True Aero Growing "TAG"

[mdgcmd]

I would first like to say that it is not me that invented or coined the phrase or technique, nor will I trying to pretend I know what I am doing lol. I do not know the origins other technique and will not try and take any credit for what I have learned, and what information I present. For more detailed read on this technique please refer to THIS thread.

Now on to where I am at right now. My camera arrived late so unfortunately I have no documentation of the build process. On the other hand I am sure anyone can find a DIY grow box tutorial somewhere online . The interesting stuff is what I am in the process of doing and learning right now. So if you buckle up and sit back we can all learn together.

The acronym "TAG" is nothing special... it stands for "TRUE AERO GROWING". This method of aeroponics is no different than any other "true" aeroponic sytems. The difference in this technique though is that we will want to optimize and try and perfect the aeroponic root zone environment or TAE ("TRUE AERO ENVIRONMENT"). There are many off the shelf aero systems, but perform in more of an NFT type of way. By this I mean that these system actually coat the root zone with a film of water. TAG on the other hand does coat but instead "mists" the root zone. TAG does not saturate the root zone like those off the self systems. Now that you have a familiarity with TAG I will move onto my setup. If you are interested in trying out TAG for yourself I am sorry but as of right now I cannot help you. We much do out research together and help out one another as we learn. Please check out the link and that site as well... lots of info to be learned in that thread.

Ok so here is my system as it stand right now in my garage. As you can see there is still lots of work to be done here. I am still waiting on my CMH HID light, and ballast to arrive, and I also just bought the CAP timer that I will need for my irrigation cycles. As for right now I have my plumbing, and drainage in place work as intended.

Here you can see the pump and the plumbing lines from the res to the root chamber.

Here is a picture of the misting system within the root chamber. Believe it or not these misters are on full blast, so you see what I mean by a very fine "mist", my camera is 8.3Mp and the mist is still to fine for it to see. You can also see how I configured the drainage back to the res. I just simply cut a hole in the bottom of the root chamber, and the lid of the res. I placed a piece of 2 1/4" PVC pipe in the hole and siliconed it very cleanly. I also siliconed the other side of the tote (that sits on the lid), and both sides of the lid.

You can see the part of the PVC drain as it comes into the res. lid. I was actually very happy with how well it worked out in terms of neatness, clean looking and functionality.

The grow box is powered by it's own power outlet that simple plugs into the wall. From withing the box I will be placing two power strips that will have all the timers and whatnot. I still need to do some drilling for the wires to run, and I was also thinking about running the wires through PVC pipe to make it look all neat and clean. In this picture you can see the outlet box and the pump power supply unit.

My exhaust hole is right above the PSU and pulls from a heater grate that I installed at the bottom left side of the box. I used a heater grate so that I can shut the grate closed when the lights go out. You can also see that I made it so that the floor can roll in and out. This make res changing a lot easier on the back, that is if I ever come into the situation that I need to lift it out.

I wanted to make sure that I could remove my light and the shelf with ease as well. I did this so that maintianence would be easier if another situation should ever arrive. I installed a dimmer switch on the Votex fan but now I get a humming noise if it not on full blast. I am hoping that I can figure out how to get around having to hear that buzzing sound with out having to go and buy the votex fan controller.

Well I believe that is all I have for you all right now but I will be around often. If you have any questions regarding my setup by all mean feel free to ask. If you have any suggestion or tips that you think will come in handy please post your mind. If you have any TAG questions I will try to help but like I said before we are learning this together. There is a ton of TAG info on the forum that I linked you too earlier, do not just read that one link and expect everything to be fine. Research with me fellas and share everything that you learn with the rest of us. Enjoy the show fellas.

 

[mdgcmd]

Reserved!!

 

[mdgcmd]

Don't all say hi at once now lol.

 

[JordanTheGreat]

man, that shit looks purrdy official... i just built my first lil DIY chamber, definately not as well thought out.i think i might have to fuck wid a true aero gro next time, supposed to be a million times more productive right?

 

[mdgcmd]

Well from what I have heard and read 45% faster growth SHOULD be expected. I was playing around with a hybrid aero/NFT system that I built some time ago but never got the grow up and running because I had to move at short notice. The growth was about 25% faster tha the DWC system I was using in the past. That being said I am eager to see what this technique can really do.

I am not looing forward to seeding the plants because I already know they will veg out of controll and I fear that I will need to do an excessive amount of pruning to keep it all under control. On the other hand this is planned to be a 2-3 plant SCROG grow. Hopefully the screen will keep the plant growth somewhat manageable as I wait for the veggers to mature (about 8 weeks).

I was curious to know how many ppl here use CMH bulbs as well.

 

[bigwheel]

Well I aint sure whut is a CMF bulb so dont know if I use em or not. I am still trying to figger out how your contraption works. Are you cutting pot holes on the lid of the tote? Where do the lights go? Whuts up with the mirrors? Whut is all them L shaped PVC pipes at mid level? Whut function do the blue plastic sheet serve? Enquiring minds need to know this kinda stuff. Thanks.

Big Wheel

 

[mdgcmd]

Well BW I would be glad to answer all your questions while I smoke this bowl. A CFM bulb is a "Ceramic Metal Halide", it is designed to work with a HPS ballast. The bulb is expensive but it well worth the money...why you ask well quite simply just look here. These bulbs have a VERY MUCH better color spectrum than literally any other bulb. Also these bulbs are significantly cooler than MH/HPS while running. They also are about 25% more efficient and the mean lumens are higher. They are literally better in everyway compared to traditional MH/HPS. Please note that they are not compatable with digital ballasts.

As far as this "contraption" goes it is very simple. I hooked a pump up tp a res and connected it to some misters. It really is that simple, well you need a 200mesh filter aswell. It goes like this... on the floor is a 6inch high, 27inch wide, and an 18inch deep storage tote w/lid. This tote hold about 8 gallons and is positioned under the tote that the plants will be growing in. So now we know that the thing with the "blue plastic sheet" is the tote lid upside down. Yes it serves a purpose and that is to keep the water inside the top tote. It also doubles as a way to keep the plants above the water and the roots in the watering area. Holes are still needed to be cut, but that can wait till the kinks are worked out considering testing for leaks with water misting all over the pace could prove challenging. The lights hang from the top shelf that the PSU is sitting on. I have two screww hooks installed under the plywood shelf and I am just waiting on the light to get here. I ordered a 400w CMH and ballast for 121.00 shipped, and I already have a hood to go with it.

I am not exactly sure if you are referring to the manifold when you say L shaped PVC but I will assume so anyway. Inside the top tote is what is known to me as a manifold. This manifold is made from PVC, PVC elbows, and obviously the misters. The roots will essentially rest in the center of the misters and grow like pom poms not long hair like roots. The roots should look bright white and bushy like pom poms. For 30 seconds, avery 3 minutes these misters are pumping a micro fine mist into the root zone. Not saturating the roots but just misting them. That is the main difference between this method and the AeroGarden design. Sprayer and misters are in fact two different things yes water comes out of each of them, but one is sprayed out the other is misted. I will take it as a compliment when you called my mylar a mirror lol. What I did was measure and cut 1/4" thick cardboard to match the walls, then I taped on some mylar that I cut to fit the cardboard. The result is what you are seeing as a mirror so I guess I did a great job laying it in there.

I hope I fed you guys some good info so far, I am trying to keep you all interested and maybe pick up a fews grow buddies. I would like to entice as many of you as I can to come over to the True Aero Growing emporium.

 

[JordanTheGreat]

have you ever used those ceramic mateal halide lamps before...? i have seen them in lower wattages that have digital ballasts that are sold with them, why aren't these compatable with a horticultural digital ballast? (if its in that link then i skimmed over it)

 

[JordanTheGreat]

and just curious... if they do kick ass as much as phillips claims, then wont you need to light proof that root chamber, rez too?

 

[mdgcmd]

You are absolutely right about the rez chamber and lightproofing. I use Al foil and duct tape to light proof. I like to do this because I use half as much of my precious duct tape lol. Al foil like the box in the picture cost .98 cents and will double as freezer wrap when I am done with it.
Anyway check out THIS link for all you could ever want to know about CMH. But if you not intrested in the search and read, or just lazy this is a quote from that thread.

However, in a nut shell - The arc tube and gas charge of the CMH has a limit to the frequency that it can tolerate. The core and coil classics run at around 60hz. This is good for the CMH's arc tube. There are specially tuned e-ballasts that run at about 200-400hz and have a very specific square wave output. (wave form). If you run outside of these parameters like the 80khz - 200khz non-square wave form output that the lumatek and others use, the arc tube may rupture, color shift will be present and in some cases the arc tube will develop a resonance that can be heard and cause emi/rf interfearance with electronic devices in your home and the neighboors.

Not to mention the bulb manufacturers say NO NO NO NO!!!

So there you have it lol the reason CMH are no good for D-ballasts.

I will post up some quotes from those pages to help gather some good info right here in this thread. So keep in mind that these are not my words but the words of the great minds that first intrigued me a year ago when I first started parting this setup together.
They have become known to me as:
Pod Racer, JustaTry, PurpleSeed, and Gronut to name a few. There are many more that we can all learn from but this ifo is not easy to find.

I am looking into a thread right now regarding nutrient tables specifically for TAG.

 

[mdgcmd]

Ok so I added some small upgrades to the plumbing lines because the other ones were not flexible enough when the floor rolled out. Also this black tube is lightproof without having to tape or use foam covering. At first it was having trouble sucking up water, then I took a look and seen that the filter was backwards and needed to be taking care of. I also took a pic of the box with the light reflector in it. I guess it will give you all a better imagine of what is going on.

 

[potroast]

Good looking stuff! I assume that True Aero means always having the roots suspended, and never submerged in the runoff flow. So how much space do you have for your roots to hang? I'd say that you can count on root growth of at least a foot a week.

HTH

 

[mdgcmd]

Will the tote that the roots are in is something like 22 gallons, I would say that I have about a foot from lid to bottom. And yes you are right about the roots suspending, and because of the way I designed the system there is not really any "runoff" it drains right back into the res, but I know what you meant. I read on one of the links I posted that one of the guys was getting 2 full CM of vertical every 12 hours. The roots on the other hand really should not get to big. They are supplied with everything that they need and do not need to go looking if you know what I mean.

These are what the roots should look like, little pom pom roots is what we call them. Once again this is not my picture or my idea, but I think I am the first on this site to mention anything about it.

 

[bigwheel]

Hey MD..thanks a lot for them tips on the lights. That is whut I need most of all. Remind me later if I forget about this topic. Thanks.

Big Wheel

 

[mdgcmd]

Dude I am just happy to have helped you out. There is no need to thank me but I appreciate it without a doubt. Thank you for listening in and being intrested in my journal. I will name it later in the journal section and then copy and paste a bunch of info from here to there. Before I do all that I need to finish this box and figure out what seeds I should grow. Once I get it all together I will think of a catchy clever name that will keep us all coming back. From searching around I would say that I have a unique setup for this website. By no means is this an original idea but I haven'e seen anything like this here. I have a cutting edge light system, and virtually the very best grow method in use today. I am still crossing the learning curve and I fear that I am not even around the bend. I would like to encourage everyone to participate in this thread, and hopeful I can encourage some of you to try your hand at this technique. The info is out there and together we can popularize this method.

This method focuses on a "perfect" root zone environment. Obviously nothing is perfect so we all do our best right. We all know that DWC is a great way to grow and is pretty fast right. Now what if your plants grew 45% faster in terms of size not maturity. If you can obtain as close to a perfect root zone as possible we already know the better the root the better the plant.

Go and check out the links I posted there is an enormous amount of pictures that will impress even the most veteran of growers.

 

[potroast]

Like I said, the roots will grow to the bottom in a week, and bunch up into a thick mat of solid roots. After a couple of months, it won't look so perfect.

HTH

 

[mdgcmd]

I can't say for certain if that will happen or not but I can say that it isn't suppose to. From what I have gathered the roots do grow large but nothing like in an NFT or DWC systems. In a DWC system the water level should be lower than your netpot as I am sure most of us here know. We do this to help encourage root growth, and it can also help in root rot prevention. With an NFT system roots follow the water as is runs, when the water stops the roots go looking. The NFT systems that are similar to aero systems irrigated by a pump and sprayer I mean, the roots follow the drips down to the bottom of the tank.

With a true aero system the mist is fine enough that it is absorbed very fast through the root pores. The mist is also on only long enough to feed the roots, and NOT SATURATE them causing drips. If there is no water for the roots to try and stretch to then they won't stretch. Once you fined the right watering schedules (be it 30sec. ON/ 3min. OFF, or 40sec. ON/ 2,in. OFF) the roots will never starve for water/nutes, and will never need to go searching for water.

I think I said all that right, and it really makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

 

[mdgcmd]

I made some more progress tonight but ran into some issues as well. As far as the progress goes I got me scrog screen inplace and mounted to the lid of the tote. I think that I did a really good job attaching the screen, it is actually very taught on level. I believe the dimension are 25"x17" so that will be my total plant growth area inside the box.

As for the bad news I cannot get my pump to prime and pressurize the lines. I am not getting any mist what so ever in the tote. I am not entirely sure what the problem as of right now. Tomorrow I plan to go to HD and buy new hose and run direct from the rez to the pump. I will rig the filter up so that is it mounted to the pump instead of the middle of the suction line. In the third pic you can see the filter very well and you can notice that it looks like it is slanted, so I think it might have an effect on the pump. There is also a chance that there is a leak somewhere in the line so that is why I am running just one tube. I am thinking that this will at least tell me if there is a line leak or if my pump is pooped. I hope the pump is ok as it was very expensive and is not is the budget. I did drop it about a week ago but I have had it pumping on many occasions sense then.

 

[HATCH]

Nice Set up!!

Be nice to see some Plant's in it.HEHEHE

 

[mdgcmd]

Hahaha I wish I had plants but then again what good are they if you are not finished building there bedroom lol. I have been working out the pump issues and the damn thing seem to work when it wants to. I am going out to the garage right now to see what I can get together. Hopefully I can get things worked out better.