Aeroflo 60 + 1K + Hydrohut + CO2 Help Needed

I have an Aeroflo 60 with a 50 gal res. that I built a Hydrohut type canopy over. I have a 1K HPS in a Sun System Sealed hood with pass through vents and fan. I have a homebuilt CO2 Sensor/Controller that I currently have set at 400ppm. My gas cycles on for 30 seconds every 7 minutes at 400 ppm and on every 6 minutes at 1000 ppm. The temp is stable at around 80F when the lights are on and lowest temp at lights off is around 55F. I have 40 clones fresh out of the ez-clone that i put in the box with GH 3-part mixed Transition to bloom with FloraBlend and Floralicious plus.

My first question is; What is the recommended CO2 setting for clones moved right to flower.

Second -- since i know the CO2 will make the plants deplete nutrients do I change my nutrients more often -- I think in formulating this question i found the answer and stumbled on another one -- if I get one of those TDS meters that will tell me how much of my nutrients are still suspended in my solution -- think i did it again.

Third -- How much does the use of CO2 affect yield when its used right?

The Pics are of my setup. The strain is some stuff I used to have my daughter buy for me that i found 1 seed in and in turned out to be a female. That was a year ago. Its GREAT! Without CO2 usually get from 18-28 Gr per plant. The little spots in the pic of the nugs are actually huge crystals glistening in the flash of the cheap 2MP camera im using.

Please advise and an help would be appreciated

Use Co2 mostly in the 2 week until the 7th week. Others run it all the way through flowering. Personal experience will help you dial it in. No need to go over 1500 ppm with co2. Do not run co2 at lights off. No need.

interesting,...
http://www.hydrofarm.com/articles/co2_enrichment.php

DIYer said:

interesting,...
http://www.hydrofarm.com/articles/co2_enrichment.php

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thank you for the link. Very good read. so if what it says is right, then you really only need 600-800ppm to double your growth rate.

Also since you will grow 2x as fast you will use 2x the nutes. So you could either double your nute strength ( i know, don't), double the size of your reservoir or change nutes twice as often. crap

What is the highest you go on your nutes? I am getting conflicting ppm recommendations from everyone i talk to.

vespa8910 said:

I am getting conflicting ppm recommendations from everyone i talk to.

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and you always will, every setup is different, every strain is different. listen to your ladies, go stronger till they tell you to back off.

vespa8910 said:

What is the highest you go on your nutes? I am getting conflicting ppm recommendations from everyone i talk to.

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I don't know. I have never had problems with hard water or scale buildup so I have never invested or looked into any RO, ph, TDS sensors testers or anything. I am not even sure what each of those do except for ph. I went to my local store and asked the guy if there was anything else i needed to buy and practically put the money in his hand to sell me a tds sensor but he wouldn't bite.

He did tell me that the testers only determine the concentration of whatever there is floating in your water, not what is floating in your water. If you are light on nitrogen but there's plenty of other stuff -- it wont alert you to that. so he basically told me don't waste my money.

I figure I should be testing to measure how my nute levels drop to decide when to flush and replenish. Since I am using co2 I know things can go bad real fast and feel like I should be checking something.

I use GH 3part mixed right now Transition to Bloom from the bottle. 10ml/gal each with floralicious plus 1ml/gal and florablend 10 ml/gal. Its pretty dark but I keep it aerated.

This is my fourth cycle through the aeroflo but my first one with the sealed chamber co2 and the 1k. I know from experience the co2 will speed things up so Im keeping it low at from 400-800 ppm.

Monday they looked like this Freshly taken from the ez-clone

Here's an update pic of the babies after 6 days.

Invest in the TDS meter.. It doesn't tell you what specifically is in your res. but it tells you the conductivity of it which is a good indication of mineral content. Its handy if you want to keep your nutrient concentrations constant/consistent for peak performance or just don't want to dump your res every week.

You can recycle the contents of your res for a while simply by topping it off with essentially what you would normally fill it with anyway (though you might have to adjust the dilution rate to reach your target TDS in your res.) Its commonly referred to as the "lucus formula" when you use only "Bloom" and "Micro" through all stages of development at a 2:1 ratio.

You can also add your KoolBloom and what not directly to the res (to boost nutrients during flowering) then maintain by adding the appropriate amount (biased on the ratios used for everything else) to your res top off maintenance formula.

The same batch of GH nutrients can remain in your res for an entire cycle (its what I do) assuming you maintain it correctly and add KoolBloom powder during flowering. (it will work without the KoolBloom but the powdered stuff isn't that expensive and pretty well worth it). I assume by the size of your res the designers of your setup had this sort of nutrient system in mind (bigger is better this way).

I have "hard water" and use the regular nutrients (not the hard water ones) so I never concern myself with trace mineral deficiency (calcium anyway).. I have heard that you might need to add calcium and/or magnesium if your water is "soft", Hummert sells a "cal-mag" product if you run into issues. (I think its an additive for "fruiting" plants).

This makes my life alot easier because there is only 1 drain in my grow room (only 1 res is close to it) and though I never know the exact levels of a given trace mineral, if an issue arises its generally easy to figure it in long term.

Keep in mind you can always apply this method and still do a complete res change once a or twice a month (still beats weekly, and your TDS/nutrient ratios will stay more consistent making it easier to reach/maintain peak performance).

Are you using peroxide or enzymes?

Your Co2 control system is very interesting to me... Please tell me more about it....

Fuck a tds meter!! Fuck any meter with a probe for that matter IMO. It's pretty common knowledge to all those who've over paid for them, that meters with probes shit in 6 months, there designed to, and there expensive to replace. And yes all they tell you is total dissolved solids, not what solids, which makes them even more of a waste if you in fact needed to know such information, not that you do to grow bomb weed.

IMO,.. if you gave two identical n00b growers supplies to grow, and only one of them a tds meter and RO water, the other uses tap, there both going to get to the same conclusion, in the same timeframe, what there plants need added to there respective waters supplies. Tap has some things in it already, so if you're using tap, you'll just have to figure out what the plants have too much of (if anything) and cut back on those things when you add nutes. With RO you start with nothing and add everything. Now i get how some might think thats better but I've seen a many grower using RO show deficiencies, and need to add more and more chemicals. Personally i stopped ever having to add cal/mag once i went tap from RO.

All i use now are these for pH, and this for measuring ppm's above my 350ppm tap. If you can learn to work with your tap water its way better, RO is yet another pain not all growers need to take on. My ladies look healthy all day with tap and not even owning a tds meter. I wish the guy at your hydro store worked in this town, i might actually go to his location with that attitude he had to not let you waste your money.

DIYer said:

Fuck a tds meter!! Fuck any meter with a probe for that matter IMO. It's pretty common knowledge to all those who've over paid for them, that meters with probes shit in 6 months, there designed to, and there expensive to replace. And yes all they tell you is total dissolved solids, not what solids, which makes them even more of a waste if you in fact needed to know such information, not that you do to grow bomb weed..

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There is no disrespect meant here, just sharing an opinion..

I think my TDS meter cost all of $20.. its probes are 2 carbon rods (they conspicuously look like No2 pencil leads).. and their is a calibration adjustment on the side just in case those rods get a little mucked up (or your batteries run low and you don't have spares on hand).

If you have a decent mufti meter you could use it to determine EC (electrical conductivity, the very thing these meters test for).
The probes on my multimeter have never worn out and they have been in contact with alot more crazy crap than an occasional dip in saline solution.

I soak my tester's probes in distilled water when I'm not using them.. its more to just keep them clean (from building up salt deposits).

I respect that you can mix nutrients as labeled and make the necessary adjustments using litmus paper for your testing... However I would argue that there is value in understanding better whats in your res, especially if you are playing around with nutrient concentrations or don't want to change out your nutrients every week... Either way, more information leads to better understanding and more accuracy/control..

I also agree about putting a water softener in your house just for growing... Hell I don't think I would use one for my drinking water either. I don't think many people realize how Inefficient some of those systems are (some of them pump water constantly to clean themselves from what I hear)..

Guile said:

I respect that you can mix nutrients as labeled and make the necessary adjustments using litmus paper for your testing... However I would argue that there is value in understanding better whats in your res, especially if you are playing around with nutrient concentrations or don't want to change out your nutrients every week... Either way, more information leads to better understanding and more accuracy/control..

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you don't make necessary adjustments to nutes using litmus paper,.. those are pH strips only that i linked, used only for testing pH. there easily accurate within .1 less your color blind, they cost a nickel a pop, and are never off calibration, unlike everyones expensive meter at some point

IMO, you mix your nutes based off what the bottle says to start, they put that info on it for a reason, its a good baseline. from there adjust as your plants tell you to, not adjust to what digest on an over priced point at vague meter tells you to, lol

DIYer said:

you don't make necessary adjustments to nutes using litmus paper,.. those are pH strips only that i linked, used only for testing pH. there easily accurate within .1 less your color blind, they cost a nickel a pop, and are never off calibration, unlike everyones expensive meter at some point

IMO, you mix your nutes based off what the bottle says to start, they put that info on it for a reason, its a good baseline. from there adjust as your plants tell you to, not adjust to what digest on an over priced point at vague meter tells you to, lol

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I apologize if I have caused you undue stress by referring to your "PH test strips" as "litmus paper" I assure you there was no harm intended..

I keep test strips and color change test solution around to occasionally verify my results to determine if recalibration is necessary. I fully appreciate their usefulness.. They are all that is required for testing PH... Digital meters are strictly a convenience item, a convenience I would rather not do without..

My current PH meter also cost all of about $20 and it too can be calibrated... I use to own a $40 tester but alas, its probe went bad and cost more than the whole meter I bought to replace it with. I've been using this $20 meter since last spring and its still working fine (on the original set of batteries to boot).. When it fails I will use test strips and color change solution to keep my garden running the way it should until my next $20 meter comes in the mail...

Guile said:

Are you using peroxide or enzymes?

Your Co2 control system is very interesting to me... Please tell me more about it....

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Nope no enzymes or peroxide. I am extremely lucky -- my tap water is all i use.

Thinking back I believe i let the res go for 3 weeks at first. I figure I'm not going to use up 50 gallons of full strength nutes in 2 weeks with fresh out of the cloner clones. So I let them go a little longer. Plus 50 is enough to support 60 plants and I am only using half of those I guess i could go twice as long between changes.

I know i do one full water change at about 3 weeks, then every 2 weeks after until i run florakleen for the last 5-10 days or until the leaves start to lighten but that is without co2.

Last time i used a co2 system i was unprepared for the results and grew my stuff too big for my space and started having humidity problems. That was ten years ago lol.

It was back then i came across a case of these controllers at habitat for humanities and the price was right so i got em. I knew they looked just like the sensors on the high dollar controllers at the grow store so i knew what i wanted to do with it. The best i could do was make a device that would;

- tell me how much co2 was present and what the temperature was
- keep the gas at 1000 ppm
- keep turn on exhaust fan AND cut off gas when it gets too hot

That was this;


regular house thermostat, 24v laptop power supply -- el cheapo multimeter from dollar store -- peice of wood laying around and a punch down block from some old phone equipment to wire it all together.
It just ran 6" muffin fans stripped from server cabinets -- they work and move a lot more air than you think!

the only bad thing is its factory set for 1000 ppm -- i wanted something i could adjust.

I ran across a retired guy who invented something for the military but couldnt tell me what, lol -- really -- and explained what i needed and 2 weeks later -- tada!

Cost me a used laptop in trade but worth it.

The sensor puts out a signal from 0v to 10v representing ppm co2 -- theres a circuit with a relay that turns power on when the signal is less than where the knob is set to and off when it is more. The power goes to a 24v solenoid valve i have hooked to the gas.

secondshift said:

Nope no enzymes or peroxide. I am extremely lucky -- my tap water is all i use.

Thinking back I believe i let the res go for 3 weeks at first. I figure I'm not going to use up 50 gallons of full strength nutes in 2 weeks with fresh out of the cloner clones. So I let them go a little longer. Plus 50 is enough to support 60 plants and I am only using half of those I guess i could go twice as long between changes.

I know i do one full water change at about 3 weeks, then every 2 weeks after until i run florakleen for the last 5-10 days or until the leaves start to lighten but that is without co2.

Last time i used a co2 system i was unprepared for the results and grew my stuff too big for my space and started having humidity problems. That was ten years ago lol.

It was back then i came across a case of these controllers at habitat for humanities and the price was right so i got em. I knew they looked just like the sensors on the high dollar controllers at the grow store so i knew what i wanted to do with it. The best i could do was make a device that would;

- tell me how much co2 was present and what the temperature was
- keep the gas at 1000 ppm
- keep turn on exhaust fan AND cut off gas when it gets too hot

That was this;
View attachment 2035728

regular house thermostat, 24v laptop power supply -- el cheapo multimeter from dollar store -- peice of wood laying around and a punch down block from some old phone equipment to wire it all together.
It just ran 6" muffin fans stripped from server cabinets -- they work and move a lot more air than you think!

the only bad thing is its factory set for 1000 ppm -- i wanted something i could adjust.

I ran across a retired guy who invented something for the military but couldnt tell me what, lol -- really -- and explained what i needed and 2 weeks later -- tada!
View attachment 2035761
Cost me a used laptop in trade but worth it.

The sensor puts out a signal from 0v to 10v representing ppm co2 -- theres a circuit with a relay that turns power on when the signal is less than where the knob is set to and off when it is more. The power goes to a 24v solenoid valve i have hooked to the gas.

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You might want to look into peroxide, its pretty cheap at the pool supply places and you just add a little daily (during your regular maintenance).

I get 27% at my pool shop for around $15-20 a gallon (I think), If you start with 2 cups in your fresh 50 gal res you would add 70ml a day for maintenance, so a gallon could last you nearly 2 months (not bad @ $10 a month).
Besides if you are going to Co2 enrich for the foliage you might as well o2 enrich for the roots (right?). It should also make running the "Lucas formula" long term more feasible). I'm guessing your rotations aren't much more than 2 months apart anyway? I would just run the same nutrients the whole time starting at around 800-1000ppm and bring it up gradually over the coarse of the next 4-6 weeks (I shoot for 1400-1600ppm, though some plants will happily take well over 2000ppm, especially using Co2) The last week of flowering you might want to siphon off half (or more) of your res contents and replace with water to achieve 800ppm or less (I save as much as possible to use again, you can get 5 gallon buckets/water jugs for pretty short money). The nice part is, if it all works out well you have that 800ppm solution to start your next cycle with... Keep in mind you might need that cal-mag product mentioned earlier at some point (you'll see tke signs).

So there is no chance of obtaining a similar Co2 rig?

Has anyone ever done a side by side comparison, peroxide vs no peroxide? I'd really like to see if it honestly makes any difference. Some think it does, but so many start using it early in there growing and just get better at other aspects of growing next grow, and attribute it to some additive they over paid for.

DIYer said:

Has anyone ever done a side by side comparison, peroxide vs no peroxide? I'd really like to see if it honestly makes any difference. Some think it does, but so many start using it early in there growing and just get better at other aspects of growing next grow, and attribute it to some additive they over paid for.

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You might have a point... I started without and had a terrible time keeping me res clean.. Peroxide helped me out alot so I stuck with it... I have read that it makes more oxygen available to the roots too (beyond keeping algae/mold at bay).

I have switched to enzymes whenever i worried that peroxide would react with whatever I was adding to my nutrients but I never go without one or the other (they seem like a reasonable PM measure to me)..

Guile said:

You might want to look into peroxide, its pretty cheap at the pool supply places and you just add a little daily (during your regular maintenance).

I get 27% at my pool shop for around $15-20 a gallon (I think), If you start with 2 cups in your fresh 50 gal res you would add 70ml a day for maintenance, so a gallon could last you nearly 2 months (not bad @ $10 a month).
Besides if you are going to Co2 enrich for the foliage you might as well o2 enrich for the roots (right?). It should also make running the "Lucas formula" long term more feasible). I'm guessing your rotations aren't much more than 2 months apart anyway? I would just run the same nutrients the whole time starting at around 800-1000ppm and bring it up gradually over the coarse of the next 4-6 weeks (I shoot for 1400-1600ppm, though some plants will happily take well over 2000ppm, especially using Co2) The last week of flowering you might want to siphon off half (or more) of your res contents and replace with water to achieve 800ppm or less (I save as much as possible to use again, you can get 5 gallon buckets/water jugs for pretty short money). The nice part is, if it all works out well you have that 800ppm solution to start your next cycle with... Keep in mind you might need that cal-mag product mentioned earlier at some point (you'll see tke signs).

So there is no chance of obtaining a similar Co2 rig?

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I thought you were supposed to dump everything old, flush with clean tap water and mix all new nutrients at every water change?

I'm not quite sure what the Lucas formula is.

As far as 'enrichment' I am not sure that the roots actually use the oxygen. I think they more benefit from being in an environment that is rich in oxygen to prevent rot..

I could show you how to build one of the thing i wired up on the wood. I would have to get in touch with the guy that built my little grey box to get the schematic. He gave me a copy but i lost it. Its pretty simple. Ill see what I can do. You can get the sensors on ebay for around a c-note.

I just realized I made a critical error. I forgot to double space my plants. I never trim anything. I just let it go til its done. But now that i am running gas -- its getting cramped quickly. Cant move them cause the roots are grown together. Dammit. Everything will grow out okay but I will have a few sickly ones if I dont trim anything. What are your views on trimming. How much does trimming some of the larger sun leaves affect the process.

...a LOT of people trim, and i will pull a dry brown leaf, but IMO leaves are like solar collectors, take one away you just lowered the total output you're going to get. Some justify trimming to get light to the lower leaves, not me, because if you don't have enough light hitting the lower leaves, you don't have enough light. Two 400 watt lights are always better then one 800 too, meaning the more light sources, the less shadows and the better your plants will grow.

secondshift said:

I thought you were supposed to dump everything old, flush with clean tap water and mix all new nutrients at every water change?

I'm not quite sure what the Lucas formula is.

As far as 'enrichment' I am not sure that the roots actually use the oxygen. I think they more benefit from being in an environment that is rich in oxygen to prevent rot..

I could show you how to build one of the thing i wired up on the wood. I would have to get in touch with the guy that built my little grey box to get the schematic. He gave me a copy but i lost it. Its pretty simple. Ill see what I can do. You can get the sensors on ebay for around a c-note.

I just realized I made a critical error. I forgot to double space my plants. I never trim anything. I just let it go til its done. But now that i am running gas -- its getting cramped quickly. Cant move them cause the roots are grown together. Dammit. Everything will grow out okay but I will have a few sickly ones if I dont trim anything. What are your views on trimming. How much does trimming some of the larger sun leaves affect the process.

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Its my understanding that the more often you can afford to change your reservoir the better.. I started out with weekly changing (bought distilled water for it too).

I have become cheap and lazy...... I have recycled nutrients the way I described above through 2 full 8 week cycles (I believe it could go further but once every 4 months seems minimalistic enough for me). I use fairly large reservoirs (stock tanks actually) so changing out half the water is still a pain, but atleast I know that even whatever I am running lowest in is less than half way there (keep in mind you are adding nutrients every day while maintaining your res).

Its my understanding that the advantage of say aeronautics or even Ebb&Flow over say DWC or NFT is the amount of oxygen the roots have available to them. I honestly have not studied DWC side by side with Ebb&Flow but I have grown with both and i just favor Ebb&Flow overall (Only in small part because I believe roots prefer it too).

What should I be looking for in particular when it comes to finding a Co2 meter like yours?

My views on trimming might not be popular... I am a strong believer in trimming plants to obtain the best light efficacy. I transplant clones into a small flood table I have in my veg room (for about a week) as soon as they begin taking off I top them above the second node if they tend to grow too tall or I trim lower branches as they show up (Popsicle trim) if its a strain that trends to grow low (or branchy). I have no problem with trimming up to about half way through flowering. As far as removing leaves go I believe you should only remove leaves that are completely shaded or are completely shading another plants growing tip...

DIYer said:

...a LOT of people trim, and i will pull a dry brown leaf, but IMO leaves are like solar collectors, take one away you just lowered the total output you're going to get. Some justify trimming to get light to the lower leaves, not me, because if you don't have enough light hitting the lower leaves, you don't have enough light. Two 400 watt lights are always better then one 800 too, meaning the more light sources, the less shadows and the better your plants will grow.

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I have to agree, that's some pretty sound advice.. If you are going to remove foliage from an artificially lit plant work from the bottom up (not the top down) Light defuses pretty quickly from its source, the top of your plant is closest to the light source and are therefore the most efficient solar collectors on the plant (the further away from the light the less efficient they become). Four 250's put out a bit less light than a single 1000 but you will get better overall performance from the more even light distribution of the smaller bulbs (brings more leaves/solar panels closer to peak efficacy)