More on the evils of capitalism.

SlaveNoMore

Active Member
No, honestly i just wanna know how we'll deal with fuckheads in our utopia, like i've been saying for days. After all this effort wasted in futility I no longer give a shit. You have dominated me with your dogged avoidance of that simple concept's existence and an attempt to offer a solution to this problem.
I think the first step would be to understand WHY they are acting like fuckheads, then come up with a solution to the problem. Yes, by not rewarding the bad behavior is a solution but why are they acting like fuckheads? Perhaps the answers would further push the utopia along.

What do you think?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
You know what?

Fuck everybody.

I'm with you guys, I'm going to see how profitable being a bastard is.

I'm going Ayn Rand up in this bitch. Capitalism is the answer. The world needs less trees and more ass holes.
But then by your admission you're going against the overwhelmingly more reasonable choice.

3+3 is 6. 5+1 is also 6. From the Prisoner matrix. As far as I can see, six doesn't overwhelm half a dozen. cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I think the first step would be to understand WHY they are acting like fuckheads, then come up with a solution to the problem. Yes, by not rewarding the bad behavior is a solution but why are they acting like fuckheads? Perhaps the answers would further push the utopia along.

What do you think?
If you buy into the Prisoner matrix, it is because 5 > 3. It really is that simple imo. cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sometimes you get 5, but you usually get 3. This is statistical.

I would rather get 4 every time.
There is no 4 option. Cooperators working with cooperators get 3 each time. Cooperators poleaxed by a defector get zip-a-rino.
Defectors get 1 when in their own company. The big payout comes when they screw the trusting.

I consider this as a basic feature of human nature, the one that moots your exhortations to extend trust, trust, trust. that is the losing gambit. Stalin got this one on the nose:
trust but verify. cn

Back later; gotta boogie.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
There is no 4 option. Cooperators working with cooperators get 3 each time. Cooperators poleaxed by a defector get zip-a-rino.
Defectors get 1 when in their own company. The big payout comes when they screw the trusting.

I consider this as a basic feature of human nature, the one that moots your exhortations to extend trust, trust, trust. that is the losing gambit. Stalin got this one on the nose:
trust but verify. cn

Back later; gotta boogie.
Deciphering...

No this is just the way it is, so says Stalin. You're therefore wrong and I have to go."

I suggest you take another look at game theory behavior research.

It overwhelmingly attests to the benefit of mutual aid. The only problem is fear. Fear causes selfish behavior, nay it TEACHES it. Game theory also proves that mutual aid, as a taught behavior is very easy to establish and spreads, just as molecules arrange into crystals.

Instead of cowering, inspire some hope. There can be no providence with out hope my friend.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I think the first step would be to understand WHY they are acting like fuckheads, then come up with a solution to the problem. Yes, by not rewarding the bad behavior is a solution but why are they acting like fuckheads? Perhaps the answers would further push the utopia along.

What do you think?
I agree. We not only can, but should try to improve and eliminate environmentally caused issues. I fear a very small segment of the population is predisposed to being fuckheads through defective genetic coding. The dregs who were dregs due to socio-economic external factors will be reduced and possibly entirely eliminated. It's the defective fuckheads that concern me.

If this percentage is less than .00001%, that's still enough people to throw a wrench in our utopia. I haven't figured out a way to deal with that problem without force, whether force of will or physical force (or eradication).
 

learning05

Active Member
I fear a very small segment of the population is predisposed to being fuckheads through defective genetic coding...It's the defective fuckheads that concern me.
Being a fuckhead is a function of gentics? Since when? I get neuro-psycho mutations of genes causing a biological issue but the way that issue is addressed is what makes one a fuckhead. It is a choice...right
 

SlaveNoMore

Active Member
I agree. We not only can, but should try to improve and eliminate environmentally caused issues. I fear a very small segment of the population is predisposed to being fuckheads through defective genetic coding. The dregs who were dregs due to socio-economic external factors will be reduced and possibly entirely eliminated. It's the defective fuckheads that concern me.

If this percentage is less than .00001%, that's still enough people to throw a wrench in our utopia. I haven't figured out a way to deal with that problem without force, whether force of will or physical force (or eradication).
I think you are correct that there are people that are outright fuckheads. I would even go as far to say that these fuckheads would be dangerous in a utopian society if they were able to sway people toward their way of thinking. Then you have a dangerous collective. Then war. Then back to square one.

I'll have to sit and think about this one. The problem lies in the fact that there are people that can't function in mutually beneficial way. Even though the percentage may be very small it is still a problem that needs to be looked at.

My only thought at this time is evolution. Over a period of time these bad apples would die off. It pains me to say this but I don't think there would be a way to deal with these people without the use of force and segregation in the short term. Segregation by means of territory not by means of imprisonment. Crime and punishment will still exist. I guess it wouldn't be a utopia then would it?
 

SlaveNoMore

Active Member
Being a fuckhead is a function of gentics? Since when? I get neuro-psycho mutations of genes causing a biological issue but the way that issue is addressed is what makes one a fuckhead. It is a choice...right
This is kinda the point to my last post. I don't think bad behavior is genetic but environmental. It would still take time for the bad behavior to die off in a new society.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Being a fuckhead is a function of gentics? Since when? I get neuro-psycho mutations of genes causing a biological issue but the way that issue is addressed is what makes one a fuckhead. It is a choice...right
In general terms yes, it can be genetics. We identify sociopaths with 20/20 hindsight in early childhood.

There are people with no remorse, they are lacking empathy, and operate as sociopaths no matter the environmental factors.

It is a choice, yes, but if you can't determine right and wrong, your choice may negatively affect me and harsh my utopia. What recourse am I left with here? I believe genetic malfunctions happens in all species because we have documented proof. Defects in nature are generally killed or left to die by the mother. Not true in society. What to do with them?
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
This is kinda the point to my last post. I don't think bad behavior is genetic but environmental. It would still take time for the bad behavior to die off in a new society.
They still think I am advocating revolution and forceful centralized communism and nothing can convince them otherwise.

That which can be destroyed by truth ought to be.
 

SlaveNoMore

Active Member
They still think I am advocating revolution and forceful centralized communism and nothing can convince them otherwise.

That which can be destroyed by truth ought to be.
You seem more fluid to me. I think once you start talking about anarchy people automatically think you want to pull the walls in on yourself. Rather than see anarchy as just a point of reference or a springboard it is taken as LAW. "You are an anarchist therefore you are an asshole". It's just a philosophy. You speak out against the existing tribe and the tribe sees this as a threat. IMO.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I'll have to sit and think about this one. The problem lies in the fact that there are people that can't function in mutually beneficial way. Even though the percentage may be very small it is still a problem that needs to be looked at.
You have just as much power as they do to influence the collective subconscious. Your act of forgiveness can have an equal and opposite effect upon the douche-osphere that their act of dickishness has on you. It is a choice people make everyday. It is a world we create.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
You seem more fluid to me. I think once you start talking about anarchy people automatically think you want to pull the walls in on yourself. Rather than see anarchy as just a point of reference or a springboard it is taken as LAW. "You are an anarchist therefore you are an asshole". It's just a philosophy. You speak out against the existing tribe and the tribe sees this as a threat. IMO.
I'm the 100th monkey.
 

SlaveNoMore

Active Member
You have just as much power as they do to influence the collective subconscious. Your act of forgiveness can have an equal and opposite effect upon the douche-osphere that their act of dickishness has on you. It is a choice people make everyday. It is a world we create.
Right, but I'm talking about extreme cases. The murderers that have no remorse. Think of the BTK killer. These are people who exist in society and pose a very real danger. I agree with acts of forgiveness but there would have to be a transition period where the status quo is still burned in to people's minds and people aren't used to a new way of living.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I'll have to sit and think about this one. The problem lies in the fact that there are people that can't function in mutually beneficial way. Even though the percentage may be very small it is still a problem that needs to be looked at.
Someone will have to set parameters to what is considered bad behavior too. That leads to another problem of me possibly having to live by somebody's standards of behavior or code of ethics other than my own. Not utopia.

My only thought at this time is evolution. Over a period of time these bad apples would die off. It pains me to say this but I don't think there would be a way to deal with these people without the use of force and segregation in the short term. Segregation by means of territory not by means of imprisonment. Crime and punishment will still exist. I guess it wouldn't be a utopia then would it?
We'll need somebody delegated to decide who is banished to crazy land. This gives one man power over another, which also leads to hierarchies, which is the antithesis of our utopia.

I think we've seen the problem with anarchy as a rule. Even if the Jehova's are right and we've only been around 6000 years, I can't see us breeding ourselves into perfection any time soon. If we believe the scientists and we've been around (a little) longer, we can deduce the odds of ever doing so is astronomical.
 
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