Soil Food Web Gardening with Compost Teas

Rrog

Well-Known Member
What they are saying is refuting much of Ingham's assertions. Disease suppression was one of the bullet points you tossed out there. That's been proven wrong, other than the disease suppression from the worm castings itself. Making a tea did squat for disease, yet she still professes these miracles and you kindly spread it.

Again- no harm in ACT at all.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Apples Apple scab No Michigan State University


Wine grapes Phomopsis No Cornell University
Downy mildew No
Black rot No
Potato leafhopper No
European red mite No
Wine grapes Powdery mildew Some Penn State
(greenhouse) Botrytis Some
Wine grapes Powdery mildew No Penn State
(field)

Turf grass Brown patch No Rutgers University

(An additional focus of published compost tea resear
ch is the discovery of human pathogens, such as
E.
coli
, in some ACTs. Though discussion of the topi
c is beyond the scope of this column, fecal
contamination of compost teas is a health issue of
serious concern to the EPA and other agencies.)

This represents the current state of university sci
ence behind the efficacy of aerated compost tea in
disease control. Will these results be published in th
e peer-reviewed scientific literature? One hopes so,
but the reality is that many scientists don’t publish “n
egative” results and instead move on to other more
promising areas of research. This is unfortunate
as the science behind compost tea is very young and
requires, as all researchers agree, substantial research
before the hypothesis of disease control can be
supported.

What do compost tea producers say about these negative r
esults? Often, there is criticism of tea microbial
content, the tea brewing process, the applicati
on process, weather conditions, other environmental
stresses, etc. – in other words, the fault is not w
ith the product. However, the overwhelming lack of
positive results in university ACT studies suggests that th
e hypothesis might be in error and need to be
revised. And even if the criticisms were justified,
then how realistic can such a technology be for the
typical home- or business owner who wants to make and apply their own compost tea?

This is the real problem I see in the world of com
post tea, which is the selling of a product whose use is
based on faith rather than science. As one proponent
states, “There is no doubt in my mind that compost
tea has already proven to be beneficial to agriculture.” Individuals with this mind-set are not open to
having their beliefs challenged by scientists or anyone
else. However, buying expensive “tea brewers”,
purchasing ready made “tea” at several dollars a ga
llon, or paying a company to apply ACT in the
absence of objective data sounds like
snake oil rather than science.


There are thousands of web sites with glowing anecdot
al praise for compost tea used as a foliar spray.
What seems to be missing are stories from the other side – from those business and home owners who
haven’t seen differences in disease control or have even
noted increased incidence and severity of disease.
In the interest of a fair and balanced discussion,
I am developing a web page for reporting these anecdotes
as they are submitted to me. Feel free to send them in – you can remain anonymous if you wish.

There is no scientific evidence for ACT di
sease control on turf or landscape materials
. Since ACT is not
registered by the EPA as a pesticide, it is illegal to
recommend its use as one, or to apply it as such to
another person’s landscape. Though some commercial s
ites disclose this regulatory fact, they also coyly
include anecdotal information extolling the disease-suppressing properties of their product. Laundering
product information to get around federal pesticide re
gulations is unethical. Misrepresentation of the
science behind compost tea represents, at best, landscape
management decisions based on faith rather than
science. At worst, it suggests corporate profits at
the expense of well-meaning but gullible consumers.



This bit....Disease suppression is irrelevant.
No one here is pouring up AACTs for disease suppression.
There's Neem amongst other things for that.

I only posted everything to keep the text whole.
Trying not to be subjective and give only parts that support what I'm saying.
But that's really irrelvant.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
And this closing statment


The Bottom Line


•

Aerated compost tea use for disease control c
ontinues to lack scientific credentials
•

There is no documented science supporting th
e use of ACT on turf and landscape materials
•

ACT is not registered as a pesticide and cannot
legally be recommended or applied as one
•

ACTs have been demonstrated to
harbor human pathogens, including
E. coli

•

There is a rapidly growing, compost tea industry that continues to downplay the lack of reputable
science behind the product
•

Uses of products or processes for landscape mana
gement should be based on objective plant and
soil science, not blind faith or commercial gain

They say there no scientific evidence because it hasn't been studied on turf and landscape materials...

Bro that's propaganda.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Bottom line- ACT has been reviewed for commercial farming value, where it was determined it has none. In other words, educated business people (farmers) have found no data to justify using ACT. So you have stoners using it and a couple of pumpkin growers. That says it all right there.

On the other hand, you'll find commercial growers that all find value in compost, amendments, etc. Adding compost to a bubbler doesn't change the compost, so it's looked at as redundant.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
"Bottom line- ACT has been reviewed for commercial farming value, where it was determined it has none. In other words, educated business people (farmers) have found no data to justify using ACT. So you have stoners using it and a couple of pumpkin growers. That says it all right there."
Bottom line - ACT has been reviewed. It's all just one BIG PONZI SCHEME! THEY DO NOT WORK!
It's history...Put it in your pipe and smoke it.
Science has already proven them futile in however many studies it took the prove that, so ppl just gave up working towards any kind of progress and wrote them off as the "myths" they were...
They OBVIOUSLY don't do a thing for our plants, but for some reason, ppl continue to use them believing that they're actually doing something...Hmmm...They all ignorant. Oh well.


^^^That's how you sound me...But that's alright by me. Do your thing brother.

On the other hand, you'll find commercial growers that all find value in compost, amendments, etc. Adding compost to a bubbler doesn't change the compost, so it's looked at as redundant.

^^^^...........<sighs>.

Commercial grower this...Commercial grower that...I'm not commercial growing.
You obviously are set in your ways which is cool. Do you bossman.

I've put a compost in a bubbler and watched what happens over the 18-24hr period, and hey, I'll just say I disagree as I've got literature from which I've learned otherwise. Redundant is a redundant word to use atm as well...
Like I said, I've got literature suggesting otherwise and am willing to help and share with anyone wondering.

BUT..... I did start brewing yesterday @ 6, so it's about time for me to go pour up lol!
I'll be back with the rest of the manual too!


Stay tuned :peace:




 

sullivan666

Active Member
I started out using ACT's but have since lessened them significantly. Currently, I'm top dressing and using herbal/enzyme teas and am having great results.

More importantly though, I recommend anyone who is serious about organic farming read this book: http://www.onestrawrevolution.net/One_Straw_Revolution/One-Straw_Revolution.html

Fukuoka grew primarily rice and citrus trees, but also many different vegetables/herbs using a "do-nothing" natural farming method. This does not involve any ACT regimen or even enzyme/herbal tea regimen. He simply used cover crops (green manure) and and seeded at specific times and over time was able to produce yields equivalent or greater than those using commercial methods with chemical fertilizers and expensive equipment.

Thanks to Headtreep for the suggestion, this may be one of my all time favorites.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I'd sure hate to see a starting grower feel he needs a brewer and spends his limited budget on such a brewer because he read how excited you were. That's what bothers me. Here's a guy trying to grow something that's evolved for hundreds of millions of years... but now he feels he needs to spend limited funds on an ACT brewer. That would be tragic in my mind. There are dozens of other things I'd recommend he spend his limited cash on.

So we're clear, I realize you are not growing anything commercially. What I'm saying is that when potentially beneficial, viable techniques or amendments surface, the commercial growers look to see if it can benefit them. There is no benefit for commercial growers, so that in and of itself should be a clue as to its effectiveness with MJ. It's not discussed at large agricultural trade conferences, not discussed in trade rags like Acres, nothing. If ACT is so great, why is no one using it commercially? Commercial growers use and find great value in the the rest of the products we all use.
 

kushking42

Well-Known Member
very well said Rrog. a diverse decaying pile of leaves for mulch. and some quality compost sure is cheaper than a brewer.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
One Straw Revolution is a big deal. Fukoka would not buy a brewer. He's lazy like me. Maybe I'm lazier, even. Anywho- my VermiCompost bags are killin' it!
 

Sincerely420

New Member
I'd sure hate to see a starting grower feel he needs a brewer and spends his limited budget on such a brewer because he read how excited you were. That's what bothers me. Here's a guy trying to grow something that's evolved for hundreds of millions of years... but now he feels he needs to spend limited funds on an ACT brewer. That would be tragic in my mind. There are dozens of other things I'd recommend he spend his limited cash on.

So we're clear, I realize you are not growing anything commercially. What I'm saying is that when potentially beneficial, viable techniques or amendments surface, the commercial growers look to see if it can benefit them. There is no benefit for commercial growers, so that in and of itself should be a clue as to its effectiveness with MJ. It's not discussed at large agricultural trade conferences, not discussed in trade rags like Acres, nothing. If ACT is so great, why is no one using it commercially? Commercial growers use and find great value in the the rest of the products we all use.


"I'd sure hate to see a starting grower feel he needs a brewer and spends his limited budget on such a brewer because he read how excited you were. That's what bothers me. Here's a guy trying to grow something that's evolved for hundreds of millions of years... but now he feels he needs to spend limited funds on an ACT brewer. That would be tragic in my mind. There are dozens of other things I'd recommend he spend his limited cash on."

-I'm 99% sure there's no one brewing in one of those high dollar brewers here on RIU.
Not once have I suggested someone buying a brewer bro...Nor has anyone on this thread man..Buying a brewer?? WHAT?! No...
Buying an air pump and some air stones sure. Buying things you don't need?? NO. Using what you have, sure.
Bigotry, NO. Sharing knowledge, sure.

"So we're clear, I realize you are not growing anything commercially. What I'm saying is that when potentially beneficial, viable techniques or amendments surface, the commercial growers look to see if it can benefit them. There is no benefit for commercial growers, so that in and of itself should be a clue as to its effectiveness with MJ. It's not discussed at large agricultural trade conferences, not discussed in trade rags like Acres, nothing. If ACT is so great, why is no one using it commercially? Commercial growers use and find great value in the the rest of the products we all use."

Glad your clear! Just wanted to make sure you were. Seems like you keep getting confused...
What's discussed and what's not discussed isn't for you to determine brother! Not even..
What you hear, what you learn, your opinion...That's on you bro.
Just like what you don't hear, what you don't learn, and still, your opinion....That's on you bro.

You're not speaking on behalf of all commercial growers or all whoever you think you are...
Maybe a couple ppl following your methods yeah or who learn from what you've taught them yeah, but not NEARLY are you speaking on behalf of masses.

You're speaking on the behalf of yourself and maybe a few of your "friends".
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I'm simply observing that Weedies use ACT, and other growing populations don't. Seems painfully obvious. No seminars, no clinics, no presentations, no handouts, no class teachings, not a thing, except in Weedville. I'm not so stuck on something that I can't see this.

If it was so good farmers would use it. You would agree with that, right? If ACT really boosted... anything... why wouldn't a farmer use it? If it's so good, why is it the best kept secret in the horticultural world?
 

Sincerely420

New Member
From my POV. You're stuck on something..The video that bro posted a little bit earlier wasn't in regards to weed....It was in regards to produce.
There are no "No seminars, no clinics, no presentations, no handouts, no class teachings, " because you're not looking.

It's not the best kept secret and farmers do use it..I'm confused why you keep saying that over and over!
You obviously just don't.

But lets just call it quits man! Make another thread as to why you shouldn't use AACT's and I won't say a thing on it!
The title of this one just doesn't suit you :peace:
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
S420- The title of this thread is irrelevant. What I said is factual. I'm closer linked to the formal horticulture market than you might think. When I say that the global hort / ag trade shows have never ever had even a presentation on ACT, I know of what I speak.

I say this over and over because it's true. People like you get upset at the prospect that no one outside of weedville uses ACT, but to date NO ONE has ever come back and said... "uhhh... strawberry farmers love ACT- Peach growers love it, lettuce farmers..." Nothin. No article in Acres (etc) magazine, nada. Sure you see a little guy with a 500 lb pumpkin selling microbes ( :roll: ) but aside from that rare businessman, a farmer who reviews data and cost isn't inclined to run his compost through a spin cycle. He just adds the compost and does other necessary work.

ACT is a faster road, but the same road
 

Sincerely420

New Member
The title of this thread is NOT irrelevant & that makes no sense...
And you being closer to a market explains the prejudice...

And I'm not upset bro. Just read my text, not in between the lines.
Just stop lol.


"Sure you see a little guy with a 500 lb pumpkin selling microbes (
) but aside from that rare businessman, a farmer who reviews data and cost isn't inclined to run his compost through a spin cycle. He just adds the compost and does other necessary work."

That same little guy selling the "500lb pumpkin" isn't trying to sell anyone an AACT brewer is either.
He's just sharing his result. The "500lb pumpkin" that he grew with the application of the AACT.

And you have tyeaming with microbes linked in your sig....
Some of things you've said in the last few posts, contradict that literature.

And if you agree that and AACT is a faster road, but the same road, why the last 20 posts?
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Unless you're starting a new soil, or have serious problems there's just no need for speed. Is ACT OK? Sure! Is it fun? Maybe! Is it necessary? Absolutely not, but since you love it and have developed a comfortable growing regimen around ACT, then I wholeheartedly think you should continue. But when you step out of fact-land and state that something is better, I will be there.

Anyway, there is a whole world beyond ACT to discuss.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Oh Yeah...keep waiting for that moment boss.

Is ACT OK? Sure! Is it fun? Maybe! Is it necessary?

You're asking the wrong questions...
But is faster better??

[video=youtube;H3R-rtWPyJY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3R-rtWPyJY[/video]

Maybe grandma needs some AACT :joint:
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Be kind and be factual. And in the meantime if you or anyone else find some segments of the ag / hort industry outside of weedville using ACT, it would be useful.

As a separate topic- In my opinion watering your plants with RO is great. Any thoughts on that?
 
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