ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Now you are just being a pathetic liar.
https://www.rollitup.org/politics/636497-they-seem-scared-death-about-11.html
Gold. GOLD!!!!! Gooooollllllllllddddddd!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter ChesusRice
- Start date
https://www.rollitup.org/politics/636497-they-seem-scared-death-about-11.html
The rounds were purchased to drive up the cost... Just another form of gun/ammo control.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
The cost of ammo went up for 2 reasons
-Fear
-Stupidity
Stop getting your info from Alex Jones
Supply and demand actually, it doesn't change depending on the product.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Even the big ammunition retailers are feeling the pinch. Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) has been rationing its ammo since January, to three boxes per customer per day. And when a gun retailer like Cabela's (CAB) gets two or three shrink-wrapped pallets of 5.56 mm or .223 ammunition for AR-15 assault rifles, they're "cleaned off like locusts, within a couple of hours," according to Brian Rafn, a research director at Morgan Dempsey Capital Management in Milwaukee who follows ammo manufacturers. "You're talking about a massive civilian arsenal build up," he added.
As demand has climbed, so have prices, from $12 for a box of 50 rounds for assault rifles to $25 a box, said Rafn.
Ammunition manufacturers declined to comment on whether they've ramped up production, but Rafn expects that they have.
"They're probably [working] three shifts, seven days a week plus overtime," Rafn says of manufacturers like Alliant Techsystems (ATK, Fortune 500), Olin (OLN), Winchester, Hornady Manufacturing and Remington. "They're probably scrambling to build new plants like they haven't done in eons."
http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/companies/guns-ammo-shortage/index.html
None of this has anything to do with the hollow point ammo the government bought
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
So the goverment bought hollow point ammo. They bought toilet seats as well
what are they preparing for? Why do they need enough bullets that they could fight the Iraq war and Afghan war for 20 years for?
He doesn't seem to have a grasp on how many 1 billion actually is, it seems.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
all been answered already
There are dozens of articles hyping government purchases of ammunition over the last nine months. After spending weeks researching this topic, this is a collection of commonly held myths that are based more on panic than fact.
With the recent release of a letter from the Department of Homeland Security to Senator Coburn, the numbers we calculated independently seem to corroborate the narrative coming from DHS. The concerns surrounding DHS stockpiling ammunition are nothing but more fear-mongering and largely unwarranted. For once, here are the facts to set the record straight:
MYTH: DHS purchased 750 million rounds of several different types of ammunition in August 2012.
FACT: The DHS contract never stated 750 million rounds at any time. It is a five year contract with a maximum purchase of 70 million rounds over the life of the contract. Military Times recently addressed this issue as well.
MYTH: DHS purchased an unprecedented 450 million rounds of .40 S&W 180gr hollow point bullets in 2012.
FACT: This is a standard five year contract that follows a historical purchasing pattern of DHS. Furthermore, it is not an “unprecedented” purchase by DHS. In fact, it is not even a purchase by DHS but by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
Starting in 2003, orders of 50 million and 225 million .40 S&W hollow point ammunition totaling 275 million rounds were purchased. After the expiration of the five year contracts in 2008, ICE purchased an additional 575 million rounds of .40 S&W hollow point ammunition with two separate orders (200 million and 375 million). Now, with the expiration of the 2008 contract, ICE has ordered a maximum of 450 million rounds over the next five years.
MYTH: DHS recently purchased 21.6 million rounds for their New Mexico Training Center.
FACT: The math doesn’t add up. The FedBid listing is actually for 240,000 rounds.
MYTH: The estimated 1.6 billion rounds purchased by DHS would sustain the military for over 20 years.
FACT: This myth was even reported by Forbes. While this number is comparable to rounds expended at the height of combat in Iraq, the actual ammunition produced for the military annually is, quite ironically, 1.6 billion rounds. Many conspiracy theorists are not accounting for ammunition expended in training.
A well-trained police officer will expend a minimum of 2,000 to 5,000 rounds per year, yet may never fire their weapon in defense. There is a significant disparity between rounds fired for training and those fired in a real world scenario.
Similarly, DHS agencies train quarterly, with an expectation of using 1,000 rounds per year per firearm for training and qualifications, while an officer may never fire a single round from their firearm on duty.
MYTH: DHS purchasing a wide variety of calibers for training means they are training for war with the American people and to utilize common civilian weapons.
FACT: DHS has purchased large quantities of ammunition in a variety of calibers once in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012. The orders included .22 LR, .44 Magnum, 7.62 x 39mm, .45 LC, and a variety of other popular calibers to be used at several Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers across the country by a wide variety of agencies and entities.
MYTH: The government is purchasing 1.6 billion rounds to cause shortages on the civilian market.
FACT: Actually, the total number of rounds purchased from late 2011 to 2013 is less than 800 million rounds over five years. Conspiracy theorists have overestimated the round counts by at least 800 million rounds. Current orders mirror prior purchases totaling 766 million rounds from 2006-08 and 454 million in 2003, all over five year periods.
The total for government purchase orders on a per year delivery basis calculates out to less than 160 million rounds purchased this year. For perspective, the National Shooting Sports Foundation and NRA estimate a minimum of 10 billion rounds of ammunition is produced domestically annually. This translates to the Department of Homeland Security affecting 1.6% of the market share of ammunition domestically produced.
A recent response by the Department of Homeland Security to Senator Tom Coburn reflects even lower numbers. In 2013, DHS expects to purchase $37 million of ammunition. This total is in between the last two years of purchases and puts their total round count closer to 105 million rounds. In reality, DHS has closer to 1.05% of the total market share for this year and far less than the last three years.
MYTH: Then why can’t I find ammo? What’s causing the shortage?
FACT: We’re causing the shortage. As an employee for a major firearms retailer, I can testify we receive shipments of the three highest demand calibers (9mm, .22 LR, and .223 Rem/5.56 NATO) at least 3-5 times weekly and in quantities far exceeding our normal shipments. We see as many as 1,000 boxes of ammunition disappear in as little as four hours.
People are responding to the unknown with fear and hoarding of ammunition. Manufacturers are replenishing the shelves, but the civilian market is buying it too fast due to warranted (and unwarranted) concerns. Don’t believe me? Ask your dealers, or wait at a local Wal-Mart.
MYTH: If the government isn’t stockpiling, why would they purchase so much at once? To save money?
FACT: The government purchases large quantities of ammunition in ID/IQ (Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity) orders, only guaranteeing to purchase as little as 1,000 or 100,000 rounds per year. The large orders lock in rates in the event ammunition prices increase as they have in recent years.
For instance, a large order means DHS can purchase ammunition in 2012 at 2008 prices from a contract secured in 2007. However, it can translate to manufacturers passing the cost onto consumers. But remember, these orders account for less than 1.6% of the annual market share for just domestically produced ammunition--not including foreign imports. For now, price increases are demand related.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/04/The-Great-DHS-Ammunition-Stockpile-Myth
Doer
Well-Known Member
Ah...atmospheric gold.
The 5th Canon of Illuminati. Or something else? Any reference to what the....?
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
thats bullshit from zacharias sitchin. a coast to coast am standard issue nutbar.
he makes scientology look sensible. we got his "revalations" from babylonian and akadian tablets which only he can read to acheive the wisdom that reveals the aliens on Nibiru, The Destroyer!!! (damn,, you need reverb and echo to make it properly dramatic.) a mysterious 'brown dwarf" which no astronomer can detect, and which has alien life that needs gold for their super science atmosphere rejuvenation plants. blah blah blah, think L Ron Hubbard's Battlefeild Earth with less believable writing and a more space opera plot (mindblowing i know)
im surprised scientology hasnt sued him for plagiarism yet.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Hope you guys realize FMJ is for military. Hollow points are standard issue for law enforcement. The Hague Convention banned the use of hollow points by our military. Law enforcement still use expanding ammunition or hollow points, because it tends not to go through the target and into other unintended targets. You guys with your freaking conspiracy thinking, its a wonder you people can still function to go outside.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
actually it was not 1.6 billion rounds of hollow points. It was 1.6 rounds of ammo some being hollow point http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/
Nice to have facts...otherwise people will tend to just LIE
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
Brother, I think you are the ONLY person in this conversation that isn't sure that EVERYONE is aware the military doesn't use hollow points. If they were talking about ammo that the military COULD use, there wouldn't be any reason to be talking about it. It's because the ammo CAN'T be used by the military that it sparks the conspiracy theories.
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
a tall tale straight from uranus!!
London, take note of this, this is the proper critical thinking that us as American citizens need to display. Turn off your Television and start thinking for yourself.
LOL are you still going there? You have convinced yourself of the facts of the matter, yet to try desperately to save whatever small amount of face you might be able to, you insist on acting like a 3rd grader.
Exactlyhow many of the 1.6 billion rounds on the open purchase order are going to be hollow points? You are probably correct when you say that they won't all be hollow points because we already know that fed agencies do not practice with hollow points due to the cost factor.
So what?
Currently the DHS agencies use less than 15 million rounds per year. Are we really saying that we need 100 years worth of ammo? Shit stores a long time, but not that long.
Are you catching a glimpse of the problem here?
londonfog
Well-Known Member
And Brother you completely missed what I was saying about the whole conversation....again military does not use hollow points BUT our law enforcement does,has,will....the very reason why they are ordered is for our LE who has used hollow points for some time now. You guys make it seem like hollow point are a new thing to law enforcement. Care to make another bet on how long hollow points have been used by our law enforcement. ???