What led is best value for small grow

[jimjim2609]

Bumping, how close do you run your light to the top of your plants. Are they like cfl's(the closer the better)? I like cfl's but they are very fiddly to get the height right. Also instead of say running a heatsink could you somehow mount a pc fan to it to cool it? Your light gives my hope that LED's are the way to go.

 

[Bumping Spheda]

Well, because of the diode spacing I'd like to give the panel a little room for the different spectrums to mix. To be perfectly honest I don't know how high the light should be. I can get back to you on that, though.



This girl's a few days old. You can see the kink in her neck from when I had both the 20W NW and DIY panel over her and she chose to look at the DIY panel. I've been keeping her under the 20W NW just because it throws less heat and I'm at about 81F right now, but here she is under the DIY panel about 5" away. I'll let you know how she reacts and update if I'm able to move it further away, have to move it closer, etc. Just got the fan on her today, so she's been low stress for a while now which is why I think the stem is as thin as it is. Hopefully the stem with stock up a bit.

Can you use a PC fan to cool it? Yea, I'm sure you could, although I don't know how much good it will do. I'm thinking you could use two baking pans, drill 4 holes somewhere outside of where the heatsink core would be (on both pans, 8 holes total, on the flat portion near the corners perhaps), and bolt the two pans together bottoms facing each other with spacers/washers in between so there's maybe a 1/4" gap between them. Then drill a hole directly in the middle of one of the pans ~80mm in diameter (of course you'd do this before bolting the pans together, but for the sake of explanation), drill mounting holes for the PC fan and bolt the fan or just glue the fan down over the ~80mm hole, hook the fan up to a 12V x 100mA wall wart from Goodwill and watch it blow air into the space between the pans and out the sides. Again, though, this is in all likeliness overkill if you're using 1W chips.

 

[Bumping Spheda]

Chiesel is 1.75" tall today. Don't notice any vertical growth, but the leaves are definitely a little fatter and longer than they were in the picture I posted yesterday. I decided to raise the light a few inches so we're sitting at 7" right now. I'll update tomorrow.

Also, once again, have you considered a CPU cooler spotlight?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-Cree-XPE-Emitter-Aquarium-Tank-Red-Blue-High-Power-Plant-Grow-Light-24-26V-/251205700358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7d06cb06

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-7-LP-CPU-Cooler-Up-to-90W-Support-Intel-775-Low-Profile-/380445561769?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item58945293a9

Similar wattage, smaller foot print. All you'd really need after that is a wall wart from Goodwill or something with the correct specs, an extension cord, and some JB Weld.

 

[jimjim2609]

Chiesel is 1.75" tall today. Don't notice any vertical growth, but the leaves are definitely a little fatter and longer than they were in the picture I posted yesterday. I decided to raise the light a few inches so we're sitting at 7" right now. I'll update tomorrow.

Also, once again, have you considered a CPU cooler spotlight?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-Cree-XPE-Emitter-Aquarium-Tank-Red-Blue-High-Power-Plant-Grow-Light-24-26V-/251205700358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7d06cb06

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-7-LP-CPU-Cooler-Up-to-90W-Support-Intel-775-Low-Profile-/380445561769?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item58945293a9

Similar wattage, smaller foot print. All you'd really need after that is a wall wart from Goodwill or something with the correct specs, an extension cord, and some JB Weld.

Thats one cool cooling fan. The $10 was cheap enough however as per usual they rake you over the coals a couple of times on the delivery. They have a hide charging $65 for postage. It not a bad looking led either.
I have been doing a bit of research this morning and it would appear that the blue leds dont produce the same lux that the red leds do. And i found somewhere that NASA did a couple of different ratios to see which setup was the best. From what i believe they said the the ratio should be more like 3:1 or 4:1 (red:blue).
I have also found out that having the light too close to the plant doesn't allow for the colors to mix properly, which results in poor growth and small sparse plants, but having said that, if the light is to far away from the plant then it will stretch. It does however sound like led's are more forgiving then cfl's. I suppose if the the plant gets to tall you can always just LST or SCROG it.

 

[Bumping Spheda]

Craaap. I forgot again, you're in Australia.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cree-XPE-30W-High-Power-LED-30-Watts-Red-Blue-Mix-Color-Effect-Grow-Light-/160855980571?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics&hash=item2573c37a1b&_uhb=1#ht_795wt_908

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-11-LP-CPU-Cooler-for-Intel-Socket-1156-1155-775-Up-to-/310464051132?pt=AU_Components&hash=item48491977bc&_uhb=1#ht_2464wt_1202

Are those cheaper for you? If not I think you should be able to find similar stuff in your relative area.

Concerning the correct ratio, I figured you'd add some CFL's or something on the side. You could maybe build two spotlights, one Red+Blue, one Cool White, or something. Just some food for thought.

 

[509Zman420]

This LED panel would completely fill out your space 450watt LED

 

[Bumping Spheda]

No offense, it looks like a solid light, but:

My dollar limit is between $50 to $75. I don't want to go to big in wattage simply because of the cost of electricity out here. The power companies are charging $0.25/kwh so even a 150w-250w starts to get a bit pricey.

I think we're looking at a couple ounces per harvest here, although we haven't talked specifically about desired yield.

 

[509Zman420]

Oh sorry I didnt read that... I have a 600w LED 2 90 watt ufos and a 150w cfl and it only added about $20... A ufo would most likely be your best bet... You could get 1 and later get a second... the best way to do it if you want to stick within your dollar limit is to get one off of ebay... dont buy it now but play the auction... I was able to snag my 600w for $450 and they are selling it buy it now for $550... gonna have to dig around to find the best deal for you

 

[jimjim2609]

I think a couple of ounces a harvest would be great. I'm not really interested in a large scale grow just personal. 509Zman420 How close can you run the ufo's to the top of the plant? And how much heat do they put off, ive heard not much but better to ask someone how knows. And finally how loud are the fan's that run on top of the ufo? Thanks for any info

 

[509Zman420]

LED's do not put off much heat, the higher the wattage the hotter the light. But rule of thumb is to keep you LED's about 18in from the top

 

[Bumping Spheda]

How much heat they put off is a relative question, imo. The smaller the room the easier it will be to raise ambient temp by one degree, the more you'll have to ventilate. Many of those UFO's only actually draw 40-50W at the plug. It's hard for me to imagine 40-50W of LED getting out of control in your cabinet, jimjim.

Edit - Lights on in the mother room. Little Chiesel is 2" tall. Obvious leaf growth.


Bumped the light up to 11" just now (still at 7" in the photo). At 11" you could probably fit two more plants under there and sustain them until they're about 6" in height. Anyway, I'll report back in ~24 hours.

 

[jimjim2609]

Here's another question for everybody. Which led's are going to work better?

Option 1:- Colored Led's (red, blue, orange, etc)

or

Option 2:- White Led's (cool white, warm white)

Does anyone know if it really matters. I know the white colors work for cfl's, but then again i haven't really seen colored cfl's. It might work out better/easier to put a bunch of Led flood lights in as they have mounting brackets, so all i have to do is wire up a plug. There are plenty here in Aus with free delivery which is great because if i buy them on a Moday, i should have them i the same week.

These are the one's im talking about. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110982313302?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1492wt_1271 . I'm thinking like 8-10 of these would be alright, perpetual 12/12 from seed grow.

 

[Bumping Spheda]

^^^ Those floodlights should be very good for your intents and purposes, imo. Sounds like a plan if the price is right.

And I'll continue to update 'til you tell me to stop, lol. >< Little Chiesel still 2" tall today, some leaf growth (she's working on her second tier) and the stem has beefed up a little bit which I'm happy about. I guess adding some air to blow on her helped. Keeping the light at 11" since it seems to be working out for now.

 

[jimjim2609]

BS keep posting away, im very interested to see how you go. Has there been better growth since you moved the light further away or is it about the same? I had a bagseed going in rockwool, germed quick but when i looked at it today the root had rotted off the stem. I must have over watered the cube. oh well time to start again

 

[Bumping Spheda]

I haven't noticed much difference at any panel height, tbh. One of the things that this experiment has made me think about is since the plant's leaves are so small right now the closer the panel is less diodes actually even see the plant due to the viewing angle of the chips. So I'm guessing the light that the plant actually saw was relatively unchanged throughout the entire process, it's just gotten a better palette of wavelengths to choose from since the light should be mixed better at a foot than 5". I'll go out on a limb and say 12" is probably pretty close to ideal for this panel.

Check out Chronikool's thread for some info on those little floodlights you're looking at. With the number of units you're thinking about buying and you're given grow space I'll guess you're looking at a similar distance from the canopy (12"), although Chronikool has let his plants actually touch the glass of some of his 50W'ers with no reported ill effects.

Actinic Blue LED's have been known to bleach plants, but I don't believe I've seen/heard of White LED's doing the same. So, to sort of steal your analogy, they're a little like flouros where the plant could actually touch the LED and not be too unhappy about it if at all.

You mentioned Red+Blue vs White. Check out Apache Tech and Area-51 panels. I believe both companies are using a mixture of strictly White + Red. If you made your own panel you could go Cool White : Warm White : 660nm, 1:2:3 (or some ratio to that effect). Even if you went with the floodlights I believe I've seen units with monochromatic 630nm Red LED's in them, so you could supplement with Red either way.

About the root rot, mix a capful of peroxide per gallon of water and make sure the rock wool dries out completely. My Chiesel broke the soil and I've yet to water it since (again, it's working on it's second tier of leaves!). These plants don't need nearly as much water as you might think. Now, cloning, that's another story. They lose water quickly so high humidities and keeping the root zone moist is a must. But seeds? They don't like high humidity and the roots grow faster in a dry climate, ime. Just some food for thought.

 

[jimjim2609]

Ok, ill give that a go when it comes to the seeds. I made up a little dome out of a drink bottle and that created a bit of humidity, that must have been the problem. I'll give it another go without the dome on. I have the bean soaking in a cup of water atm, then into paper towel and finally rockwool. I know it sounds stupid, but i hate growing bagseeds, you just never know what your going to get.

 

[Bumping Spheda]

Haha. You're right about the bag seeds. I was picking through a bag and found a seed in it so I threw it out into the yard since I hadn't started growing at the time. Few months later I found the bugger growing through some decorative rocks underneath a couple short pines, obviously having a hard life. I dug it up and put it under my 1000W HPS. Didn't yield much (few grams), but it was very sticky and actually smelled quite fruity, almost like juicy fruit. Was a good heady smoke; much better than the weed I had gotten the seed from. If I had the plant today I'd probably reveg the thing because the genetics seemed pretty alright. You never know!

 

[PetFlora]

I was going to get 5 floods @ 50w, but the shipping was > $150.

For this grow, I have opted for screw bulbs. I started with a mix of 500K + 3000K, now all 3000K= ~ 44w

So far, so good. Here's a couple recent photos

 

[Chronikool]

Here's another question for everybody. Which led's are going to work better?

Option 1:- Colored Led's (red, blue, orange, etc)

or

Option 2:- White Led's (cool white, warm white)

Does anyone know if it really matters. I know the white colors work for cfl's, but then again i haven't really seen colored cfl's. It might work out better/easier to put a bunch of Led flood lights in as they have mounting brackets, so all i have to do is wire up a plug. There are plenty here in Aus with free delivery which is great because if i buy them on a Moday, i should have them i the same week.

These are the one's im talking about. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110982313302?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1492wt_1271 . I'm thinking like 8-10 of these would be alright, perpetual 12/12 from seed grow.

Would be awesome to have another white floodlight'er on RIU!

Just be prepared to be doing a lot of height adjusting on those 10w's as your plants grow. I myself love tinkering with that sort of thing though.

PM me if you have any questions...i'll try and help.

 

[jimjim2609]

Thanks chronikool, I think the floodlights are going to be best for my grow space. I have plenty of width, i just don't a great deal of height. That's why i wanted to go led, but i think i wouldn't have the height for the colored leds to mix properly, thats were the white led floodlight comes in. Im now thinking about 80w of floodlight, 8 x 10w lights. Im not sure whether to go all warm whites, or run a ratio of like 3:1 warm white:cool white.