Stoney McFried
Well-Known Member
Actually, we needed the extra protein from animals in our diet in order to evolve the brains we so carefully damage today. If we hadnt been omnivorous, things might have turned out differently.
Vegetarian/vegans.......
- Thread starter CleatusJdingo
- Start date
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
homo sapiens sapiens is a omnivorous predatory species by nature like a dog or bear or any animal that hunts meat but will also scavenge and eat plant materials and anything else that is edible. one way to easily spot a meateater is the eyes and ears predators eyes and ears ussualy face forward for tracking and hunting down prey animals think people dogs cats lions groupers eagles etc.... the prey animals in contrast have eyes on the sides of there heads think horse cow goat mice etc.... and there ears and eyes have a greater field of vision and can swivel around for better 360 degree awareness. predators dont have these features as they are unneeded
Picasso345
Well-Known Member
Humans are much more like a scavenger such as a buzzard or hyena. The meat humans eat is dead for days/weeks/years. And cooked. Even forgetting that meat can't be eaten raw in America on account of the feces all over it, even if you slaughter your own raised animal-nobody is eating bloody raw meat. We are processing and cooking it to the point it's almost unrecognizable.homo sapiens sapiens is a omnivorous predatory species by nature like a dog or bear or any animal that hunts meat but will also scavenge and eat plant materials and anything else that is edible. one way to easily spot a meateater is the eyes and ears predators eyes and ears ussualy face forward for tracking and hunting down prey animals think people dogs cats lions groupers eagles etc.... the prey animals in contrast have eyes on the sides of there heads think horse cow goat mice etc.... and there ears and eyes have a greater field of vision and can swivel around for better 360 degree awareness. predators dont have these features as they are unneeded
AlphaNoN
Well-Known Member
Would you eat meat if no animals had to be slaughtered to provide it and it was maintained in a sterile lab environment?
Check this shit out, guilt free meat: Lab-Grown Meat a Reality, But Who Will Eat It? : NPR
Check this shit out, guilt free meat: Lab-Grown Meat a Reality, But Who Will Eat It? : NPR
SimpleSimon
Well-Known Member
i am not against the slaughter of animals.....well whale hunting isn't cool...or monkeys. They are too smart.
In canada there are small farmers who do ethical killing. The government is trying to stop it and have all animals....processed. In LARGE certified houses.
I became a vegetarian for the planet. There are too many people. Some of us need to eat less meat. So i switched. It takes 19 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat. I also heard on CBC the other day that switching from a meat eater to Veg, has the same carbon impact of trading in your Hummer for a toyota Prius.
I believe that we should eat meat. But there are too many of us. And what the meat industry has turned into isn't ethical anymore. We used to have a relationship with our food. If you look at a cook book from the 50's it will show a cow, with dotted lines dividing up the sections. If you look at a cook book now, it has the meat cut, quartered and packaged. We have lost our connection. And its not health.
JMO (My GF is not a veg, so i cook her chicken from time to time, and i give my cat tuna)
OH! P.S. With the state of the oceans. Better to eat chicken then fish.
In canada there are small farmers who do ethical killing. The government is trying to stop it and have all animals....processed. In LARGE certified houses.
I became a vegetarian for the planet. There are too many people. Some of us need to eat less meat. So i switched. It takes 19 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat. I also heard on CBC the other day that switching from a meat eater to Veg, has the same carbon impact of trading in your Hummer for a toyota Prius.
I believe that we should eat meat. But there are too many of us. And what the meat industry has turned into isn't ethical anymore. We used to have a relationship with our food. If you look at a cook book from the 50's it will show a cow, with dotted lines dividing up the sections. If you look at a cook book now, it has the meat cut, quartered and packaged. We have lost our connection. And its not health.
JMO (My GF is not a veg, so i cook her chicken from time to time, and i give my cat tuna)
OH! P.S. With the state of the oceans. Better to eat chicken then fish.
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
i agree with simple simon about the meat issue it is very costly and wastefull to produce meat for the current population. as far as humans are concerned we are the most highly effective predator this planet has yet seen and we are highhly adaptable killers. we have hunted and ate all known large mammals for thousands of years from elephants to whales the weapons and marks on bones from arrow and spear strikes are evident as far back as recorded history goes we are clever and also scavenge and farm but to say humans are not extreamly effective hunters is a stretch i think. it is believed that a number of the large mammals and some predators were hunted or outcompeted by early humans all the way to extinction in north america like ground sloths/saber tothed tigers etc... you can eat raw meat if you want we have been cooking for thousands of years because things are better that way and easier to consume and digest plants also. we use to eat things raw the appendix once helped with this and we produced stronger digestive enzymes thousands of years ago these traits are slowly going away because they are no longer needed. as an example dogs can bury raw meat and eat it weeks later without problems early humans also had this ability
growingmom
Well-Known Member
Ok..I got a story for ya'all..give me some input and opinions...(no bashing.I really don't care what anyone else eats.) So I have a neighbor, her daughter is vegan and she has a little girl that is 7, we all got together one day haveing a cook out, they brought thier veggie burgers, cooked on a different grill etc. The problem I have is this 7 yr. old. She said: I don't like this, I don't wanna eat it. (refering to the veggie burger) Her mother say's..too bad thats what your haveing. this little girl wanted a burger..a MEAT burger, and they basicly told her NO..your eating the veggie burger, she went without food because she refused to eat it. I felt sooo bad for her, and I was a little bit pissed off about the whole thing, I soo wanted to slap this chick, because I just thought it was wrong, I mean she choose's to eat that way, but why force your child to if she dosen't wanna. She's 7.......let her eat what she wants. When she's old enough to decide if she wants to be vegan then let her decide.
SimpleSimon
Well-Known Member
I listened to nutritionist about feeding kids on Vegan diet. And you CAN do it. But they need so much more then we do, due to their developing bodies. I think i will be feeding my kids on a meat restricted diet, but not meat vacant.
However, about your friend. Isn't the whole point to having kids, to instill your values in them? i mean. I am not saying i agree but i can see where they are coming from. Maybe their approach was wrong. But if your AGAINST meat eating, i can see how you would want to pass that on.
However, about your friend. Isn't the whole point to having kids, to instill your values in them? i mean. I am not saying i agree but i can see where they are coming from. Maybe their approach was wrong. But if your AGAINST meat eating, i can see how you would want to pass that on.
Picasso345
Well-Known Member
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
i dont have kids so i dont know it seems negligent to me the worst i have seen is trying to put dogs and cats on vegan diets this is particularly bad for cats i see it as animal abuse they are pure predators(cats in particular) and there health will suffer as a result. i dont care what people do for the most part with there bodies but some take it a step too far i think. at that age dietary protein is key look at average height beetween n.koreans and s.koreans same genes also the chinese and indians height in america compared to in there native lands. this has to do with animal protein availability. mostly sedentary people could survive as vegans just fine i suppose muscle tissue and hormone levels would suffer as a result maybe you would live longer i would rather be fit strong and die 5 years early and have good quality of life up until then but then again look at all the centarians (i think thats the word for people who lived past a hundred).i have read about them and many of there various lifestyles are totally random in diet activity etc... there seems to be no particular diet or lifestyle which throughly outdoes another. so i think you have to find what works for you as an individual. athletes and growing children need a daily supply of a truelly complete protein for proper function and growth in my educated oppinion
AlphaNoN
Well-Known Member
lol that reminds me of a futurama episode..
Farnsworth: "Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in... get the hell off my property!"
Free Waterfall Junior: "You can't own property, man."
Farnsworth: "I can. But that's because I'm not a penniless hippie."
Leela: "What do you people want?"
Free Waterfall Junior: "We're with mankind for ethical animal treatment. Popplers are living creatures. You got to stop harvesting them for food."
Bender: "Or what?"
Free Waterfall Junior: "Or we'll boycott Fishy Joe's."
Leela: "You're vegetarians. Who cares what you do?"
Free Waterfall Junior: "Shut up!"
Leela: "Animals eat other animals. It's nature."
Free Waterfall Junior: "No it isn't. We taught a lion to eat tofu."
Lion: *cough* *pause* *cough*
(download 274kb)
Picasso345
Well-Known Member
You are wrong. 100% wrong. There are Vegetarian athletes on many levels. From the USDA, about as biased a organization towards promoting animal products that there is:
Vegetarian diets can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.
MyPyramid.gov - United States Department of Agriculture - Home
Vegetarian diets can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.
MyPyramid.gov - United States Department of Agriculture - Home
i dont have kids so i dont know it seems negligent to me the worst i have seen is trying to put dogs and cats on vegan diets this is particularly bad for cats i see it as animal abuse they are pure predators(cats in particular) and there health will suffer as a result. i dont care what people do for the most part with there bodies but some take it a step too far i think. at that age dietary protein is key look at average height beetween n.koreans and s.koreans same genes also the chinese and indians height in america compared to in there native lands. this has to do with animal protein availability. mostly sedentary people could survive as vegans just fine i suppose muscle tissue and hormone levels would suffer as a result maybe you would live longer i would rather be fit strong and die 5 years early and have good quality of life up until then but then again look at all the centarians (i think thats the word for people who lived past a hundred).i have read about them and many of there various lifestyles are totally random in diet activity etc... there seems to be no particular diet or lifestyle which throughly outdoes another. so i think you have to find what works for you as an individual. athletes and growing children need a daily supply of a truelly complete protein for proper function and growth in my educated oppinion
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
even with soy or combining rice and beans to create a complete protein the array of amino acids is sourly lacking compared to any animal source of protein. also the number of calories that need to be eaten of these vegetable proteins to meet the right number of grams per day for growing children or athletes is imposible to meet. yes there are vegan athletes 1 was on a team of mine he had problems keeping muscle weight on and was ill often we all ride 200 to 300 miles a week and his dietary choices caused problems for him.these athletes are selling there possible performances short by eating in this way as strength or endurance athletes. i have spent thousands of hours studying diet and nutrition for over 10 years and i have to disagree with you on athlete needs in particular when strength or endurance is involved
Picasso345
Well-Known Member
Is the USDA lying just to promote Vegetarianism?
If you are going to ignore the facts and come to an opinion based solely on your research there is apparently nothing anyone can say to change your mind.
Here is a long distance vegetarian biker to explain away as well. Journey of Discovery - Vegetarian Cross-country Bicycle Bike Tour Across America
If you are going to ignore the facts and come to an opinion based solely on your research there is apparently nothing anyone can say to change your mind.
Here is a long distance vegetarian biker to explain away as well. Journey of Discovery - Vegetarian Cross-country Bicycle Bike Tour Across America
even with soy or combining rice and beans to create a complete protein the array of amino acids is sourly lacking compared to any animal source of protein. also the number of calories that need to be eaten of these vegetable proteins to meet the right number of grams per day for growing children or athletes is imposible to meet. yes there are vegan athletes 1 was on a team of mine he had problems keeping muscle weight on and was ill often we all ride 200 to 300 miles a week and his dietary choices caused problems for him.these athletes are selling there possible performances short by eating in this way as strength or endurance athletes. i have spent thousands of hours studying diet and nutrition for over 10 years and i have to disagree with you on athlete needs in particular when strength or endurance is involved
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
yes true i do my own reasearch and test on my own organism (me) and these are my thoughts and conclusions as applied to my own body. as an athlete. i stopped eating red meat for six months and got quite anemic and unwell lost muscle mass and had lower male hormone levels and had chronic fatigue my body b-blood type needs high quality animal protein to function as an athlete and my mental state also suffers when this is excluded from my diet this is what i know for me. to each his own. testosterone production is amplified by saturated fat and cholesterol intake from diet you will never see a vegan body builder at the highest level) different bodies respond differently i have read hundreds of studies from all sides. as far as the usda is concerned i do not advocate or endorse there studies same as i do not support pharmacutical companies there studies are biased the current food pyramid is hilarious if you have even a vague understanding of nutrition. i dont know why you think i endorse or care what big bussines says i dont. i do not plagerize and all my thoughts and oppinions are my own through testing and studying on my self and my family. i take this subject very serious and have been studying this for a long time because it is my life and well being. i have not said anyone is absolutely wrong whether i think they are or not so i would appreciate the same in return i am not an unintelligent person and assume you also are not. the truth is somwhere in the middle but please dont say im absolutely wrong that is un-needed
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
vegetarians can eat complete proteins from animals if you read my posts in detail you will see i said nothing about vegetarian athletes only vegans there is no need for animosity because you disagree but please dont miss qoute me
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
i will leave it at this in my oppinion the best diets for most humans involves whole fruits and vegetables whole unprocessed grains and free range organically fed animals that are healthy and active this is the proper diet for our species regarding are needs genetically as a predatory oppurtunistic organism. if a person chooses to be vegan it is for the sake of not killing animals there is no health benefit going past being vegetarian im sorry but this is simple fact. i will try not to respond anymore on this subject peace
Picasso345
Well-Known Member
Again you are 100% wrong. It isn't that I disagree with you, but that the entire nutritional world says you are wrong. Seriously, your thinking is very outdated. It sounds like you are relying on information from the 60's and 70's. The ADA also says you are wrong. Even the damn Canadians say you are wrong:
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Approximately 2.5% of adults in the United States and 4% of adults in Canada follow vegetarian diets. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat, fish or fowl. Interest in vegetarianism appears to be increasing, with many restaurants and college foodservices offering vegetarian meals routinely. Substantial growth in sales of foods attractive to vegetarians has occurred, and these foods appear in many supermarkets. This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Although a number of federally funded and institutional feeding programs can accommodate vegetarians, few have foods suitable for vegans at this time. Because of the variability of dietary practices among vegetarians, individual assessment of dietary intakes of vegetarians is required. Dietetics professionals have a responsibility to support and encourage those who express an interest in consuming a vegetarian diet. They can play key roles in educating vegetarian clients about food sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and any dietary modifications that may be necessary to meet individual needs. Menu planning for vegetarians can be simplified by use of a food guide that specifies food groups and serving sizes.
Vegetarian Diets
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Approximately 2.5% of adults in the United States and 4% of adults in Canada follow vegetarian diets. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat, fish or fowl. Interest in vegetarianism appears to be increasing, with many restaurants and college foodservices offering vegetarian meals routinely. Substantial growth in sales of foods attractive to vegetarians has occurred, and these foods appear in many supermarkets. This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Although a number of federally funded and institutional feeding programs can accommodate vegetarians, few have foods suitable for vegans at this time. Because of the variability of dietary practices among vegetarians, individual assessment of dietary intakes of vegetarians is required. Dietetics professionals have a responsibility to support and encourage those who express an interest in consuming a vegetarian diet. They can play key roles in educating vegetarian clients about food sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and any dietary modifications that may be necessary to meet individual needs. Menu planning for vegetarians can be simplified by use of a food guide that specifies food groups and serving sizes.
Vegetarian Diets
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Excellent response Picasso345.
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
i will again say you are missquoting me clearly you are not even reading what i have wrote i said early in my posts that being a vegetarian can be perfectly healthy because milk and eggs are involved which are complete animal proteins. simply put being vegan is a bad choice for human health this is simple fact if you understand nutrition. if you dont want to kill animals i respect that but being vegan is a poor health choice there are no benefits going past being vegetarian. you can throw studies at me all day long i have been reading and studying this for years. i at least speak in my own words and can explain myself through my own thoughts. if you think im arguing about being vegetaian your wrong like i have said a number of times vegetarian diets can be complete. a vegan diet cannot be im sorry if this is upsetting to you no need for animosity man