, Ryan humanized himself and presumably by extension, the top of the ticket.
2. Deceiving
On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.
Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling
.
Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush
. Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.
Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.
Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact
is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan
.
Elections should be about competing based on your record in the past and your vision for the future, not competing to see who can get away with the most lies and distortions without voters noticing or bother to care. Both parties should hold themselves to that standard. Republicans should be ashamed that there was even one misrepresentation in Ryan’s speech but sadly, there were many.
3. Distracting
And then there’s what Ryan didn’t talk about.
Ryan didn’t mention his extremist stance on banning all abortions with no exception for rape or incest, a stance that is out of touch with 75% of American voters
.
Ryan didn’t mention his previous plan to hand over Social Security to Wall Street.
Ryan didn’t mention his numerous votes to raise spending and balloon the deficit when George W. Bush was president
.
Ryan didn’t mention how his budget would eviscerate programs that help the poor and raise taxes on 95% of Americans in order to cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires even further and increase — yes, increase —the deficit
.
These aspects of Ryan’s resume and ideology are sticky to say the least. He would have been wise to tackle them head on and try and explain them away in his first real introduction to voters. But instead of Ryan airing his own dirty laundry, Democrats will get the chance.
At the end of his speech, Ryan quoted his dad, who used to say to him, “"Son. You have a choice: You can be part of the problem, or you can be part of the solution."
Ryan may have helped solve some of the likeability problems facing Romney, but ultimately by trying to deceive voters about basic facts and trying to distract voters from his own record, Ryan’s speech caused a much larger problem for himself and his running mate.

Sally Kohn is a Fox News contributor and writer. You can find her online at [url]http://sallykohn.com[/URL]
or on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sallykohn
.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz258vV6XCi
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Sorry canndo, I rarely watch Fox News, I told you, you were becoming a hack like Unclchesus.
Click to expand...

Hack? No Beenthere. What you are observing is my disgust for the GOP and their willingness to lie. Furthermore you are seeing my questions to you. how can you accept what they are doing? Where is your outrage? Do you not begin to believe that if they are playing such wholesale games with the truth, that maybe their candidate is not worthy of leading this country?

I really would like more from you than ducking and ignoring, I really would like to know your true emotions regarding this sort of behavior from your candidate.


Hack? no, just shock and dismay.
 
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