Global Warming or Over Population - Earths Biggest Threat?

[Doer]

All I want is a clean energy source, a pristine environment, and peace. So far, not the case with big oil. The ocean is important to me and they really fuck it up. I am bitter, maybe I will share your optimism at some point.

The Ocean is polluted but not by Big Oil. So, if Gaia thinks, at all, she must have second thoughts about us, all the time.

And I suppose most people don't understand what pollution I could mean, then. No, not Big Oil, Bio-hazardous waste. Not Big Oil, just all us monkeys.

When I was kid, not 50 years ago, sea water was antiseptic. Now, all us sailors know, you better not wash a cut in sea water, any more. Are you nuts???!!!

 

[burgertime2010]

I grew up on the water and there was oil there. The damage was apparent sometimes, look at the Gulf...there were beach closures and it really affected me. Gaia was not a factor in my opinion forming as a kid. That is just hard wired into me now.

 

[Doer]

Too bad. If we can't overcome the irrational fears of our youth, with education and adult thinking, can we say we have matured?

I grew up on the gulf coast and the gulf water was antiseptic to human pathogens. Now it is not. No where is it, any longer. Not big oil. It isn't polluted with hydrocarbons. So, blame is a thin game, I say. It is what it is.

And the oil spill? That is all gone now, as usual, without a trace. Most goes to the bottom and is covered in sand...for later. The sea marshes clear, a few birds die, oyster comes back. I have seen a lot of doom claims in my life. It is all crying wolf for $$, to me.

 

[burgertime2010]

Too bad. If we can't overcome the irrational fears of our youth, with education and adult thinking, can we say we have matured?

I grew up on the gulf coast and the gulf water was antiseptic to human pathogens. Now it is not. No where is it, any longer Not big oil. It isn't polluted with hydrocarbons. So, blame is a thin game, I say. It is what it is.

And the oil spill? That is all gone now, as usual, without a trace. Most goes to the bottom and is covered in sand...for later. The sea marshes clear, a few birds die, oyster come back. I have seen a lot of doom claims in my life. It is all crying wolf for $$, to me.

The fear is not limited to that. Pollution of the air, support of the business, and better technologies all are rational. I don't drive and my allegiance and support of oil is non-existent. It is not a maturity, just time to move on.

 

[heckler73]

 

[Milovan]

So folks, what are your thoughts on what is the larger threat to the health of our planets ecosystem: Global Warming or Over Population? Your thoughts?

 

[Red1966]

You know I felt sorry for red and thought UB was being a dick to him but I saw something in red which leads me to believe where there's smoke there's red..I mean fire

And once again political ideology trumps reason.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

The fear is not limited to that. Pollution of the air, support of the business, and better technologies all are rational. I don't drive and my allegiance and support of oil is non-existent. It is not a maturity, just time to move on.

Then I would hop off your computer, and get rid of every bit of plastic you have in the house. You can thank me later, after your support is actually non-existant.

I don't think people realize just how much stuff is made with oil.

 

[see4]

And once again political ideology trumps reason.

Or is it internet persona trumps truthiness?

 

[see4]

We are producing more than we are importing..

The United States tiptoed closer to energy independence last month when — for the first time in nearly two decades — it produced
more crude oil than it imported, federal officials said Wednesday.


The nation has been moving toward this milestone, because two trends are converging. Domestic oil production is at a 24-year high while foreign oil imports are at a 17-year low. The result: production exceeded net imports for the first time since February 1995, although the nation still imports 35% of the petroleum it uses.


Production has been booming partly because of hydraulic fracturing or fracking, which extracts oil by blasting water mixed with sand and chemicals underground to break apart shale rock. Meanwhile, consumption has been falling as high gasoline prices have reduced how much people drive and more efficient cars and buildings have also lowered energy use.


The White House sought to take partial credit for this "transformation," noting President Obama's near-doubling of fuel-efficiency standards for new cars and light trucks by model year 2025. Spokesman Jay Carney said this fuel-efficiency standard has lowered both energy use and carbon pollution.


"We do not need to choose between growing the economy and cutting pollution," Carney said, noting that economic output is up while U.S. greenhouse gas emissions are down. Carney said Obama's all-of-the-above energy strategy is promoting electric vehicles and biofuels as well as increased oil production, adding the administration is making more federal lands available for development.


The oil industry said Obama hardly deserves credit. "Domestic oil and natural gas production is only on the rise, thanks to development on state and private lands," the American Petroleum Institute's Kyle Isakower said in a statement. "In areas controlled by the federal government, production has actually fallen on President Obama's watch."


The non-partisan Congressional Research Service reported in March that on federal lands, oil production fell 6% and natural gas production fell 21% from the beginning of 2009 to the end of 2012.


Energy experts welcomed the production-exceeds-consumption milestone. "It's a big deal," said Jim Burkhard, head of oil market research for Denver-based consulting firm IHS, noting U.S. oil production had been falling for nearly 40 years until 2008, when it started climbing. He said high global prices created demand for oil that fracking has been able to fill while Obama's higher fuel-efficiency standards — along with steep gas prices — lowered use.


Some warn the oil boom might not last. "It's essential we continue to cut our oil use via modern, more efficient vehicles," said Daniel Weiss, director of climate strategy at the Center for American Progress, a progressive-oriented research group. "We must also grow investments in cleaner, non-oil-based transportation, including electric vehicles and public transit."


The Energy Information Administration, which revealed the milestone in its "Short-Term energy Outlook," also reported that gas prices are falling. It said the average price for a gallon of regular gasoline fell to $3.27 per gallon Monday — from $3.68 July 22. It expects pump prices will average $3.24 per gallon for this year's fourth quarter.

Yet my gas still costs $3.49 a gallon. Fuck Chevron, Mobil and Shell. Fuck them in their government tit hanging asses.

 

[Doer]

That's the spirit! $3.49 a Liter, how about?

 

[Harrekin]

Damn connection ate my post about 5 messages back.
Bottom line is that i think overpop or environmental harm are incidental to the prime issue:

we MUST get off this rock.

We've turned away from the course that leads us to spacefaring, to putting heavy industry into space. The kind of industry that'll sustain and grow an energy-intensive society cheaply enough will be dirty. You can have clean ... or you can have practicable.

But we have to get our center of mass, both industrially and socially, outside the beautiful onionskin of blue that coats Home. If we apply ourselves NOW and use resources in a mighty push to get working societies offplanet, we'll climb out entirely and leave enough that we can repair and restore the planetary ecosphere ... so it can breed the next sapient and technical society. Who knows ... we might meet our elders at last.

Imagine 50% of the US defense budget for the last 20/30 years had been given to NASA...

 

[Doer]

OK, I imagine it. Big Space endeavors everywhere before the rest of the big populations in this world sort themselves out, in orbital speak. OK. Meanwhile, as we reap the rewards, the, un-orbited decide, if they don't get to mine the moon, we won't be mining the moon, either.

So. These nations, noticing cleverly, by opening their eyes, each morning, the USA is defenseless. All that Space stuff is wide open. Good Job NASA! Thanks for neglecting to defend yourself.

To me this is what happened with the Luna Treaty and selling guidance tech for space launch, building a space station, etc. But, not because we can't defend our launch facilities and orbital stations. We can't defend the moon bases.

It is a tech check, there. A stalemate. If you can't defend the high ground, taking it, better be a, one way/one off, desperation mission.

Cooperation, or at least, hands off, until there can be space competition is desirable from all angles. Even Brazil and Viet Nam are in on it now.

And mainly, the private space economy has hardly begun. None of that could have happened had we not spent the dough to defend it all, first, I think.

 

[echelon1k1]

Imagine 50% of the US defense budget for the last 20/30 years had been given to NASA...

it would still equate to Never A Straight Answer. Skunkworks have had better successes.

 

[heckler73]

That's the spirit! $3.49 a Liter, how about?

Is it aged in an oak barrel?

 

[tobinates559]

global warming and overpopulation?? the real question is which one is the biggest lie!!!??? i think they almost tie, both complete bullshit

 

[OGEvilgenius]

I don't think either are a threat to earth. I'm pretty sure we could drop 5000 hydrogen bombs all over the planet and it would still be here. We, on the other hand, might be fucked.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I don't think either are a threat to earth. I'm pretty sure we could drop 5000 hydrogen bombs all over the planet and it would still be here. We, on the other hand, might be fucked.

I was going to say something like that.

Also, if global warming is man made, then wouldn't our over population kill us and help the earth recover?

So therefore I think Gaia is voting for over population to happen.

 

[Doer]

Is it aged in an oak barrel?

No. In EU, you don't get a bobble head, or much less even the sight of an oak barrel. Seriously they pay about 4x what we do.

 

[Harrekin]

No. In EU, you don't get a bobble head, or much less even the sight of an oak barrel. Seriously they pay about 4x what we do.

Bit dramatic, a bottle of Jack here is about $30.