12 VOLT DEEP CYCLE BATTERY POWER for LEDS

[dochickory]

I have been researching practicality of powering LED panels with 12v battery power supply, this can be handy for folks off the grid using solar, wind or other means to trickle charge the 12v battery. In my case a marine 8D deep cycle battery w/1400 cold cranking amps with 400+ minutes reserve capacity during power outages or for times when there is no charge input.

According to the formula V X AMPS = Watts in this case 12 X 1400 = 16,800 Watts I should be able to run any panel(s) I've seen for growing, seems like the issue would be a controller that can operate on 12v and keep the output correct/constant, am I on the right track?. I've e-mailed Hans about distributing his panels in Alaska, I'll see if he can enlighten me on the 12v issue.

If anybody here has info on the subject I would appreciate any input you may have, My application is in a Travel Trailer which has a constavolt system for trickle charging the battery, at times I'd like to use solar, living in the LAND OF THE MIDNIGHT SUN and all

maybe I should talk to the nice folks with the wind, solar systems they have batteries for storage...afterthought see how this forum helps soooo much just talking to myself about it he he

 

[MagikNinja]

hmm im no electrition but that sounds like it could definatly be possible! id like to know how it would work

 

[FranJan]

http://ledsmagazine.com/features/10/4/4.
Thought you might like this.

 

[skunkd0c]

not sure what you are asking to be honest, 12 volt car type lead acid batteries ?
the amount of power they store is rated in the uk in amp hours
a typical battery would produce something like 80 amp hours
the larger exspensive ones are 200 -300 amp hours and they cost £200 each

12 volts x 300 amp hours = 3600 watts for 1 hour or 7200 watts for 30 minutes this is how much power the battery can produce over a given time frame before
it will need charging again
to produce your 16kw you would need something bigger, the £200 deep cycle car battery could produce 14kw but only for 15 minutes or so before it would be flat

peace

 

[skunkd0c]

this big thing is 48 kwh lol
so this would provide 48 volts at 1000 amps it could be set up to produce 24 volts at 2000 amps or 12 volts at 4000 amps for 1 hour or even 96 volts at 500 amps for 1 hour
if the batteries (cells* are connected in series the voltage will increase, if they are connected in parallel the amps will increase

[video=youtube;4PYAy5J4lUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYAy5J4lUw[/video]

this thing above could run 1000w of light for 4 day 12 hour photo periods before it needs charging again

peace

 

[SnotBoogie]

Sorry dohickory - forgot about your post in the new to LEDs thread.

a LED panel is driven by a constant current driver. I think this would do the regulation for you even in a DC-to-DC system.

I haz work to do but this evening i will check back in to this thread

 

[dochickory]

not sure what you are asking to be honest, 12 volt car type lead acid batteries ?
the amount of power they store is rated in the uk in amp hours
a typical battery would produce something like 80 amp hours
the larger exspensive ones are 200 -300 amp hours and they cost £200 each

12 volts x 300 amp hours = 3600 watts for 1 hour or 7200 watts for 30 minutes this is how much power the battery can produce over a given time frame before
it will need charging again
to produce your 16kw you would need something bigger, the £200 deep cycle car battery could produce 14kw but only for 15 minutes or so before it would be flat

peace

Thanks Skunk, yea the battery I have is a 8D deep cycle (big stuff) it has 12v @ 1400-1700 amp hours (depending on temp) specs say reserve at that rate for 400+ minutes, we use these on the big boats for house service and electronics on the bridge. nice set of cup cakes...... LOL

 

[dochickory]

Sorry dohickory - forgot about your post in the new to LEDs thread.

a LED panel is driven by a constant current driver. I think this would do the regulation for you even in a DC-to-DC system.

I haz work to do but this evening i will check back in to this thread

Thanks a bunch for helping out, I think this should work...question is how long? I just see alot of applications for a battery w/trickle charge system for small grows, and having the recharge source wind, solar or A/C like I presently use

 

[dochickory]

http://ledsmagazine.com/features/10/4/4.
Thought you might like this.

Thanks FranJan, good link, I'll dig into it

 

[Chronikool]

I didnt think 'cold cranking amps' and 'amp hours' are the same thing...?

 

[dochickory]

I didnt think 'cold cranking amps' and 'amp hours' are the same thing...?

might not be, that's why I need the help....LOL but, seriously we run serious electronics off these 8D batteries.

I can't stand the pressure, I need a smoke

 

[SnotBoogie]

Sooo dohick - im still not quite sure what you're asking. this project sounds cool though, so i'd love to help.

The task is to find a panel that will run off the DC, right? and figure out how regularly it'll need charging? Or are you looking for more general advice?

edit: and in my previous post i said "the driver would handle it for you" which makes it sound like ANY driver will be fine running off the DC which is untrue. almost all retail panels have AC-to-DC drivers. BUT, you can get DC to DC drivers. Normally with higher required input voltages than 12v but that indicates there will be a solution.

If you can find a compatible driver (same output current, rated watts and rated volts as the original driver from the panel, but with DC input instead of AC) you could just take the panel apart and switch them over. Really easy job, just changing around 4 wires

If you dont want to do that, or it voids the warranty and this bothers you, You could perhaps select a driver and pay Hans or whichever panel company you go with the extra to buy and fit it.

 

[dochickory]

Sooo dohick - im still not quite sure what you're asking. this project sounds cool though, so i'd love to help.

I can't thank you enough for the help, first I would like to run 3 Hans Panels using the gro-panels http://bonsaihero.com then run the small necessary fans & pumps I don't care about warranty for the first three, after that I would like to figure on getting correct parts? I see needing several of these sets for battery set-ups.

The task is to find a panel that will run off the DC, right? and figure out how regularly it'll need charging? Or are you looking for more general advice?

Yea, run off of a decent size 8D Battery source, recharge using either wind, solar, tidal and A/C, or any combination of these.

edit: and in my previous post i said "the driver would handle it for you" which makes it sound like ANY driver will be fine running off the DC which is untrue. almost all retail panels have AC-to-DC drivers. BUT, you can get DC to DC drivers. Normally with higher required input voltages than 12v but that indicates there will be a solution.

If you can find a compatible driver (same output current, rated watts and rated volts as the original driver from the panel, but with DC input instead of AC) you could just take the panel apart and switch them over. Really easy job, just changing around 4 wires

I've included a link to http://bonsaihero.com to see the panel and specs, I will use the gro-panel

If you dont want to do that, or it voids the warranty and this bothers you, You could perhaps select a driver and pay Hans or whichever panel company you go with the extra to buy and fit it.

Actually I'm talking to Hans about panel issues, waiting for latest reply about this subject, I will post his reply
Thanks again, smoke break

 

[Beefbisquit]

Deep cycle = small amps for extended periods of time.

Normal car batteries = high amps for short period of time.



You need a power inverter to turn DC to AC. Run from DC to the inverter, then Power a panel with your inverter, and run a circuit or two from your circuit breaker to what ever you want to power., i.e. your panels, fans, etc.

Same shit with solar panels. You power deep cycle marine batteries, then switch from DC to AC via an inverter. You need a battery bank - how much power you'll need depends on how many batteries you'l need.

 

[dochickory]

Sooooo is that what it should be? incorporate an inverter to power a sm. dist panel sounds reasonable, going to power 3 Panels http://bonsaihero.com and misc sm fans and pumps. Thanks for looking Beef, are ya sure the deep cycle = short amps? cause we use em in boats for house electronics. they like 80%-90% drain thought I read...smoke gets in my eyes

btw going to recharge w/wind, solar, tidal and A/C as it's available

 

[Beefbisquit]

Sooooo is that what it should be? incorporate an inverter to power a sm. dist panel sounds reasonable, going to power 3 Panels http://bonsaihero.com and misc sm fans and pumps. Thanks for looking Beef, are ya sure the deep cycle = short amps? cause we use em in boats for house electronics. they like 80%-90% drain thought I read...smoke gets in my eyes

btw going to recharge w/wind, solar, tidal and A/C as it's available

Yes, I'm positive. Deep cycle batteries provide a steady current for long periods of time and regular car batteries provide very high current for short periods of time.

To run electronics, you need continuous current, not a short burst; hence using deep cycle batteries on boats, and solar applications. Virtually everything runs off of AC, so you need an inverter to switch your deep cycle battery bank, into usable AC. Totally doable, a bit of start-up cost; but well worth it in the end if you're removing your need for 'the grid'.

 

[Chronikool]

If you are using an inverter....make sure it is 'True Sine wave' rather the 'modified sine wave'...True Sine will look after your sensitive electronics.

 

[kpmarine]

Yes, I'm positive. Deep cycle batteries provide a steady current for long periods of time and regular car batteries provide very high current for short periods of time.

To run electronics, you need continuous current, not a short burst; hence using deep cycle batteries on boats, and solar applications. Virtually everything runs off of AC, so you need an inverter to switch your deep cycle battery bank, into usable AC. Totally doable, a bit of start-up cost; but well worth it in the end if you're removing your need for 'the grid'.

Car batteries also do not like being drained. You can only drain and recharge them a minor fraction of the times a deep cycle will handle. If nothing else, that makes car batteries too expensive for a battery bank.

 

[kpmarine]

I didnt think 'cold cranking amps' and 'amp hours' are the same thing...?

They aren't, CCA is the amps your car battery puts out at 32F. It's a rating of it's own.

 

[SnotBoogie]

Interesting stuff guys,

But surely there will be efficiency losses converting to AC and then back to DC? or are they negligible?