*uck all-female seeds

FreeRangeZombie

Active Member
Who's with me? I think these selfed seeds are a bad thing and wish they would stop selling them. I mean if you want all female plants then just buy some clones . I see an selfed seed as a virus that can pollute a seed stock with hermaphrodie tendencies or lost of a strain cause no males but I could be just high. - anyways I am all for regular seeds yay:)
 

drolove

Well-Known Member
been growing with fem seeds for a couple years now with no issues. if i start having hermi issues ill stop but until then they are 100% OK in my book.
 

dimebong

Well-Known Member
If you have the proper growing environments with no stress, and the femanized seed was bred properly, you will have no males and hermi problems. I'm not with you. Feminized seeds are handy.
 

vilify

Well-Known Member
if there is the option, fem or reg, I will ALWAYS grab the regs.
but if its not an option on a strain that I want then i grab the fems.

i have had herm issues with fem seeds, and was 99% likely not my fault, but i dont bash every fem seed because of those misfortunes.
one of my current fave strains to grow is fem, and have no issues. ch9 jack. and have grown MANY other fem strains without issue as well.

if it gets to the point where people dont want to release reg seeds (dont see that happening) i would have an issue with fems, but not until then.
 

loquacious

Well-Known Member
Who's with me? I think these selfed seeds are a bad thing and wish they would stop selling them. I mean if you want all female plants then just buy some clones . I see an selfed seed as a virus that can pollute a seed stock with hermaphrodie tendencies or lost of a strain cause no males but I could be just high. - anyways I am all for regular seeds yay:)
Yep, you are very high or just don't understand how making a stable feminized strain works. There so many myths and flat out lies about feminized seeds that makes it pointless to argue. All I will say is that a large percentage of top breeders have fem seeds and I think I will trust their years of expertise over some internet schlub!
 

FreeRangeZombie

Active Member
If I was out to make money I would also sell selfed seeds as your customers have to keep coming back to you. But if I was out to save a strain or share it I would create only regular seeds.
 

Orlandocb

Well-Known Member
Theres no way i could get my hands on clones where i live. Im sure thats the case with a lot of people
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
First learn where the stable genetics are. Then Learn to grow. Then you will see fems are a blessing. Your statements demonstrate your lack of knowledge of botany OP
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
I like making seeds, if you only offer females and no regular alternative, i'm not purchasing your seeds.

Just do this and make all the seeds you want even crosses:


The following is a safe, inexpensive, and successful method for reversing the sex of female cannabis plants. Individual plant responses may vary based upon strain, but I can verify that this process is fully effective in stimulating profuse staminate flower production.




This process can be used to:
A: create new feminized seeds from solitary prize mothers that you currently have
B: create interesting feminized-seed hybrids from different prize strains that you currently have
C: create feminized seeds for optimum outdoor use
D: accelerate the "interview" phase of cultivation, in searching for interesting new clone-mothers
E: reduce total plant numbers- great for medical users with severe plant number restrictions
F: increase variety, by helping to create stable feminized seedlines to be used as an alternative to clones


At the bottom of this post are some specific details about the chemicals used, their safety, their cost, and where to get them.


It is important to educate yourself about cannabis breeding theory and technique prior to using a method like this one. [removed dead link]


It is also important to use basic safety precautions when mixing and handling these chemicals, so read the safety data links provided. The risk is similar to mixing and handling chemical fertilizers, and similar handling procedures are sufficient.


Remember: nothing will ever replace good genetics, and some of your bounty should always go back towards the professional cannabis breeders out there... the ones who have worked for many generations to come up with their true-breeding F1 masterpieces. Support professional breeders by buying their seeds. [removed link to shut down bank]


-------------------------------------


Preparation of STS:
First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.


Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.


Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water


The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.


The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).


This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.


Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss. Excess working solution can be safely poured down the drain after use (with ample running water) with negligible environmental impact. It's pretty cheap.


Each liter of stock STS will make ten 1-liter batches of working solution of STS. With the minimum amount of base chemicals ordered from Photographer's Formulary (see link below), this means that each 1-liter bottle of working solution STS costs less than 9 cents, and can treat 15-20 mid-sized plants. That's 200 1-liter batches of STS for $18. Note that the distilled water costs far more than the chemicals.


-------------------------------------


Application:
The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.


After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.


So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.


A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.


-------------------------------------


Effects:
Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.


It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.


When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.


When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.


A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.


Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidentally. Points downwind; don’t let it get on your hands or clothes.


This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.


If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes its flowering cycle.


Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.


Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.


-------------------------------------




About the chemicals:
Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.


Where to get the chemicals:
photoformulary.com http://www.photoformulary.com


silver nitrate: 10 grams: $10
sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous): 100 grams: $3.95
Postage runs around $4. Fast service. [verified!]


Have fun experimenting with this technique. Use it responsibly. There are a few good threads here at CW that goes into the pros and cons of transsexual agents and feminized seeds. Read them. And most importantly, use STS with quality F1 strains developed by professional breeders for the most consistent results
 

gudkarma

New Member
agree+

i love fem gear.

& always have a few fems in the mix if only to save time & energy & effort.

did you know there's a natural way to fem beans w/o STS ?
probably not.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
Who's with me? I think these selfed seeds are a bad thing and wish they would stop selling them. I mean if you want all female plants then just buy some clones . I see an selfed seed as a virus that can pollute a seed stock with hermaphrodie tendencies or lost of a strain cause no males but I could be just high. - anyways I am all for regular seeds yay:)
So in other words, you dont know what you are talking about.
 

Clankie

Well-Known Member
Well, here's my two cents. The thing that keeps me away from feminized seed is that now that I have some space to work with, and a fairly high legal plant count, I usually pop 3-4 beans as a test, and if I particularly like the results I want to be able work the line a little, or look around for a killer male to breed with. I also like lines that are worked to F3 or beyond, as they have a more reliable rate of passing on their traits to most of their offspring phenos. this is why I would take a bx2 or IBL over the selfed version of a clone only. I haven't grown enough feminized seed to way in on it, and since I haven't bought any, just received them as freebies, even though I would have to give the reg seeds a slight edge in the vigor department, that might be more due to the companies they came from.

I certainly have n othing against other people buying fems, and anyone who thinks that regs are going out of style or something is delusional. Many awesome breeders are making plenty of awesome regular seeds, and there's no reason to go around hatin'.

Fem seeds may (and there are scientific reasons both for and against this) be more likely to herm in situations that are known to cause intersexing in cannabis, but so will any reg seed with fruity thai genetics in it. To put it in an extremely callous analogy, any parents can end up with a retarded kid, and there certainly hasn't been enough legitimate scientific research on the involvement of genetics in cannabis intersex behavior to have a conclusive opinion one way or the other.
 

Clankie

Well-Known Member
I respect you opinion, the very concept of a 'seed industry' for cannabis makes me vaguely queasy and brings up images mainly of greenhouse seeds, barneys farm, and the way certain dispensaries in CO are trying to walmartize what was once the only good example of free market economics in the civilized world. Are there any breeders out there who you do support?
 

sensisensai

Well-Known Member
Not really. There are plenty with solid gear. Tga rare rankness royal dutch genetics. Quite a few very solid breeders however their prices are total horseshit. That will open a great can of worms as it always does but I know what it cost to grow and I know what it cost to breed so I know there's no chance in hell I'd pay the seedbank prices. I'm all for free market and making small profit but to be sustained or stable isn't enough anymore. Hebrew they put out garbage like autoflower and fem seed and charge DOUBLE. And fools line up by the dozen to indulge. I firmly believe they do more harm than they ever will good. But I'm the type that thinks anything outside of traditional breeding practice is counter productive. I don't want Monsanto weed
 

Clankie

Well-Known Member
Not really. There are plenty with solid gear. Tga rare rankness royal dutch genetics. Quite a few very solid breeders however their prices are total horseshit. That will open a great can of worms as it always does but I know what it cost to grow and I know what it cost to breed so I know there's no chance in hell I'd pay the seedbank prices. I'm all for free market and making small profit but to be sustained or stable isn't enough anymore. Hebrew they put out garbage like autoflower and fem seed and charge DOUBLE. And fools line up by the dozen to indulge. I firmly believe they do more harm than they ever will good. But I'm the type that thinks anything outside of traditional breeding practice is counter productive. I don't want Monsanto weed
I would recommend you check out sannies. You have to sign for it, but his prices are great, and the prices of the other breeders he sells are usually even better. Plenty of regs, and a bunch of lines that are worked past F2. Sannie also has exceptional customer service, I recently had a weird billing issue with them (not like a fraud thing or anything) and he went above and beyond in fixing the problem.
 

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Just do this and make all the seeds you want even crosses:


The following is a safe, inexpensive, and successful method for reversing the sex of female cannabis plants. Individual plant responses may vary based upon strain, but I can verify that this process is fully effective in stimulating profuse staminate flower production.




This process can be used to:
A: create new feminized seeds from solitary prize mothers that you currently have
B: create interesting feminized-seed hybrids from different prize strains that you currently have
C: create feminized seeds for optimum outdoor use
D: accelerate the "interview" phase of cultivation, in searching for interesting new clone-mothers
E: reduce total plant numbers- great for medical users with severe plant number restrictions
F: increase variety, by helping to create stable feminized seedlines to be used as an alternative to clones


At the bottom of this post are some specific details about the chemicals used, their safety, their cost, and where to get them.


It is important to educate yourself about cannabis breeding theory and technique prior to using a method like this one. [removed dead link]


It is also important to use basic safety precautions when mixing and handling these chemicals, so read the safety data links provided. The risk is similar to mixing and handling chemical fertilizers, and similar handling procedures are sufficient.


Remember: nothing will ever replace good genetics, and some of your bounty should always go back towards the professional cannabis breeders out there... the ones who have worked for many generations to come up with their true-breeding F1 masterpieces. Support professional breeders by buying their seeds. [removed link to shut down bank]


-------------------------------------


Preparation of STS:
First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.


Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.


Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water


The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.


The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).


This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.


Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss. Excess working solution can be safely poured down the drain after use (with ample running water) with negligible environmental impact. It's pretty cheap.


Each liter of stock STS will make ten 1-liter batches of working solution of STS. With the minimum amount of base chemicals ordered from Photographer's Formulary (see link below), this means that each 1-liter bottle of working solution STS costs less than 9 cents, and can treat 15-20 mid-sized plants. That's 200 1-liter batches of STS for $18. Note that the distilled water costs far more than the chemicals.


-------------------------------------


Application:
The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.


After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.


So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.


A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.


-------------------------------------


Effects:
Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.


It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.


When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.


When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.


A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.


Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidentally. Points downwind; don’t let it get on your hands or clothes.


This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.


If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes its flowering cycle.


Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.


Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.


-------------------------------------




About the chemicals:
Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.


Where to get the chemicals:
photoformulary.com http://www.photoformulary.com


silver nitrate: 10 grams: $10
sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous): 100 grams: $3.95
Postage runs around $4. Fast service. [verified!]


Have fun experimenting with this technique. Use it responsibly. There are a few good threads here at CW that goes into the pros and cons of transsexual agents and feminized seeds. Read them. And most importantly, use STS with quality F1 strains developed by professional breeders for the most consistent results
Or alternatively I could.d just put a male plant next to a female plant and let nature run its course.

I have no interest giving money to people who will only make female seeds. I want seeds from a breeder who is doing it for more than the money.
 
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