The UK Growers Thread!

[Turbanator]

Who are you strange man beast?

I have no grow. If i wasn't so stoned as to forget to use a question mark, all would have been clearer.

u know who i am suger plums, im the man with a mbS connection!

and you with carp? getting high?

so what happened at the job then? fucked it of? or turned gay?

im contemplating doing meself in! lol,, bad times


and lemon,, flushing is a fucking myth bruv,,, u may be able to find surveys wat says its needed, but bet we can find a gzillion that say its not,fuk that,, total bullshit for 2 weeks flush, few days job done BAM!

 

[ninja1]

I'm only gonna flush for a couple days sod 2 weeks lol. Ill come down in the nutes slowly for the final week. Then few days flush before chopping.

if I can get 15 from my blue cheese and then say 4/5 from under my 250 ill be a happy man lol. Got two girls I'm gonna flower in the 250w tomorrow. Just gotta find a place or make something for the cfl to sit on so the blue cheese can stay there for 2 weeks or so while my 600w tent comes to an end. Hope that makes sense lol. Strains I got in there will take 7 weeks so be 5 week gap from them and my current grow.

 

[Turbanator]

I'm only gonna flush for a couple days sod 2 weeks lol. Ill come down in the nutes slowly for the final week. Then few days flush before chopping.

if I can get 15 from my blue cheese and then say 4/5 from under my 250 ill be a happy man lol. Got two girls I'm gonna flower in the 250w tomorrow. Just gotta find a place or make something for the cfl to sit on so the blue cheese can stay there for 2 weeks or so while my 600w tent comes to an end. Hope that makes sense lol. Strains I got in there will take 7 weeks so be 5 week gap from them and my current grow.

youve nbever seen 15 oz mate!

 

[indikat]

[video=youtube;5NNuHG39_dQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNuHG39_dQ[/video]

flushing again

I would smash those yields....the plants are starving and the buds skinny, poor growing especially the guy who strips fan leaves whilst flushing ffs what is feeding the DEVELOPING bud.....why starve them.......fukin annoyin yanks hope no one grows t[like these numpties

 

[ninja1]

Most I've got is my first grow of 13. After that only done autos but give up with them

 

[biz1984]

Well last night was fun me and me mate had 80 mushies between us and just pissed ourselves all night was funny as fuck. Watching xfactor and downton abbey and just thought everything was hilarious defo gonna get some more...I just dont like that sick feeling they give ya. Think it took me about an hour to roll a joint then about 2 jour to smoke it l, ao I was fucked good times good times

 

[Lemon king]

I would smash those yields....the plants are starving and the buds skinny, poor growing especially the guy who strips fan leaves whilst flushing ffs what is feeding the DEVELOPING bud.....why starve them.......fukin annoyin yanks hope no one grows t[like these numpties

He explains this is due to having to much to do at harvest...... in the prior vid above...the blue rhino buds are huge, he even says he tried feeding them, but they did not green up and are clearly cannablising themselves.....

I wish some fucker would come up with a proper answer and factual explanation....i also think two weeks is too long and i taper my nutes.down to leach nutes from the root zone.....then flush with non ph water for a week.

I know how much there drinking everyday now, if when i add water the levels dont drop as fast or faster i will assume they still want feeding.....this seems like the best idea to know for sure.....i assume they wouldnt drink the nutes if they didnt still need them.....thus it would prove wether or not there still drinking nutes or wether water is what they want.

The only problem with this i can see is wether or not flushing is used to strip the plants on purpose....as in to remove N and yellow up the fans on purpose to create a better product.....

Canna reccomend water for the last week or there canna flush.....so is it just marketing??

The best argument against flushing is that, nutes need other nutes to work, e.g you need similar levels of mag with cal or it will throw the balance......so by flushing your clogging the plant up...actually keeping nutes in.....

As i said medigrower in that other vid has huge buds.....results speak for themselves.....

Thoughts lads??? What does botany say????

 

[biz1984]

There your plants aint they lemon so if u wanna flush then flush or try npt to flush 1 and see if there any difference mate at the end of the day there your plants so do what u want with them mate. I use to use coco which I flushed but if organics in soil you dont need to flush mate well thats what ive read anyways never neen fully organic it was me next goal but babylon got in the way of that the fuckin hermaphrodite cock sucking wankers they are

 

[indikat]

He explains this is due to having to much to do at harvest...... in the prior vid above...the blue rhino buds are huge, he even says he tried feeding them, but they did not green up and are clearly cannablising themselves.....

I wish some fucker would come up with a proper answer and factual explanation....i also think two weeks is too long and i taper my nutes.down to leach nutes from the root zone.....then flush with non ph water for a week.

I know how much there drinking everyday now, if when i add water the levels dont drop as fast or faster i will assume they still want feeding.....this seems like the best idea to know for sure.....i assume they wouldnt drink the nutes if they didnt still need them.....thus it would prove wether or not there still drinking nutes or wether water is what they want.

The only problem with this i can see is wether or not flushing is used to strip the plants on purpose....as in to remove N and yellow up the fans on purpose to create a better product.....

Canna reccomend water for the last week or there canna flush.....so is it just marketing??

The best argument against flushing is that, nutes need other nutes to work, e.g you need similar levels of mag with cal or it will throw the balance......so by flushing your clogging the plant up...actually keeping nutes in.....

As i said medigrower in that other vid has huge buds.....results speak for themselves.....

Thoughts lads??? What does botany say????

if you smoke a bud and think ummmmm this needed flushing then you are smoking a bud which needs curing imo eg cheesequake is nasty when first dried but give it a month and its ok......not very commercial....the clone onlys don't need a cure or a flush they jus need fukin feeding like u wouldn't believe....^^^^^if u treat exo like that shell bite yer arse and teach you

 

[Lemon king]

if you smoke a bud and think ummmmm this needed flushing then you are smoking a bud which needs curing imo eg cheesequake is nasty when first dried but give it a month and its ok......not very commercial....the clone onlys don't need a cure or a flush they jus need fukin feeding like u wouldn't believe....^^^^^if u treat exo like that shell bite yer arse and teach you

This subject just pisses me off tbh, there needs to be a definate answer.......im sure everyone else e.g tomato growers dont flush...

And biz i think your right soil is a living medium and takes care of its self......imo......ahhhhh you put so much in only to be gusseing at the end......

Any one here use soil.....do your leafs naturally yellow as you continue feeding to the end or not????

 

[biz1984]

Theres a few on here in grow in soil mate what medium u got? If your in coco just start reducing the amount your feeding anout 2-3 weeks before harvest depending how much youve been feeding them. I did that to one of my gth and didnt notice much difference tbh compared to the ones I flushed so just really reduce the amount you feed say if your on 40 ml per 10 ltr go down to 30 then 20 then 10 then fuck all and you sjould be sweet mate. If your in soil I cant say owt tbh cuz never done it.

 

[Lemon king]

Theres a few on here in grow in soil mate what medium u got? If your in coco just start reducing the amount your feeding anout 2-3 weeks before harvest depending how much youve been feeding them. I did that to one of my gth and didnt notice much difference tbh compared to the ones I flushed so just really reduce the amount you feed say if your on 40 ml per 10 ltr go down to 30 then 20 then 10 then fuck all and you sjould be sweet mate. If your in soil I cant say owt tbh cuz never done it.

Yea im in dwc mate so water is the medium......i do what you have suggested today i went from 12.5ml to 10 ive always called this leaching.......i think i need to know weather or not plants reduce there feeding in the last weeks of life or maintain......

Now that im talking about it "leaching" sounds more productive.......i hate being starving n im sure they do too.....

I also found this on dwc flushing its abit more scientific which i prefer, even though its harder to understand.....

 

[Lemon king]

Very nice plant, like wow!


Pr-harvest flushing puts the plants under serious stress.

I don't flush and have not done so for about 10 years. I found that starving my plants of food was counter productive. No-one in the growing world does this but weed farmers and the only reason people do it is manufactures can sell shitty products. If you cut back on the food by 50% you will get a better yield and that's what we all want. Now for some reasons not to flush, when you flush with water the first element to flush out is N, but when the N is gone it locks up other elements like Magnesium. Without Nitrogen mag stays where it is, in your plant. Evey smoke weed that popped and sparked? So if you must flush always use 25% of recommended nutrients. The other thing is the smoke and taste are all done in curing not flushing.


I put the summery first, It is also backed up by science links attached.


Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest. Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.


Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavour of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulphur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Trans-location:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements can’t be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins; most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulphur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or over fertilization and improper drying/curing.

So from this i gathrr leaching is best...

 

[ninja1]

Would there be any need in lowering the feed if your planning to do a full flush with plain water anyway? I was thinking to just lower the feed for the last week before then give it 2 waters by hand with plain water. Just thinking if the plain water is supposed to get rid of all the nutes anyway whats the point of bringing the ec down?

 

[ninja1]

Think im gonna make a veg box today for the 250w cfl, Its only gotta keep em alive for 2weeks then can start flowering 2 girls under my 250w hps. they are huge.

 

[Lemon king]

Wtf are you reading ninja??? Bringing the ec down slowly instead off flushing.....

 

[Bertie Bassett]

I did just put together a lengthy response to your posts Lemon and it fucked up because of this "2 video" rule, I can't be arsed doing it again as I've shit to do.
You might want to kerb your tone though as not every new user name is a noob.

As for the guy in the videos, he's obviously under lighting his canopy in the false pretence that yield has something to do with light penetration, yet it's actually down to an auxin called IAA (the reason why SCROG works) and botany has known this since the 30's (Thiemann).
"Cannibalising" and flushing the shit out of it over a week and then drying in pot pre harvest is just laughable.

Try reading some instead of watching bullshit on youtube.

 

[ninja1]

yeah thought some say to slowly bring down the ec as you come towards the end? Just thinking would there be much point if your going to fully flush with plain water anyway?

 

[ninja1]

uk thread guys argue so much with each other lol everyone needs to chill the fuck out

 

[Bertie Bassett]

Nobody's arguing.