a few problems in hydro PLEASE HELP +rep

spex420 said:

temp 81
rh 55
res temp 79
ph 5.5-6.9
30 ml aqua shield
5g res dwc
2.ml clorox bleach with fresh res
ppm to 1100
dyna grow


approx 30 days old had severe root rot had to plant in soil just got them back in hydro 3 days ago

ppm was 940 yesterday now its 800 but it seems the def is getting worse looks like n to me my ph was a little high 6.7... but thats still in the range for n uptake am i right?

anyways i adjusted ph to 5.5 added 30 ml aqua guard to get the roots moving res temps around 75 atm


i posted this in newbie yesterday but didnt get the answers i was looking for


my ph keeps rising yesterday it went up to 6.9 i added down to 5.5 now its back up to 6.5 ppm is 960 probably when up when i added the aquashield and ph down

from my understanding(what i read while doing google searches) when ph is rising like that your plants are using up the nutrients but their defs are getting worse please someone tell me what im doing wrong this is my third try at hydro that im failing

im confused if they are deficient in n why is the ppm not going down fuk this is starting to piss me off

+rep to best answer





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lets look at pH first, dirt and water are very different, as your in water it is safe to set a range of 5.4 to 6.1 and don't do anything unless it moves out of that range.



If your nutes are at 500 ppm and two days later there at 350ppm you need to up your ppm! It works like this, change res set ppm at say 600ppm ph 5.9 run for 24hrs, now if you ppm rise and ph drops nutes are too strong. If ppm drop and ph rises, nutes are too weak. But if you're ppm and ph are basically stable then you have found the right mix for your plants.

root rot the KIss of death, your temps are right at the doorway for inviting them in. They love warmer temps and the only thing you can do if running around there is drop a frozen water bottle into your res a few times a day and or use H2O2.

One of the most common and costly diseases associated with hydroponics; root rot is caused by Pythium spp. These pathogens produce oospores and zoospores which contaminate by contact or move freely throughout water allowing easy access to your plant's delicate root zone. Pythium spp can affect all stages of crops until finishing and primarily attack plant roots but can cause stem rots, cuttings rot, and foliar blight under the right conditions. Temperatures which are ideal for Pythium disease differ for each species and plant affected. Poorly aerated nutrient solution or waterlogged crops can easily create a perfect atmosphere for Pythium spp to thrive, causing severe damage to roots in the process. Once roots are infected with root rot organisms they tend to absorb less water and nutrients. This can in turn lead to foliar wilting and/or nutrient deficiencies. Healthy white roots will begin to turn brown followed by a developing coat of slime(adhesive glycoproteins). Left untreated, the roots will literally rot and detach from the base of the plant. Pythium spp root rot in its worst case will cause crops to die.

Several simple steps can be taken to prevent root rot in your hydroponic garden:
1- Use new or sterilized pots and grow media.
2- Avoid over-watering / over-fertilizing.
3- Adequately aerate your nutrient solution.
4- Ensure proper drainage of your grow media.
5- Keep a clean environment for storage of tools, measuring cups/spoons, and nutrient stock.

Biological control is also available:
1- Hygrozyme*- An enzyme-based product made from all natural, bacteria free ingredients. It breaks down the old root mass to allow for and stimulate new growth. I use this product at 10mL per gallon every solution change followed by a maintenance dose of 25mL per gallon half way through the solution change-out period and can attest to its effectiveness. Used from veg throughout flowering. MAY BE used with H2O2.
2- Serenade*- This product uses Bacillus subtilis as the active ingredient and is approved for organic gardening by the EPA, USDA, and OMRI. I use this product at 1mL per gallon directly in my reservoir every other water change throughout all stages of growth. NEVER combine with H2O2.
3- Florashield*- This product uses Chitosan as the active ingredient and is considered safe to use on and around actively growing plants at all stages of growth. I've used this product before with success but prefer a combination of the two products listed above. DO NOT use this product with Serenade* mixed together in your reservoir; adverse reaction to one another negates their effectiveness. However, Serenade* may still be used separately as a foliar spray to protect against fungi while using Florashield* in your reservoir to protect against root rot. NEVER combine with H2O2. A mix of Chitosan and peroxide will induce oxidative degradation.

Chemical control is also available:
1- H2O2- Hydrogen peroxide is the only effective yet "garden safe" chemical control I feel comfortable recommending. It may be used while growing consumables which isn't always the case with other chemical controls. I used a concentration of approximately 70ppm (test strips aren't 100% accurate) in my nutrient solution with success. I used no other chemical or biological control at the time, but did experience one drawback. The concentration level would dissipate down to 0ppm in two or three hours. If left unattended for one full day algae would start to appear.

References: Chase A. R., 1999, Pythuim Root Rot on Ornamentals, pp 1-2, Western Farm Services; Bagnall R., 2007, Control of Pythium wilt and root rot of hydroponically grown lettuce by means of chemical treatment of the nutrient solution, M.Sc. thesis, University of Pretoria; Owen-Going T. N., 2002, Etiology and epidemiology of Pythium root rot in bell pepper (Capsicum annuum L.) in commercial-scale and small-scale hydroponic systems, M.Sc. thesis, University of Guelph; Owen-Going T. N., Sutton J. C., & Grodzinski B., 2003, Relationships of Pythium isolates and sweet pepper plants in single-plant hydroponic units, Canadian Journal of Plant Pathology 25: pp 155–167; Murinov K. Yu., Romanko T. V., Kuramshina A. R., Kabal'nova N. N., Murinov Yu. I., 2006, Oxidative Degradation of Chitosan under the Action of Hydrogen Peroxide, pp 159-160, Institute of Organic Chemistry, Ufa Scientific Center, Russian Academy of Sciences, Ufa, Bashkortostan, Russia.

Hydrogen Peroxide and Horticulture

Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen; however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, and animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.
1. What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pre-treating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.
2. Over Watering
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water; if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.
In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution, this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinges. If they are a brownish colour with dead tips or they easily pull away there are at least the beginnings of a serious problem. Organic dirt like rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscous circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.
3. How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/overwatering.
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse throughout the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.
4. How to use it.
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.
Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) of H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.
5. Where to get it.
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities
Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web at www.hydromall.com. Direct order off the web (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). H2O2 is used to bleach hair so the local hairdresser may have a source. The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water.
3%5%, 8%
Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.
6. What to do if you already have root rot.
In Dirt:
Use peroxided water with anti-fungicide (benomyl) and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Root booster (5-15-5) or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in re-growing roots and is strongly recommended. If a plant is witty adding Nutri-Boost may save it. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry.
In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Root booster will speed recovery. If plants are wilted Nutri-Boost may help save them. Increase aeration of the water; get an air pump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any witty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy.
Summary
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.

Oxygen is an essential plant nutrient - plant root systems require oxygen for aerobic respiration, an essential plant process that releases energy for root growth and nutrient uptake. In many 'solution culture' hydroponic systems, the oxygen supplied for plant root uptake is provided mostly as dissolved oxygen (DO) held in the nutrient solution. If depletion of this dissolved oxygen in the root system occurs, then growth of plants, water and mineral uptake are reduced.
Injury from low (or no) oxygen in the root zone can take several forms and these will differ in severity between plant types. Often the first sign of inadequate oxygen supply to the roots is wilting of the plant under warm conditions and high light levels. Insufficient oxygen reduces the permeability of the roots to water and there will be an accumulation of toxins, so that both water and minerals are not absorbed in sufficient amounts to support plant growth. This wilting is accompanied by slower rates of photosynthesis and carbohydrate transfer, so that over time, plant growth is reduced and yields are affected. If oxygen starvation continues, mineral deficiencies will begin to show, roots die back and plants will become stunted. If the lack of oxygen continues in the root zone, plants produce a stress hormone - ethylene, which accumulates in the roots and causes collapse of the root cells, at this stage pathogens such as pythium can easily take hold and destroy the plant.
Oxygen in Hydroponic Nutrient Solutions
While it’s possible to measure the levels of dissolved oxygen in a hydroponic nutrient solution, it’s not carried out as often as EC and pH monitoring due to the cost of accurate DO (Dissolved Oxygen meters). However, if an effective method of aeration is continually being used, and solution temperatures are not reaching excessively high levels, then good levels of oxygenation in most systems can be achieved One of the most common and effective methods of oxygenation in hydroponic nutrient solutions is with the use of air pumps/machines and air stones.
Air Pumps and Air Stones
While there are a number of methods that can be used to introduce oxygen into a nutrient solution, many of these, such as ozone treatment, are expensive and not often used by smaller growers. One of the most practical and inexpensive, yet efficient ways of getting more dissolved oxygen into a plants root system is through forcing air into the nutrient. Air pumps are widely available in a range of sizes, from very small up to very large with capacity to run from one to many `air stones’ each introducing hundreds of tiny bubbles of fresh, oxygen rich air into the nutrient solution.
Why an Air Stone
While an air pump tube alone can bubble air into a nutrient solution, oxygenation or the process of getting atmospheric oxygen dissolved into the liquid nutrient, is much more effective where many tiny bubbles of air are created, rather than a slow stream of larger bubbles. The greater the surface contact between the air bubbles and the nutrient, the more oxygen will diffuse into the nutrient solution and smaller bubbles create a far greater surface area than a few larger bubbles will. Air stones simply break up the air flow and distribute along the surface of the porous 'stone' so that many tiny bubbles are rapidly introduced into the nutrient. Depending on the size or dimensions of the nutrient reservoir into which air is being introduced for oxygenation, air stones of different shapes and sizes can be selected. For small rectangular tanks, long thin air stones (some up to 1 foot in length) can be placed on the base of the reservoir to distribute air bubbles and oxygen uniformly. A larger number of smaller, round, cylindrical or oval air stones placed at equal distance inside a nutrient pool or tank also ensure high levels of oxygenation.
Air stones also have the benefit of acting as 'weights' which remain stable on the base, or in the lower layers of the nutrient tank - the further the bubbles have to travel to reach the surface of the nutrient, the more time oxygen has to diffuse into the liquid and the higher the rates of dissolved oxygen than can be obtained from an air pump and stone set up.
For systems with multiple nutrient reservoirs or tanks, one large air pump with many outlets will allow oxygenation into all systems and it is always a good idea to buy an air machine and air stones larger than currently required so that aeration can be increased under warmer conditions or if the hydroponic system is later expanded.
Oxygen and Temperature Effects - Effective Aeration
While forcing air bubbles deep down into the nutrient reservoir generally increases the dissolved oxygen levels in the nutrient, there is one other major factor to consider and that's the temperature of the air being pumped into the nutrient. As the temperature of a nutrient solution increases, its ability to hold dissolved oxygen decreases. So a cool nutrient solution may in fact hold twice as much oxygen at 'saturation level' than a warm solution. For example a nutrient solution at 45 F can hold around 12ppm of dissolved oxygen at 'saturation', (meaning it is the most it can hold), but the same nutrient solution at a temperature of 85 F will hold less than 7ppm at saturation. This means at a solution temperature of 85F there is much less dissolved oxygen available for the plant’s root system to take up. To complicate matters further, the requirement of the plant’s root system for oxygen at warmer temperatures, is many times greater than at cooler temperatures due to the increased rate of root respiration. So warm nutrients mean a very high oxygen requirement from the plant’s roots, but the nutrient can only hold very limited amounts of dissolved oxygen at saturation, no matter how much air is being bubbled into the solution. Ideally, nutrient solution temperatures for most plants should be run lower than the overall air temperature - this has many beneficial effects on plant growth and development. However, if overly warm air from the growing environment is pumped into an otherwise cool nutrient solution, the warm air will rapidly increase the temperature of the nutrient to that of the growing environment. If air is being pumped via an air machine with an intake close to lights or other heat sources then rapid heating of the nutrient will occur. On the other hand, cool air has the ability to reduce the temperature of the nutrient if sufficient levels are pumped in and thus result in a much more highly oxygenated solution for the plant’s roots. If keeping the nutrient solution temperature down seems to be a continual problem, checking the air inlet temperature of an air pump is a good idea. Overly warm nutrient solutions (ideally nutrient solutions should remain below 65 - 75 F) for most warm season, high light plants and well below 69 F for cool season can have serious effects on the plants root system. Apart from the increased oxygen requirement due to a much higher rate of root respiration which can rapidly result in oxygen starvation, high solution temperatures favour many of the root disease pathogens. Plant roots become highly 'stressed' when experiencing high temperatures, particularly if there is a large mis-match between the air and root temperature. Root stress slows the development of new roots, resulting in reserves inside the root tissue being `burned up’ during respiration faster than they are accumulated, and stress makes the root system in general more susceptible to disease attack. Keeping a check on nutrient temperature is vital, as is ensuring that air machines are not blasting hot air into the solution and cooking plant roots. Aeration is most effective when cool air is bubbled into a nutrient.
Oxygenation and Nutrient Uptake
Healthy roots supplied with sufficient oxygen are able to absorb nutrient ions selectively from the surrounding solution as required. The metabolic energy which is required to drive this nutrient uptake process is obtained from root respiration using oxygen. In fact there can be a net loss of nutrient ions from a plant’s root system when suffering from a lack of oxygen (anaerobic conditions). Without sufficient oxygen in the root zone, plants are unable to take up mineral nutrients in the concentrations required for maximum growth and development. Maintain maximum levels of dissolved oxygen boosts nutrient uptake by ensuring healthy roots have the energy required to rapidly take up and transport water and mineral ions.
Calcium is one important nutrient ion which has been shown to benefit from high levels of oxygenation in the hydroponic nutrient solution Calcium, unlike the other major nutrients is absorbed mostly by the root growing tips (root apex). The root apex has a large energy requirement for new cell production and growth and is therefore vulnerable to oxygen stress If root tips begin to suffer from a lack of oxygen, a shortage of calcium in the shoot will occur. This shortage of calcium makes the development of calcium disorders such as tip burn and blossom end rot of fruit more likely and severe under oxygen starvation conditions. High levels of oxygenation ensure healthy root tips are able to take the levels of calcium required for new tissue growth and development.
Conclusion
While providing oxygenation with the use of air machines and stones is an excellent method of increasing the dissolved oxygen (DO) levels in a nutrient solution, the temperature of the air intake and nutrient solution must also be managed to ensure oxygen starvation in the root zone does not occur. Pumping hot air into a nutrient not only creates temperature stress in the root zone, it also results in less oxygen carrying capacity in the solution itself - a recipe for root suffocation that will rapidly affect the top portion of the plant as well. Getting oxygenation right means checking both aeration capacity of the equipment being chosen and temperatures in the nutrient and root zone.

Here are a few shots of 8 plants in a RDWC system where the res temp is a constant 66 degrees, the cooling is from a chiller. I never get root rot and I also use H2O2, i buy it from the chemical company as I use a lot. By the way be very sure about your mixing, you can get test strips at pool supply places for H2O2. I hope I have added value and the pix are to show you what can be done with the right knowledge.

Peace

Awesome post man, i was battling a root rot issue in my dwc buckets but got a handle on it running 64-68f res temps and adding FF Microbe Brew and FF Kangaroots. Slime is dying off the roots, white roots are exploding everywhere. I wrapped my buckets in Insulating bubble wrap, covered the black lids with chrome duct tape and throw a 500ml frozen water bottle in them once every 12 hrs. they maintain temperature nicely. i have some frozen 1 liters when it gets hot. and frozen 2 liters if my house catches fire.

wow thanks for all the info that was quite a read

i think these plants have a number of things wrong with them i might just cut my looses i have a nice bubblelicious a a papaya going now


i think its ph in combination with res temps and nutrient def its having trouble growing new roots in the res so it cant take in anymore nutes..

Have to agree with everyone resovoir temperatures are way to high. Question where is high temperature coming from room temp or is it coming from pumps or both? Also if using a air stone in your resovoir it will produce heat coming from compressor cut down on the amount of time it runs.
You can also try freezing some water in plastic pop bottles and putting the in res tank to reduce temperature.
PH will drift up for a few days then down have not seen any nutes that are 100 percent stable even in a drain to waste set up.
I run my ph from 5.5 to 6.1 depending on what stage plant is at lower scale veg higher scale flower.
Your ppms are way to high as everyone is saying back it off below 400 the plants are locked out.
Do not give up win the battles and you will win the war
good luck

res temps are simply bcuz of room temps its 80 in the room so naturally it's going to be 75 in the res i dont have some 100$ res chiller to get the temp down and im not going to drop a 100$ on one just for this grow i just add bottles when needed these northen lights are small and stunted they've had a hard life i don't exspect more then a few gs off them maybe a oz ea at the most they are less then a foot tall im only growing for personal smoke i have a beautiful bubblelicious and a papaya that i'll probably get a qp at the vary least