videoman40
Well-Known Member
Dude, you misread the post, it was suppose to be the difference between one 1000 watt light @ 150,000 lumens vs two 430 watt lights@ 55,000 lumens each.
Peace
Peace
Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks
- Thread starter Al B. Fuct
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akidynoken
Active Member
as of this morning the clones are looking great,growing with vigor. Man i'm exicted about this grow!!
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Sounds good. Have you got a peak-memory digital thermo? Very useful thing to have. I have a few peak-mem thermometer/hygrometers. The humidity number is a very good thing to know.
However, now is a very good time to relax. Try not to kill your plants with kindness.
Your next job, in about 1.5 weeks, will be to trim off any branching which appears on the lower 1/3 of the mainstems- and do it again at about wk3. I have to tell ya, this was the hardest thing to train myself to do. Cutting stuff off a flowering plant is very counterintuitive. It took a while before I pruned ENOUGH off the plant to make it work right.
If you've pruned correctly, by the end of flowering in wk 8, there will be no buds on branches longer than about 1/4" on your plants and you will get just the fat top colas and larger buds which appear directly on the mainstems.
However, now is a very good time to relax. Try not to kill your plants with kindness.
Your next job, in about 1.5 weeks, will be to trim off any branching which appears on the lower 1/3 of the mainstems- and do it again at about wk3. I have to tell ya, this was the hardest thing to train myself to do. Cutting stuff off a flowering plant is very counterintuitive. It took a while before I pruned ENOUGH off the plant to make it work right.
If you've pruned correctly, by the end of flowering in wk 8, there will be no buds on branches longer than about 1/4" on your plants and you will get just the fat top colas and larger buds which appear directly on the mainstems.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
A difference of opinion is one thing- just plain wrong is something else, russ0r.
F
FallenHero
Guest
and that's going to happen no matter where you go in life, something i have learned myself to come to terms with. sometime's one side must drop the argument for his or her own serenity. Really - fighting so hard to proove someone wrong that most likeley wont ever think they are, is a waste of your energies, and i'm sure you agree. There's alot of myth and fiction out there, it's got to be left up to the reader to form their own opinion.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
All true and fair enough. However, it's just a bit hard to sit there quietly and smiling while someone says something won't work when I smoke the results all the time. Naturally, smoking the results makes the smiling part a bit easier, tho. 
I think my case is fairly well proven, not too stressed about it.
I think my case is fairly well proven, not too stressed about it.
F
FallenHero
Guest
then all is well, you have pics to back up you're op, and it looks great.All true and fair enough. However, it's just a bit hard to sit there quietly and smiling while someone says something won't work when I smoke the results all the time. Naturally, smoking the results makes the smiling part a bit easier, tho.
I think my case is fairly well proven, not too stressed about it.
when do i get some of that smoke to test btw?
:drunk:
TillthedayiDIE420
Well-Known Member
well some one is mad -repin me lol i have like 7 new -reps fuckin people
akidynoken
Active Member
hey i'm not trying to argue with anybody here just trying to get the right info, by the looks of what you've got rowing, you have the info that I need, and nobody on any forum has given me the advice that you have, so needless of who or what anyone says, until someone can show or give pics at doing it better than you, I'll just take your word for it because it sure looks like you know whats going on!!!!
videoman40
Well-Known Member
Dude relax, I dont blame you for just being plain wrong. (that was a jab) again relax.
You have your opinion, and I have mine, if you looked at it with an open mind, you'd see that the choice is actaully a very close call. Having it this close, it really dosent matter.
I was just trying to show you another side of the coin, dont take it personal. DAMN!
I've taken the liberty for you to review the point I was trying to make to you below, and you gotta admit, having two lights does have some benefits over one.
Let me repeat the main thing here, the difference between a 1000 watter and two 430's is very close indeed! I feel that when you factor in the difference in distance from the plants canopy, the 1000 watt light has to be further away, coupled with the benefit of two lights, using two 430 watt lights wins.
Using the chart, the 430’s at 8” put out 38,000 lumens, the 1000 watt light puts out 33,000 at 14” away, so, as you can see, this is pretty close. Of course you would have to double the total lumens for the 430 watt light, as there are two 430’s not just one.
So at 8” you have 76,000 lumens vs only 32,000 for the 1000 watt light.
More than double the light, that was the point I was tryng to make.
You can take it all and toss it for all I care though.
Peace
"I usually have a 1,000 watt light about 14” from the plant tops and a 400 about 8” from the plant tops. In both cases, you’re getting about 35,000 Foot-Candles at the top of the plants.
The 1,000 watt light is putting out more lumens and the tops of the plants are a bit farther away from the bulb, so the 1,000 will penetrate farther. The light won’t go through a leaf or any solid object. So, 2 feet down a plant the light is shaded heavily by leaves. Light penetration is decreased by more than the square of the distance due to the leaves being in the way.
This would tend to make you want to run out and grab the 1,000, but there’s a bit more to it.
Now, you’re also talking about 430’s, which would deliver 60 more watts total, and would only be 140 watts shy of the 1,000. I like to spread the light out more and try to keep the plants more compact. This way you also don’t have as much canopy to penetrate and you can really grow a greater number of shorter plants. If it were my choice, I’d go with the two 430’s. LOL! We came to the same conclusion in a bit of a different manner.
I actually like the 600 watt light due to the fact that it is more efficient than either the 400 or the 1,000 and gives the best of both worlds for spreading light and giving good penetration.
Obviously 2 600 watters would be a better solution that either the 430's or the 1000 light.
Multiple lights will always cover a given area better than a single light....and possibly save you some electricity dollars"
You have your opinion, and I have mine, if you looked at it with an open mind, you'd see that the choice is actaully a very close call. Having it this close, it really dosent matter.
I was just trying to show you another side of the coin, dont take it personal. DAMN!
I've taken the liberty for you to review the point I was trying to make to you below, and you gotta admit, having two lights does have some benefits over one.
Let me repeat the main thing here, the difference between a 1000 watter and two 430's is very close indeed! I feel that when you factor in the difference in distance from the plants canopy, the 1000 watt light has to be further away, coupled with the benefit of two lights, using two 430 watt lights wins.
Using the chart, the 430’s at 8” put out 38,000 lumens, the 1000 watt light puts out 33,000 at 14” away, so, as you can see, this is pretty close. Of course you would have to double the total lumens for the 430 watt light, as there are two 430’s not just one.
So at 8” you have 76,000 lumens vs only 32,000 for the 1000 watt light.
More than double the light, that was the point I was tryng to make.
You can take it all and toss it for all I care though.
Peace
"I usually have a 1,000 watt light about 14” from the plant tops and a 400 about 8” from the plant tops. In both cases, you’re getting about 35,000 Foot-Candles at the top of the plants.
The 1,000 watt light is putting out more lumens and the tops of the plants are a bit farther away from the bulb, so the 1,000 will penetrate farther. The light won’t go through a leaf or any solid object. So, 2 feet down a plant the light is shaded heavily by leaves. Light penetration is decreased by more than the square of the distance due to the leaves being in the way.
This would tend to make you want to run out and grab the 1,000, but there’s a bit more to it.
Now, you’re also talking about 430’s, which would deliver 60 more watts total, and would only be 140 watts shy of the 1,000. I like to spread the light out more and try to keep the plants more compact. This way you also don’t have as much canopy to penetrate and you can really grow a greater number of shorter plants. If it were my choice, I’d go with the two 430’s. LOL! We came to the same conclusion in a bit of a different manner.
I actually like the 600 watt light due to the fact that it is more efficient than either the 400 or the 1,000 and gives the best of both worlds for spreading light and giving good penetration.
Obviously 2 600 watters would be a better solution that either the 430's or the 1000 light.
Multiple lights will always cover a given area better than a single light....and possibly save you some electricity dollars"
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
All is indeed well... and since I have the offending party now in my 'ignore' list, I'll stress even less. I'm not overfond of using the 'ignore' feature, but I'll have a go for now as I don't have the time nor inclination to play silly buggers with growbook 'experts.'
Soon as I can jam some buds through this stupid internet connection
I'm not familiar with how the reputation system works on here- is it anonymous, then? Before they got taken down (and that whole trip was dodgy as hell... since when can the US DEA enforce US laws in Canada?!), Overgrow.com used a similar user ratings system (called 'karma' instead of 'reputation') but it wasn't anon. The nickname that did a +/- 'karma' appeared in the recipient's user control panel.
Just checked my 'reputation' - holy guacamole, I got 60 points off of a single +rep (over in my bud dryer thread)! Whoa. Cool.
Too bad some ppl will abuse the ratings systems, which otherwise can give a rather broad indication of how close to right one is getting it in their posts.
Wow, I'm really happy my info is so useful to you! Thanks for the compliments.
One thing that getting down and doing the job for several years does for your own knowledgebase is that it helps you assign levels of significance to the volumes and volumes of good (and bad) grow info out there. A lot of suggested grow op tweaks are seemingly sensible in theory and often supportable by various grow book authors, but meaningless to insignificant in practice.
I fully recognise that I'm both cheap AND lazy. This mental 'filter' is useful to some degree- I have pared down the number of magic sauces and 'common knowledge' I apply in my op, working on establishing real evidence of effectiveness for everything I do. I think I've gotten it down very close to the true bare minimums, reducing cost and effort whereever it is possible.
I've found in particular that magic sauces, even really EXPENSIVE ones, are very rarely worth the dough. I'm down to just nutrient, a phosphorus additive for week 3-4 and H2O2 applied to the tanks every 3-4 days. Soapy water applied to plants every other week through a compressor-driven, common and cheap paint spraygun is as effective against powdery mildew and gnats as most of the magic $auce$ sold for the purposes.
I've not sat down and made a list of all the hints and kinks I've picked up ove the years, but I'll try to jot them down in this thread as they occur to me. Been doing this so long now that most of the things I do in the op are just automatic. I don't really think of everything I've been told over the years that's wrong, ineffective or just plain silly.
Stay tuned, more dope-growing goodness to come, I'm sure.
akidynoken
Active Member
I apprecieate the openess and willingness to share the knowledge of what and what not to do like I've said before experience is the best teacher but it is better to have let someone else figure out the findings through someone elses trials and errors, let their experience be your teacher, that said thanks for keeping it going for so long
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
no problem dood.
My op is most certainly the product of others' experiences. I started out with a drip system using expanded clay pellets- which worked, but had a number of drawbacks, including poor reusability of the pellets as they are hard to clean once used.
I talked to someone on a forum about using rockwool floc in plastic pots in a flood system and gave it a go. Found that the rockwool is a lot easier to handle and dispose of (it is simply melted basalt rock spun out like cotton candy, so can be safely landfilled), is very lightweight but holds many times its weight in water, cheap enough to use new media for every crop, eliminating media-borne root problems- and instantly doubled to tripled my productivity.
"Conventional wisdom" stuff I'm wondering about at this time is the need to heat and aerate tanks when using a flood system with rockwool in pots. My trays are flooded once a day. Fresh oxygen is drawn down into the rootzones as the nutrient solution drains out of the rockwool. Because I dose my tanks with H2O2 every 3-4 days, I'm chemically oxygenating my tanks, as the stuff breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen, some which remains in solution and some which dissipates to atmosphere. Tank temps don't seem to matter because rockwool is a very good thermal insulator. It is warmed slightly by the lights. Flooding the trays doesn't cool down the entire mass of the pot of rockwool and roots, only the bottom 50-75mm or so.
As usual, I'm motivated purely by slack. I've been running without tank heat since the heaters wore out and quit and a couple tanks without aeration since one of the the air pumps broke. Couldn't be bothered to replace them. Hated scrubbing nute crusts off the airstones. Slack, slack, slack.
However, productivity and plant development isn't significantly different between unheated and unaerated tanks in my system. Could be due to the H2O2 and rockwool drainback oxygenation factors, dunno yet.
My op is most certainly the product of others' experiences. I started out with a drip system using expanded clay pellets- which worked, but had a number of drawbacks, including poor reusability of the pellets as they are hard to clean once used.
I talked to someone on a forum about using rockwool floc in plastic pots in a flood system and gave it a go. Found that the rockwool is a lot easier to handle and dispose of (it is simply melted basalt rock spun out like cotton candy, so can be safely landfilled), is very lightweight but holds many times its weight in water, cheap enough to use new media for every crop, eliminating media-borne root problems- and instantly doubled to tripled my productivity.
"Conventional wisdom" stuff I'm wondering about at this time is the need to heat and aerate tanks when using a flood system with rockwool in pots. My trays are flooded once a day. Fresh oxygen is drawn down into the rootzones as the nutrient solution drains out of the rockwool. Because I dose my tanks with H2O2 every 3-4 days, I'm chemically oxygenating my tanks, as the stuff breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen, some which remains in solution and some which dissipates to atmosphere. Tank temps don't seem to matter because rockwool is a very good thermal insulator. It is warmed slightly by the lights. Flooding the trays doesn't cool down the entire mass of the pot of rockwool and roots, only the bottom 50-75mm or so.
As usual, I'm motivated purely by slack. I've been running without tank heat since the heaters wore out and quit and a couple tanks without aeration since one of the the air pumps broke. Couldn't be bothered to replace them. Hated scrubbing nute crusts off the airstones. Slack, slack, slack.
However, productivity and plant development isn't significantly different between unheated and unaerated tanks in my system. Could be due to the H2O2 and rockwool drainback oxygenation factors, dunno yet.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Sure- but I think you missed the sparks- all done.
potroast
Uses the Rollitup profile
G'Day Al,
I'd say that you shouldn't have to heat a res unless it gets below 55F. And aeration is mainly to aid the health of the organisms living in the nute soup, and since you use H2O2, you shouldn't have many living in there. I never aerated when using chemical nutes.
I'd say that you shouldn't have to heat a res unless it gets below 55F. And aeration is mainly to aid the health of the organisms living in the nute soup, and since you use H2O2, you shouldn't have many living in there. I never aerated when using chemical nutes.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Well, thanks for that... I'm feeling a little better about being such a slacker with tank heaters and air pumps... Not much better, but better.
The reason always given to me for aeration was to deliver O2 to the roots. I had always rather thought that the H2O2 every few days was sufficient.
Nothing's slowing down yet, despite months of running without heat & aeration... though I'll probably add some tank heaters when winter rolls around.
The reason always given to me for aeration was to deliver O2 to the roots. I had always rather thought that the H2O2 every few days was sufficient.
Nothing's slowing down yet, despite months of running without heat & aeration... though I'll probably add some tank heaters when winter rolls around.
akidynoken
Active Member
well my babies are just over a week into flower and they are looking great, I reworked some of my ventilation and even got my temps to drop lower than when I had the two 400's in there. Hope all is good with everyones grows, just got off work going to smoke one and go to bed!!!
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
akidynoken, sounds great! If you can't keep temps below about 28C, let's talk about your room and fan placement in a little more detail.
akidynoken
Active Member
no problem with temps any longer i reworked the venting from 4" to 6" man what a difference i'm back to 72 deg, its coming along nicely
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