Section 8 protection

[GregS]

It is no secret that we are, for the very most part, section 8.

erm, wrong section 8.

Start again.

The Affirmative Defense, found in Section 8 of the state Medical Marijuana Act, offers protection, not from arrest and due process, but from conviction, for a boatload of activities prohibited by Section 4, which requires compliance with the state registry and attendant rules. The folks at 3ma don't want us to talk about it there, and have clearly said that we can't be trusted with that information. I have yet to see a comprehensive discussion of those issues. Especially with the decision in McQueen, I think the time is right.

It is only a short, one page read, and is very simple.

=======================================================================

8. Affirmative Defense and Dismissal for Medical Marihuana.

Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7(b), a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:

(1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

(2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marihuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition; and

(3) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were engaged in the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marihuana or paraphernalia relating to the use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition.
(b) A person may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana in a motion to dismiss, and the charges shall be dismissed following an evidentiary hearing where the person shows the elements listed in subsection (a).
(c) If a patient or a patient's primary caregiver demonstrates the patient's medical purpose for using marihuana pursuant to this section, the patient and the patient's primary caregiver shall not be subject to the following for the patient's medical use of marihuana:

(1) disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau; or

(2) forfeiture of any interest in or right to property.
=======================================================================




Note that there are far fewer restrictions than come with registry. There is no requirement that parties be registered. Caregivers are not limited to five patients. Patients are not limited to one caregiver. A five pound batch of cookies is not prohibited. There are many other things the AD protects.

What is important is that courtroom rules of evidence require firm proof that the three prongs of the defense are met. For that reason, it is not for some people to try on their own, due to prosecutorial twists and turns, a judge's attitude, and the notion that the required evidence may not be met. In some instances, defendants can expect to be pushed face down in the gravel. They will be booked, arraigned, and very likely suffer civil asset forfeiture. 3ma does not permit the topic because it is regarded that we will trip over the truth and hurt ourselves.

Has this topic been discussed to the nth degree?

 

[Dr. Bob]

I am sure the 3ma shut you down because the arguments you are making are absurd and will get people arrested. The serious errors in reasoning you were using were pointed out to you by those who know far more about the law (ie lawyers) than you do. You continued to promote getting patients arrested for doing some really stupid things, like thinking weight limits, caregiver relationships, transporting marijuana, etc were not laws but suggestions to be ignored on a routine basis.

I guess you are going to try RIU. Let's see if you can get some believers here.

Dr. Bob

 

[ProfessorPotSnob]

Here comes the bullshit broom , time to sweep this one up ! Most here are compliant with the Act and all Rules and Regulations as the time to interpret the law on an individual basis is long gone ..

So your saying I can grow all I want with the Docs cert and offer it to whomever I choose ? Wow that sounds like the black market dealer who holds a wild card at the table . I guess in the end I am not one to throw all my chips down as I like to eat in private and at home verses the luxury of a Cell Diner !

Thanks for the thread as I know its going to be a real fun one , just wait and see !

 

[Dr. Bob]

Professor, you just reaffirmed my faith in RIU. I figured the usual jokers would come over and eat up what they wanted to hear. No limits, do what you want, section 8 will protect you despite yourself. Courts and laws mean nothing..... I figured they would be lined up by now.

Dr. Bob

 

[ProfessorPotSnob]

Professor, you just reaffirmed my faith in RIU. I figured the usual jokers would come over and eat up what they wanted to hear. No limits, do what you want, section 8 will protect you despite yourself. Courts and laws mean nothing..... I figured they would be lined up by now.

Dr. Bob

Thanks Dr. Bob , it is a wild place as you know . I do believe most of the jokers are swimming somewhere downstate at this time haha .

 

[gladstoned]

 

[DaleRoberts]

We all know the basics here. LEO and DA's don't care what the other interpretations are. They don't care if you are 100% within the law as it is. They are going to bust you more than they will not bust you.

Then the object of the game becomes this....Can you afford to pay the $ it takes to fight them all the way? Or will you run out of $ before that time comes? Usually we run out of $ and take a plea. That results in a bad situation if you are dealing with big quantities of meds.

If you are a patient who grows a little smoke...you are good to go mostly. If you decide to run 72 plants at a time you can expect your life to get smashed to bits at some point.

Can you get away with it entirely?....sure you can. Most times though some snitch fucker tells on you. This is because people don't know how to keep their mouth shut. Eventually you will get raided and ass raped by the cops. Or maybe you won't.

I say fly under the radar and enjoy your smoke. Help only people who you can trust and keep the flashy stuff out of the picture and most likely you'll never get popped. If you did it would be a small amount that would be dropped. Prosecutors aren't going to let a guy with over a LB just walk without a fight. Mark my words.

Make sure you have a good lawyer retained. Or you might not have any $ after they rob you for all of your assets. Cuz they will rob your ass blind when they come with that warrant in hand.

I hope you're ready. I know I am but I'm small time....a waste of their time. Plus I have a lawyer.

 

[DaleRoberts]

Professor, you just reaffirmed my faith in RIU. I figured the usual jokers would come over and eat up what they wanted to hear. No limits, do what you want, section 8 will protect you despite yourself. Courts and laws mean nothing..... I figured they would be lined up by now.

Dr. Bob

Im glad you share your thoughts Dr Bob. This site was kind of taking a dump on us for a while. There are however alot of good people on RIU.

Recently there's been some trolls though.

Whos the mod here now? I'm not ever sure anymore.

 

[ProfessorPotSnob]

I fear what will happen to the Commercial growers in due time , they are plugging and playing in large volumes and in the end as stated by Dale it will most likely catch up to you sooner or later . When the beast wants your flesh your at its mercy , if there is any at all and the more flesh you have the more the beast will want .

I have been a caregiver since the beginning and have never needed more than a 12x12 room to do what I do legally . Shit there is some room to even walk in and have a seat . Now those with Pole barns and basements full will have one hell of a job explaining the volume . I do not blame those that grow commercial scale as this state is not the best so to say for employment and one must eat and feed there clan .

Now lets talk about the reality of our most current issue at hand and this is distribution known as P2P . Michigan's Supreme Court put a halt on that back in Febuary on one cold day Now its worse than the wildwest in a sense and the shit has yet to hit the fan in my opinion ..

Its going to get much worse before it gets any better , get ready for the next round of artillery as our opposition is finding ammo and there allies are strong ..

 

[buckaroo bonzai]

Professor, you just reaffirmed my faith in RIU. I figured the usual jokers would come over and eat up what they wanted to hear. No limits, do what you want, section 8 will protect you despite yourself. Courts and laws mean nothing..... I figured they would be lined up by now.

Dr. Bob

STICKY THIS PLEASE--?

--this could be a very important thread for greenhouse growers this summer--

we're not All in here ALL the time dr b-

can you meet us in the circle of 'civil' discourse??

peacefully? smoke the pipe w us- relax


or is your objective more?

there's clearly parameters limits and rules to be compliant and ""legal"" w sec8-

but there is room for discussion

the last bit of room IMO
...that we have left to expand our rights and the ability to care for loved ones and ourselves legally and compliantly

but I do believe that gregs is opening a subject many of us have wanted to discuss
openly without censor for a variety of reasons....(mayb he's not the guy I thought he was...??)

i say sticky this one!

.I too believe the mmma will not allow open discourse of certain subjects-
they re lawyers designing the law there...and stakeholders (u?)

if an 800lb go-rilla wants to open this up I see a long and lively debate here
mayb that's what it takes....?

-and who the fuck is talking about this on the web??

or who cares that much as they are getting stoned and growing their meds-
only when it affects them will folks become concerned

u hav an op based on ur profession dr B-
many of s feel u r pushing the status quo of the designed box

if we are not to try and expand our rights then how are we to keep them?
they are only getting less and less

if you are taking the op side for debate and safety of us all then I say bring it
but if you are trying to get us to swallow the 'red' pill forget it we will spit it back on you

we don't all 'hate' you but many of us have stories of you and people

u can earn respect here ...but not combative ly or with threatening.
...fuk the names
...bloody might even want to read for a minute before he decides to bring that...others too-

do not tread there for civil reasons ....

u need to consider our side if you are truly a dr of mmj patients???

i have always wondered why you haven't taken the dr Courtney approach and model and ran with that to help us here....?

but I am continually running forensics on you....trying to understand what you are about....I will leave it @that

u seem to be counterproductive to our ability as pt CG to allow ourself to explore the full potential of the medicine

some of the dr here in mich ""need""to be writing recommendations for more than the 'prescribed' amount
there are sick people out here that can not meet their requirements with the parameters now


to tell people that are caring for sick and dying loved ones to stay in the parameters of a given format ....

well--
when my wife was dying from terminal cancer 2yrs a year ago I would have told even the police to fuck off as far as what I was doing legal or not to help her-


so you need to be a "dr" if your going to step in this shit-
not the legal guy who is trying to rub our nose in somthing

share your legal info...but

i would appreciate a real dr mentality when dealing with us here on this site....

we are ""patients""

 

[buckaroo bonzai]

no secret that we are ...er ...sec8

What is important is that courtroom rules of evidence require firm proof that the three prongs of the defense are met. For that reason, it is not for some people to try on their own,


Has this topic been discussed to the nth degree?

exactly the card is basically just a ""get out of jail free"" card now for possession of small amounts--
that leaves us 'broadly' under the umbrella of sec8--I agree

the rest of your statement is the crux of the whole argument now isn't it?


3prong
2prong
wtf??

 

[buckaroo bonzai]

I am sure the 3ma shut you down because the arguments you are making are absurd and will get people arrested. The serious errors in reasoning you were using were pointed out to you by those who know far more about the law (ie lawyers) than you do. You continued to promote getting patients arrested for doing some really stupid things, like thinking weight limits, caregiver relationships, transporting marijuana, etc were not laws but suggestions to be ignored on a routine basis.

I guess you are going to try RIU. Let's see if you can get some believers here.

Dr. Bob

your FBL in here....most of us live on a lot of faith here B-


there are lawyers and warehouse grows standing on some of this shit now-
shall we dissect it dr?

 

[DaleRoberts]

I feel like this...let people smoke and medicate. Let people help other people medicate.

If a person is really in this game to cure ailments. Let them help by any means. If a cat wants to be a dope dealer he's gonna fry his own ass no matter what.

Some of us have real jobs besides this bud. Homes, assets, families who need us around.

I know alot of guys that grow full time. They are in it to sell dope not cure anyone. Others are in it genuinely.

Either way...if you put it out on the line shit happens. This is some serious business.

 

[GregS]

Bob is anything but professional. This is a physician posting this silly shit?? Give us your credentials Townsend. Show us you CV and we'll throw beads.

 

[GregS]

Here comes the bullshit broom , time to sweep this one up ! Most here are compliant with the Act and all Rules and Regulations as the time to interpret the law on an individual basis is long gone ..

So your saying I can grow all I want with the Docs cert and offer it to whomever I choose ? Wow that sounds like the black market dealer who holds a wild card at the table . I guess in the end I am not one to throw all my chips down as I like to eat in private and at home verses the luxury of a Cell Diner !

Thanks for the thread as I know its going to be a real fun one , just wait and see !

What we are talking about is the text of the law. Nothing more, and nothing less.

 

[DaleRoberts]

What we are talking about is the text of the law. Nothing more, and nothing less.

May as well just call it speaking about technicalities that can leave you jailed more so than not.

 

[GregS]

Imagine what will happen for us when the shit gets legalized, and we still have section 8.

 

[GregS]

Call it whatever you like.

 

[DaleRoberts]

If its legal ...section 8 will no longer matter.

 

[GregS]

3 prongs = sec. 8(a), subsections (1,2,3)