A Question For An Expert

I have a question about soil and plant nutrients. I currently have two plants in 10 gallon buckets filled with Fox Farm Ocean Forest. I am using Advanced Nutrients Organic Iguana Juice for the flowering cycle, and the plants seem to be very happy.

My buddy is making the final preparations for his outdoor grow but ordered all of the separate nutrients the plants need in the purest form her could find (which involved a lot of bulk purchases). Some of these things include rock potash, bone meal, worm castings, fulvic acid, and sheep shit. While I know my Fox Farm soil is high quality, who is going to come out on top here? Are there any additives I should use in conjunction with my pre-mixed soil? And if so, what? I'd really like to improve on a good thing here, I want my plants to be as happy as possible!

You organics pros out there, I'd love to hear what you have to say on this subject!

Thanks

tough question i think it will boil down to genetics

25% Genetics and 75% skill of the grower. Both of you could be giving them all the nutrients they need. Depending on how well the different materials are mixed, he could have a better soil than yours. that gives him a leg up at the get go. Ocean Forest is not the best. After that, you could easily overtake that advantage just by taking better care of your plants. It's all about the lights too.

One tip about growing in soil,.. be aware of the roots. A big healthy rootball leads to a big healthy plant. 10 gallons is great to finish in, but not to start. You should transplant at least once or twice to get to 10 gallons. If you're not in a hurry, make three or four shallow cuts through the root ball when transplanting. It's like topping the plant, except for the roots. It does extend transplant shock by a day or two, but your roots will be twice as dense during budding when you need the fast uptake. My stalks are thicker than my thumbs at 40 days veg doing that (with some lst & suppercropping). Not doing this will probably have your stalk about as thick as your pinkie. It's all about preparing your plant to grow the biggest fruit. It's not the quickest way, but it's the create the most incredible looking buds way.

As you already know,.. don't over water, and definately don't underwater trying not to overwater.

Also,.. if you're indoors,.. he's going to have more trouble with pests.

+ rep for the rootball advice. I got one plant I was little tougher on the root ball with when it came time to transplant I think. The stalk is biger than the others and it bothered me that the others are not as big. I was worried about hermies if I stress the roots. Any problems?


edit:i must spread the rep around. I prob repped you for the avatar.

Siddhartha..... + rep.... Solid info.... You are completely correct about starting in smaller containers (first) like Dixie Cups, Peat Cups...etc... then working up progressively in size. The prevents overwatering and encourages proper growth.
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Watering from the bottom also helps, this encourages roots to grow down & out in the quest for food & water....
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The worst two things you can do early on - too much watering & too much feeding....
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Mary only spreads her roots as far as necessary to obtain a good supply of food & water... Frequent feedings & waterings from the surface, result in shallow underdeveloped rootballs......
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Bigger rootballs equal better built plants, able to withstand draught, wind, heavy rain, and hold more weight in buddage...... I know really only the last one applies to indoor, but the others make all the difference outdoors.....
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Roughing up those roots abit, toughens them up and does increase their size........ it also helps to add benefical bacteria & fungi to the rootzone..... good products are Super Plant Tonic (Ebay), Myco Magic, Sub-Culture, and Plant Success (hydro stores)
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These benefical bacteria & fungi (I like to call micro-beasties) protect your rootball, breakdown insoluble NPK & feed it to Mary and generally improve your soil & your plants...... it's a win / win thing......
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real....Organic.....
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Thanks for the reps guys.

Yeah... too many growers ignore their roots and only pay attention when there are problems like rot or they're so root bound they're growing out of the holes in the bottom of the pot.

If you've ever been in a nursery when they're transplanting something, you'll see them pull the plant out of the pot with one hand and make a few lightening quick slices with a box cutter or something in the other hand,.. a few times down the sides and once or twice across the bottom. The roots will branch out behind the cuts and become very dense/bushy.

If you're not growing organically here's a neat trick: Get some copper sulfate and apply to the inside of your grow container. In concentrated forms it's an herbicide and kills roots. If you go to the hardware store, you can get a product for putting in your sewer line, to kill roots that have broken into your sewer pipe. Mix it into some latex paint as concentrated as you can. After it's applied to the inside of the grow container and dried, you can plant in it. When the roots reach out and hit the container wall they'll stop growing, and branch out. They self prune.

I wish I could find the site, but I saw a guy do it to his MJ,.. when he was ready to transplant he pulled the plant out of the pot, and there's nothing but dirt without the usual skin of roots. If you looked close, you could see just the tips scattered around, almost looking like tiny pieces of perlite. Then he shook the dirt off a bit, and underneath was a massive thick root ball. He transplants into a pot without the paint for flowering.

I'm organic so I do it the ol' fashioned way, with a razor blade. But you have to make sure to plan a couple or three transplants into the grow. I've never heard of a hermie develop from pruning roots. But,.. I suppose if other factors had stressed to the point of going hermie, it could be the final straw. Only because for the first day the plant suddenly as fewer root tips.

SID forgot to mention that CuSO4 is a very strong irritant. I highly suggest handling this chemical with caution, use gloves and goggles if you are the clumsy type. I say this because I once suggested that this dude mix sum CuSO4 w lime and DIH2O and he did it but he got that shit all over his skin and in his eyes and he was not happy.

Siddhartha..... The stuff you speak of is a very effective nursery product, called Spinout, here's a link to the company that makes it :
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http://www.sepro.com/default.php?page=spinout
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Any decent nursery should stock it.
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Awesome,.. thanks for the link Ohsogreen,.. I had no idea that was readily available.

Yes.. Dr. Greene is right. Thanks for that. I deal with a lot harsher chemicals than cupric sulfate daily and wasn't thinking. Anyone mixing any chemicals/fertilizers should be wearing gloves and a dust mask at minimum.

I have a stupid newb question. How do you give reps? i've been looking for 30 minutes.

I remember fdd had a thread from a while back entitled "it's all bullshit". That ended up being quite a discussion on nutes and soil and everything else in between. His message is mostly - it doesn't need to be complicated. keeping it simple is good. Good luck. Cheers!

I have a stupid newb question. How do you give reps? i've been looking for 30 minutes.



Here ya go!!!

Fdd is 100% right about it's all bullshit, in the sense that you really can grow excellent plants without doing anything special. He seems to have a lot of space though. If he considered a 3 foot cubed box, I might think he would say, you could up the yield slightly if you do the right extra things. But again, simple is best. For me, the way I make huge rootballs will not be any or much different in yield than using the copper sulfate. It just takes a few minutes extra effort, but it's still simple enough for me.

Siddhartha said:

Fdd is 100% right about it's all bullshit, in the sense that you really can grow excellent plants without doing anything special. He seems to have a lot of space though. If he considered a 3 foot cubed box, I might think he would say, you could up the yield slightly if you do the right extra things. But again, simple is best. For me, the way I make huge rootballs will not be any or much different in yield than using the copper sulfate. It just takes a few minutes extra effort, but it's still simple enough for me.

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Ocean Forest is kinda "hot" I started using it and it turned to mud. It is great dont get me wrong. However I grow in 5 gallon buckets and I use a 6.1.1 ratio 6 parts Big and Chunky perlite, 1 part Ocean Forest and 1 part bcuzz coco. This is working great. Ocean forest holds alot of water by itself. It compacts alot also... i m h o