BHO with Vacuum oil/wax tutorial

[qwizoking]

I may be way off.....but have any of you extracted with butane not at sub zero temps? I was under the impression it came out the can that way, meaning all bho is extracted at sub zero temps..

 

[Bublonichronic]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure when I check my butane with the Ir it's about 30F..but I suppose you could pre freeze your tube/material and solvent in a deep freezer maybe ?

 

[qwizoking]

Last time I used butane it read -9
Though I will admit I don't remember how I stored the can..it may very well have been chilled....I normally store all my solvents in my freezer..but with the boiling point of n butane being 30 and iso 10. It always comes out liquid I assume its below 0 at least single digits
Tried to Google it right quick but didn't see anything
though, any butane is subzero to our Celsius baring bretheran across the pond

 

[SaybianTv]

Butane comes out of the can cold yes, but from person to person there's allot going on to raise the temp of the tane. How long does an ice cube last on the counter before it's surface is above freezing. At least on my end the goal is to stay below zero until the last drop drips past the filter. I'm lazy so i'll chill my bud and solvent and forgo the rest and just do it fast, the whiskey stones help create a cold layer between the bud and the outer atmos. The thermometer is at the warmest spot in the container. Fade would have to expound more on the benefits so far, one thing I noticed when i tried it last week is I ended up with a dewax fail, nothing made it past my filters. I think the run was small enough it was all over within 2 minutes max. I'm not preaching it as tek but just keeping stride in a sorta distant canada way has got me feeling pretty TEKKED out for a guy with a highschool edu.

Fade did you winterize that wax an notice any change in the amount you got back? I havn't tried winterizing yet cuzz of getting nothing back from dewaxing at -50.

 

[BCOGYODA]

375 gram bud run may be just a bit much for a 5 gallon chamber the muffin was riding the edges the whole way up. Finally stopped rising an inch from the top lol.
My progress so far:

 

[SaybianTv]

I remember Im trying to bite 100% of water out of my extraction by keeping it solid enough to not pass through my filters or expose itself to plant material with it's universal grabbyness. I wish we had more data on tempurature and selectivity of solvents, the colder the less green sure but could I get so cold I miss terps?

 

[qwizoking]

Honestly to get a better extraction you should start using a higher alkane
Hexane, is the point where no more water is soluble

 

[SaybianTv]

qwizo without googling the answer im going to try to answer a question i've had by making a statement I suppose is incorrect and wait for a correction. When you say alkane are you talking about how many carbon number's a solvent's got? and that value is indicative of a solvents miscibility in water? This is the part im not good at yet when it comes to theory about what something will do based on it's chemical ID. When you say better extraction by what category of better? polarity? weight? ability to evap? I'm buzzing without a dab on what your throwing out. I never did trace how butane became the solvent of choice after years and years of hexane oil, I just assumed it was a combination of benefits that made it the best. So are you saying if one can go tek for tek with butane by using vac oven's and so forth to help hexane stay purging without needing to hit 60c one would get a "better" extract?

I feel a bit finshaggy right now so I'm gunna wait on the carbon molecule answer before i go off thinking there's a link between the alkane complexity and extraction efficacy. I always thought there was but I don't have the background to make those kinda of basic statements in chemistry. My solvent of choice is C10H16 1-methyl-4-(1-methylethenyl)-cyclohexene, and I always thought that C10 was going to be the nail in my coffin when it came to purging but in my ignorance I think it's the secret to my fire.

Your statement has got me all ear's cuzz I don't have any basic proof of my gift and curse.

 

[Bublonichronic]

. I wish we had more data on tempurature and selectivity of solvents, the colder the less green sure but could I get so cold I miss terps?

That was my first thought about subzero, you Gota be leavin other shit behind not just waxes..I recently heard someone say subzero decreases your yield about 25%, I'm pretty sure thats more loss than with winterizing?

 

[qwizoking]

Oh to clarify yes I'm talking about the carbon count but that's not really the factor.."Ethanol's miscibility with water contrasts with the immiscibility of longer-chain alcohols (five or more carbon atoms), whose water miscibility decreases sharply as the number of carbons increases. (One reason hexane better than butane) The miscibility of ethanol with alkanes is limited to alkanes up to undecane, mixtures with dodecane and higher alkanes show a miscibility gap below a certain temperature (about 13 °C for dodecane ). The miscibility gap tends to get wider with higher alkanes and the temperature for complete miscibility increases"

larger molecules can make close contact with each other over a much larger surface area than can smaller molecules. The total force exerted between the two is thus greater. In the same way we can also explain why branched-chain hydrocarbons boil at lower temperatures than straight-chain compounds. The branched molecules are more compact and provide less area over which intermolecular forces can act.

(Couple copy and pastes, I didn't feel like writing all that, I was talking to Vlad about ethanol but I think it still makes sense) since its early I'll leave you with... http://chemistry.tutorvista.com/physical-chemistry/dispersion-forces.html?view=simple

When I say a higher alkane is better yes its harder to purge but it makes a better extract....... . The only reason y'all use butane is either....too broke or otherwise can't afford hexane, too impatient for it to evap and purge, and possibly to lazy to even locate. I stopped using butane along time ago, its simply an inferior solvent.. its more polar and it boils at room temp making it dangerous and long soaks difficult

 

[qwizoking]

Ah wouldn't let me edit....a subzero extraction simply slows the rate...it will not harm the product and you will not lose anything its properties are still the same. Its still going to pull the same shit.....I repeat simply slows the extraction and you can get a better extract that way

 

[Bublonichronic]

I'm a little confused.. if it just slowes the rate but pulls the same shit how can u get a better product? I guess the waxes are alot less soluable in the solvent than cannabinoids in the first place ?

 

[qwizoking]

In the same way you get a better product with a 20 second iso soak vs a 20 minute iso soak....one yields black goop other gold shatter

The waxes and fats and other stuff in the bud is more like butane than thc..remember that conversation about, to pass the Bb barrier it must be somewhat polar to stay in your blood and still be able to diffuse across

Freezing the plant matter to trap the remaining moisture shouldn't be viewed as the same thing as freezing the solvent if that caught you up..(.I also edited that first post too after rereading saybians..to try and answer the point better)

 

[Bublonichronic]

Bahh I dunno I been drinking all night don't mind me

 

[qwizoking]

Dude where are you? For some reason I just assumed you were in the u.s.
I guess you still could be lol...drinking on a Sunday night and up by 6 am...shiiiiit

 

[Fadedawg]

When you say 5 samples. Do you mean different bud as well, all looks very similar in color which is why I ask...but looks pretty good man

All different strains and none that we grow. Both of my partners have extraction businesses, and Carla (Specialized Formulations) made the brown sugar and Joe (Oregon Medical Growers) made the waxes working on a client's product. I just snapped the pictures for reference, because of the process experiments they were running.

Skunk Pharm Research's initial experiments were with Skywalker and Green Crack, both of which produced light shatters, but which we didn't wax. Skywalker was almost transparent and the Green Crack had an electric yellow hue. Poor cloudy day pictures attached:

I did notice that Joe's containers all had different strain names on them and I sampled the first one, in the tub, to see if the taste corresponded to the intense aromatics. It was Champagne Diesel and was as flavorful as its aroma was pungent. I was invited to sample the rest, but had things to do that required my wits about me.

I'll ask them to label the sugar and wax pictures for me and report back.

Both were done by super chilling the butane before extraction, using a denatured alcohol bath and dry ice. I measured the temperature of the 50# recovery tank just above the alcohol line at -14C. At those temperatures, butane's viscosity increases and it picks up fewer plant waxes, and polar elements, the latter of which are often brightly or darkly colored.

The brown sugar was finished in a Mk IIIA Terpenator tank, and the waxes were finished in an Across International oven with a 3/4" marble slab shelf in it, to stabilize the temperature swings. Waxing temperature varies, as it was incremented upwards in 10F stages to around 140F.

The oven pressure was lowered until bubbling started, and then valved off until it ceased, before opening the vacuum valve and repeating until the most violent out gassing subsided and the patty flattened out.

 

[Fadedawg]

5 different washes? looks killer fade
i am finally running out of my wax, but my crop comes down in 10 days

All run in a Mk IIIA Terpenator with about three flood and soaks per extraction.

 

[vacpurge]

BC. youre purging that large of a batch indoors, near live electrical devices??? crazy..

also, I think if you purged it more in the dish, your muffin wouldnt get so big in the chamber giving you so much headache

 

[Fadedawg]

Hey fade. How did you get to 140?

How did you judge it? Do you raise the temp once the bubbles stop escaping. Please explain the" raised in steps to 140"

I have raised in steps as well. But I also include many fold backs of these oils down to a puck.. You have some nice chunks, such leads new to believe you either ran a good amount, and/or made a cradle for the oil to purge in.

To summarize my questions: how did you go about raising the temps. Did you bleed at a certain vacuum? Anddd did you make a cradle to get a pretty outcome?

Thanks fade! You're input is much appreciated

The parameters were all different, as Joe was experimenting. We've been trying to decide the relationship between heat and vacuum ourselves, as well as the influence of included air, to color.

When I left, the most successful light colored run was freezing the light colored cotton candy in the Mk IIIA Terpenator lower tank to aid removal, and then just scraping in into parchment paper trays, and warming them up in a vacuum oven enough to press into a patty.

The oven was already at 140F from a previous run, so instead of first purging at 115F, he stuck it at 140F and when solvent bubbles ceased, he removed it and whipped a bunch of air into it, before replacing in the vacuum oven and pulling a vacuum until it started bubbling again, at which time he closed the vacuum valve until it stopped.

He then opened the vacuum valve and repeated until out-gassing was stable and cooked until it waxed up. Vacuum levels were kept at -29.5" Hg after stabilization.

Up to this point, we have avoided whipping, but it looks like it speeds things up and lightens the colors.

Here is a shot of patties in the oven in parchment trays.

 

[Bublonichronic]

BC. youre purging that large of a batch indoors, near live electrical devices??? crazy..

also, I think if you purged it more in the dish, your muffin wouldnt get so big in the chamber giving you so much headache

yea I like to let it sit in the Pyrex for a little and do a couple whips to breaks the bubbles...really helps cut down vac time and keeps the muffins from bein to crazy..