New Experimental Advanced DIY Designs.

[stardustsailor]

Nope ...
Probably not ...
CW leds are not needed ..
Since their blue part (which is problematically way high for yield quantity -wise ) ,is obtained by the WW leds (~same blue die )

While the rest of G & R wls from CW ,are already provided by WW ( again ) and NW ....

NW also offer "deeper " blue light ( shorter wl blue die than CW ,while phosphor mix remains almost the same ....
Thus the more "neutral " light ....Less visible blue wls ,than CW ..Less powerful (=>visible to the human eye ! photometrically only ...) blue light..
So light appears less "cool " to human eye ,even though phosphor(type/blend) is approx the same in NW & CW leds ...
More ..Neutral ...So ..

CW phosphor emission = NW phosphor emission (roughly ...)
CW die is ~455-465 nm (same as WW )
NW die is ~ 440-450 nm


So ....Many WW = Lots of red ,followed by yellow /amber ,followed by green ,followed by blue ~455-465 nm ,followed by FR ..
In Power-wise order ...From the most powerful to the least (relative powers )

And some NW to provide lower end of blue wls ,along with a boost of green/yellows ...Followed by reds and FR ....

Simple ...And probably quite effective ..
(Specially with High CRI WW leds .....
Difference from Cheapo WW & NW ,has to be ,if not "huge" ,then at least "considerable "....

 

[stardustsailor]

I trust that blue light ,is way counteractive to production regarding quantity ....
A bit more of Blue light and the impact on yield is " geometrically or logarithmically " greater ..

Though ,blue light impacts(also radically ) overall yield quality ...
(aroma/taste for sure ,as for potency ,there are some serious indications about it ,also ...)
....

One of the most common "mistakes" of Led growing ....

Way too much blue light ....

 

[PetFlora]

So ONE NW in the center surrounded by WWs per Merkaba engine?

 

[stardustsailor]

I will make it more ...."mystical " for you ....

Any circle of any given radius ,can be "surrounded " (perimeters touching )with 6-of same radius -circles .
Only .
Not one less ,not one more ....


No matter the radius ...

(Try it ...)
So ..

7 circles ..
One in center (NW -to disperse blue light ,all over )
And 6 (WW ) around it ...


WW:NW =6:1

(Like 30 x WW & 5 x NW ..... )

That's the most simple ( and probably most effective ?? ) light ,for general plant growth ...
(I will analyse it later on...It resembles much of the natural summer sunlight,that reaches Earth's surface ... ....)

 

[guod]

lets say the current through all resistors is 10mA. there is no need for more

all resistor together(sum) has to be 1000 ohm for 10mA

getting 5V is simple, 2 Resistors at 500 ohm. the nearest you can get is 510 or 560 ohm (E12/E24 Series)

for 3 different settings 2.5V; 4V; 7V

2.5V has to be 250 ohm (R=U x I) #1

4V needs 400 ohm. we have 250 ohm from the last one, so 150 ohm for this one

7V needs 700 ohm. 400 we have from the last two, so 300 ohm for this one

at least we need to get 1000 ohm a 300 ohm and we are done.

#1 - for exact voltage you need sometimes 2 resistors(240 + 10 ohm)
----------------------------------
E-series
E12 ( 10%): 10 12 15 18 22 27 33 39 47 56 68 82

E24 ( 5%): 10 11 12 13 15 16 18 20 22 24 27 30 33 36 39 43 47 51 56 62 68 75 82 91

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_number#E_series:_Capacitors_and_resistors

 

[stardustsailor]

Thanx...
...
Trying to find out ,best placement of three 12x led engines 30x50 mm ,on the heatsink ...
In a row they 'll heat the heatsink at central part ....
If in "triangle" shape (like on uploaded photo ,in previous post ) ,kinda " odd " looking ....


BTW...I've contacted Meodex....
They 're able to make almost any design ,either in complete led engine or just PCB (with custom selection leds presoldered also .....)
From just one piece,up to thousands ....

Our three main activities are :

1. We make available for online sales standard MCPCB products designed by MEODEX™, LED optics from LEDIL, thermal pads, power supllies, standard light engines from MEODEX.

2. We can assemble your LED on MCPCBs, your light engines : from prototypes to mass production quantities.

3. Our engineers can design for you : MCPCB GERBER files, special light engines, optical studies

PS : You fans blow air onto the heatsink or suck from it ?
Cause ,the design ,allows also for cooling by "sucking" cold air ...
Those flat small bars,create a ' funnel ' effect ,along with the fins .....
So ,ingoing air current can possibly be effective ..
Which one is best ,though ? (at this case ...)
Don't remember good enough ....

 

[HiloReign]

Since we're on the subject of merkaba and white LEDs...

I've put together a 10xWW 3xNW order at cutter, along with the rest of the parts.

Out of boredom (and gift cards ) I decided to determine (to the best of my ability) an ideal ratio of WW:NW. I thought I'd start with what I thought was too much blue and work my way towards a warmer spectrum. That's if I don't get distracted before it all goes down.. lol.

Here's a link to the Cree XTE LEDs that I will be using.

The website I got them from suggest that my NW/WW are of the highest BIN on the sheet. I, for one, won't be able to tell the difference anyway but I won't be too surprised if they aren't what they say they are.

The design is attributed to Guod and PetFlora!!! And after you're done laughing at my windows paint design, tell me what you think about the placement of the NW please! And before I forget: a link to my driver (LPC-35-700).

I believe this design to be the "top" design (sitting above plants as opposed to intracanopy/sidelighting). I don't believe I'll use just one merkaba array, either. Perhaps a bar of merkaba (mimicking a 2.14gpw grow I saw on ICmag utilizing LEDs, that of which I haven't seen outperformed by LEDs)?

 

[stardustsailor]

The design is both well drawn and provides an excellent light homogeneity ...
My point of view ,about it ...

Out of boredom (and gift cards

)....

Gift cards ?
????

............

(mimicking a 2.14gpw grow I saw on ICmag utilizing LEDs, that of which I haven't seen outperformed by LEDs..

Done by a 630nm red +CW led combo .....

Dunno about occasional "peaks " ....Main thing (regarding yields )to get with leds is a stable >1gpw mark ....
At " average " .....


......................
Warm white available in 85- and
90-CRI min.(<= this one !!! )

&#8226; New: available in 2200 K CCT!!!!!!!.....Really ?
But it seems that spectral curve from 2600K - 3700K CCT is a tad " better " in greens

........while 2200 K has way less blue ....
You have 3 NW ..enough blue there ....and greens ...
So 2600K - 3700K CCT ,might prove of a lot of blue/green ....
.....
Should you go for
4 x 2600K - 3700K at center
and 6 x 2200 K ,outwards,at perimeter ?


Edit : both seem to be of a G+R phosphor combo ....
Though at 2200 K led spectral graph ,the "bump" of G phosphor is just barely distinguishable ....
It seems to be the same green phosphor in both leds ...Just in different load ....

 

[guod]

on both design the fan blows air onto the heatsink. (ever try to suck heat of from hot food?)
best way is always to press air between the fins. this will also blow out some dust.

on the big one the outlet is greater than the intake area. > low pressure; low noise, good for fans 10-15mm and relative short fins
on the other one i go for the opposite design, outtake is about 20% lesser. > more pressure, more noise; the fan here is 30mm deep

 

[stardustsailor]

on both design the fan blows air onto the heatsink. (ever try to suck heat of from hot food?)
best way is always to press air between the fins. this will also blow out some dust.

Fair enough ....Although it is said that sucking air ,in certain cases is more efficient ...(Maybe I'm wrong ..Don't remember..)

on the big one the outlet is greater than the intake area. > low pressure; low noise, good for fans 10-15mm and relative short fins

10-15mm ?? distance of fan from fins ? Or size of fans ?

on the other one i go for the opposite design, outtake is about 20% lesser. > more pressure, more noise; the fan here is 30mm deep

..but better cooling ,isn't that so ?


the fan here is 30mm deep..

Now,you caught me off-guard ..And ?
" Deep" ?
Closer to fins ?

 

[guod]

The design is attributed to Guod and PetFlora!!! And after you're done laughing at my windows paint design, tell me what you think about the placement of the NW please! And before I forget: a link to my driver (LPC-35-700).

you need a fan at this power and layout (700mA = 30W)

 

[PetFlora]

Since we're on the subject of merkaba and white LEDs...


View attachment 2493198
I believe this design to be the "top" design (sitting above plants as opposed to intracanopy/sidelighting). I don't believe I'll use just one merkaba array, either. Perhaps a bar of merkaba (mimicking a 2.14gpw grow I saw on ICmag utilizing LEDs, that of which I haven't seen outperformed by LEDs)?

Too much NW/Merkaba engine?

Start with one NW in the center, surrounded by 6 WW

To connect/interface multiple M engines, IMHO, the NWs should be in an imaginary straight line that passes through the central M engine: 3 total diodes including the central M engine

That way I think you will be duplicating exact NW/WW combinations where NW is in the center of each engine. Try it....

Encircle the central M engine with quasi-duplicate engines, where the 2 sets of 2 parallel diodes serve double duty with the adjoining Quasi-M engine (quasi in that it will not have the 2 NWs that abut the central (original/complete 7 diode M engine.
Please post that image.

Each abutting engine will have only 5 diodes unless you are using pre- cut 6 diode Merkaba shaped mcpcb. In that case close enough for horseshoes

 

[guod]

the fan here is 30mm deep..
high ..height ..thick ... baked

 

[HiloReign]

For the family that remembers me during the holidays, I was lucky enough to get a gift card (I'm 2 years clean off of a 4 1/2 year coke and everything in between binge. They agreed long ago never to give me cold hard cash.). Anyhow...

I can't speak on Mr. X's behalf about him spiking 2.14gpw, but I definitely feel that LEDs will shortly fill the gaps between those spikes.

I've ordered the parts already because I'm attempting to teach some friends about DIY LED, growing, etc. so that will be fun.

The 2200k confused me, I thought maybe it wasn't made yet or whatever (Regardless, I didn't look ).

4 x 2600K - 3700K at center
and 6 x 2200 K ,outwards,at perimeter ?

This looks great... It will be the basis of the rest of my lighting scheme. I plan to use the blue-er designs to sit atop plants/veg/clone them. During flowering I'd like to run at least 3x "warm" arrays for every "blue" array. Considering this scheme, I like the sound of:
3x 2600-3700k
10x 2200k (perimeter)

It's too bad I don't have the ingenuity to design a bigger merkaba, made up of 13 merkaba arrays. Merkaba on merkaba on merkaba... Lol...



This is a rough image of what I'm trying to say. Imagine the plant directly under the blue array and the warm arrays "supplementing" three sides.

 

[PetFlora]

Not sure you saw my post #112 prior to this

IF you can, simply duplicate the original M engine drawing, sans 2 diodes on one side. You can then fit the 5 diode engines together, creating a quasi- circle

If not, consider eliminating the additional diodes on the central M engine, on your drawing. Perhaps this M engine is all NW and the extreme outer engines WW

 

[HiloReign]

Too much NW/Merkaba engine?

Like I said, I'd like to start with more blue than I believe is needed so I can fine tune it myself. I won't say that I don't believe a warmer spectrum is the way to go (because I do), I felt that I needed to put myself through the paces (so to speak). I'd like to have my own grasp on these concepts, rather than what I gathered elsewhere.

I like NW in the center, it just makes sense. Although, I don't think I fully understand what you mean.

Something along those lines?

EDIT:

 

[HiloReign]

you need a fan at this power and layout (700mA = 30W)

I'm in the process of finding a fan that'll fit right in there, but fear I am ill-equipped knowledge wise.

 

[stardustsailor]

.....
Direct spectral comparison ...


XTE :
Blue peak at ~450 nm
XTE 2200 K : 30% Rel.Power
XTE 2600 K : 50% Rel.Power

Green Phosphor "peak/bump " :
Probably around ~530 nm
XTE 2200 K : ~30% Rel.Power
XTE 2600 K : ~50% Rel.Power

Red phosphor peak at ~ 610 nm
Rel.Power= 100%
( ~ 50% at 660 nm )

SSL:
Blue peak at ~455 nm ,~50+ %

Green Phosphor "peak/bump "
Probably around ~550 nm , ~63-65 % Rel.Power

Red phosphor peak at ~ 630 nm
Rel.Power= 100%
(~80% at 660 nm )


........


.......

Ideal Warm White led for plant growth ? :

Blue peak at ~455 nm ,~20-30 %

Green Phosphor "peak/bump "
Probably around ~560 nm , ~50 % Rel.Power

Red phosphor peak at ~ 645 nm
Rel.Power= 100%
(~90% at 660 nm )

..????

 

[stardustsailor]

Quiz :

From these 3 combos for creating white light ......




Yellow +blue=white
Red+Cyan =White
Green+ Magenta (violet )= white


1-Can they all be used for making different warm/cool shades white light ?
Is there one that can not produce warm or cool light ?

2- Could we had i.e. a green die and blue/red phosphor mix to make white light ?
OR a red die and blue/green phosphors ? ( be careful now....Photon Energy ..)



P.S.:

(Pet...See the graph ...Every line that passes from point E (equal energy of all wls { cy=0.33 / cx=0.33 } =daylight white light
So ..One in the center ..6 points around ..... ...
Even here ...At diamond crystal ,at ,at ....at many-many -many places ...1 'core' ,6 'satellites'

Old stories say :

7 is the number of "angels ". " Angel " comes from ancient greek verb - &#945;&#947;&#947;&#941;&#955;&#969; - pronounced < hagge'lo > and means " annunciate "......
( Their "seal" is always a 7-point star ....So,they say ,the old stories ..)
7 is the number of Hermes (Mercury / "the interpreter"), reflecting Hermes' function as divine messenger.....
7 are the "flowers" of "vegetable" part of us ..(Autonomic nervous system -chakras )

- "What is the above is from the below and the below is from the above."...
Tabula Smaragdina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet

 

[HiloReign]

I believe they all can produce white light. Although, the slight influences of other colors is what makes it warm, neutral etc.

Those SSLs simply kick ass. Unfortunately, the cost and learning to reflow solder caused me to put the idea of an SSL panel on the back burner (paired with curiousity between 3w/1w). My half-assed DIY LEDs will suffice for now, I'm still excited to see what the XTEs can do.