African Sativas Vs. Asian Sativas

I've read quite a bit about what people and seed companies have to say about the effects of Malawi and Thai sativas, and I know there has to be a lot of variation among strains even within the two enormous continents. For example, strains from south, north or central Africa must have their differences as well as strains from Thailand, Viet Nam and Laos (etc.). All information seems to point to a pretty intense psychedelic high from both continents, but can any of the experts out there talk generally about the differences they've found most noteworthy? I'm specifically interested in the differences of their effects. Is one more racy or psychedelic than the other? Is one more euphoric, more creative, more happy/smiley? You get the idea.

What inspired me to ask was not only the fact that I've found no threads on any forum discussing this, but I recently ordered the Ace Golden Tiger from Sea of Seeds. They just wrote to tell me they are sold out of it and asked if I would like to order different seeds. I live in the Caribbean and am tempted by another Ace selection, Double Thai, but am strongly considering their Malawi. I'm open to other strains from other companies, but really hope this generates some interesting and useful conversation from all of you.

Thanks!

I forgot to mention that I've never tried an African or Thai (or any Asian) strain, but many people also talk about "classic" Thai characteristics, not only about the plant but about the high. Can anyone shed light on that? Is there a "classic" quality to a Malawi (or other African) strain? Thanks again!

toro, I have recently grown Afropips "Malawi Gold"; Thai and Nepalese sativas in the past...That said, what is it you want to know? How to grow? Indoor/Outdoor? Smoke report? Diverse growth characteristics?

If you are asking for collective narcism to help you select a strain I can't help...If you are in The Caribbean I can tell you that a landrace is a landrace; assuming you know what I mean...Think Lamb's Bread...FWIW

Thanks for the reply, NG. What I'd like to know are opinions on the differences between the effects--the high--of African sativa strains such as Malawi and Asian sativas such as Thai strains. I know both seem to be routinely described as psychedelic, which I like, but there have to be other differences between them (again, the actual high). As I asked, does one induce more euphoria, paranoia, "raciness," creativity, focus, etc, than the other? Is one more psychedelic than the other?

I know there are multiple strains from both continents, so my question is not exactly fair, I realize. I just thought people might have opinions on how the characteristics of the high differ between them.

toro, The effects you are looking for are in the grow technique; the resin production and your harvest timing more so than the genetics...It is up to the grower to express the genetic traits...You get that with experience...Pick one...Buy a book on Marijuana Horticulture...Get your hands dirty...Most importantly...Have fun learning...FWIW

Africa and Asia have too many microclimates to make an educated guess as to what would be best for you. I would recommend you buy and African x Asian hybrid and inbreed your own line or find some Jamaican and be happy with that.

Okay, well, NG, I do like your footnote quote, but I'm going to have to disagree with you unless I misunderstand you.

I'm a grower of very little experience, true, but I did my homework before my first grow and read the two presently most popular books on cultivation (Cervantes and the Elite one). I know their popularity doesn't deem them the best books, but I learned a lot from them. I hope to gain the same from other recommended books. The results of my first grow were three different strains (genetics) that were all grown in the same environment in the same organic soils under the same bright sun. The effects I get from smoking each of them is very distinct. Moreover, the three plants were all harvested and cured in the same way. But you say,

"The effects you are looking for are in the grow edtechnique; the resin production and your harvest timing more so than the genetics"

By that logic, my three genetically different plants should have produced very little variation in their effects. Yet they did. Again, their growing, harvesting and curing techniques were also equal. The only variable here (ignoring quantum mechanics just for now) was their genetic make-up. So my limited experience has taught me that genetics play a pretty crucial role in the effects (the high).

I'm not asking for a seed recommendation, nor am I asking advice on what strains I should cross for my climate. I really simply want to know from people who have smoked both a landrace (or damn close) Thai sativa and a landrace (or damn close) Malawi sativa; do you recollect any noteworthy distinctions between their effects (highs)? Do you prefer one over the other and why?

Thanks, and apologies for somehow not being able to communicate my questions effectively.

Overwhelming support for either one would be a fluke. Adjust your assumptions to reflect the superiority of hybrids.

toronjadeoro said:

Thanks for the reply, NG. What I'd like to know are opinions on the differences between the effects--the high--of African sativa strains such as Malawi and Asian sativas such as Thai strains. I know both seem to be routinely described as psychedelic, which I like, but there have to be other differences between them (again, the actual high). As I asked, does one induce more euphoria, paranoia, "raciness," creativity, focus, etc, than the other? Is one more psychedelic than the other?

I know there are multiple strains from both continents, so my question is not exactly fair, I realize. I just thought people might have opinions on how the characteristics of the high differ between them.

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Never smoked a Malawi, have no comment on it.

But I have both grown and smoked a pure Thai sativa, and I'll say growing the plant indoors was unsatisfying. The plant had an absolutely wonderful flavor that tasted just like juicy fruit gum. Unfortunately, the grow was unsatisfactory in just about every other way: Stretchy plant with low yield, ridiculously long flowering time, hermies, not particularly potent, etc. Given fairly limited space, I wouldn't grow this again.

In general, a LOT of this is subjective. You can get different effects from the SAME PLANT, depending on what part of the plant, when its harvested, how much you smoke, how you smoke it, your state of mind, tolerance, etc. Different people can have fairly dramatically different subjective effects from the same strain. So its probably a mistake to try and generalize effects of different landraces without individual comparison.

Again, speaking in general, there are strain-specific differences when it comes down to cannabinoids. For example THCV (which is found in African genetics, among others) is supposed to be more "psychedelic" than some of the other cannabinoids. What you're describing here (different effects due to different strains/geographies) might be termed cannabis "chemotype". See here from the American Journal of Botany June 2003 :

http://www.amjbot.org/content/91/6/966.full

The cannabinoid content of different strains of Cannabis is associated with their geographic origins. Extracts of Cannabis indica (“Indian hemp”) were commonly used in Western medicine, while the common hemp of Europe was generally regarded as unsuitable for medicinal use (Winek, 1977&#8659. Small and Beckstead (1973a⇓, b&#8659 observed that most strains in their collection that produced high levels of THC originated from latitudes south of 30°N. They detected elevated levels of a cannabinoid presumed to be cannabigerol monomethylether (CBGM) in strains from northeast Asia. High levels of THCV were reported in Cannabis strains from southern Africa, India, Nepal, and eastern Asia (Merkus, 1971⇓; Fetterman and Turner, 1972⇓; Turner et al., 1973⇓; Boucher et al., 1974⇓; Baker et al., 1980&#8659.

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This image is partly obscured by the author, but you can get some sort of "nuts and bolts" sense of what strains have what cannabinoids, and what this might mean here, including specific cannabinoids in Thai and African strains:

http://www.alpha-cat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Chemo-type-kaart-Alpha-CAT1.pdf

Right on, Jogro. That was a great answer and great information. Much appreciated.

toronjadeoro said:

Okay, well, NG, I do like your footnote quote, but I'm going to have to disagree with you unless I misunderstand you.

I'm a grower of very little experience, true, but I did my homework before my first grow and read the two presently most popular books on cultivation (Cervantes and the Elite one). I know their popularity doesn't deem them the best books, but I learned a lot from them. I hope to gain the same from other recommended books. The results of my first grow were three different strains (genetics) that were all grown in the same environment in the same organic soils under the same bright sun. The effects I get from smoking each of them is very distinct. Moreover, the three plants were all harvested and cured in the same way. But you say,

"The effects you are looking for are in the grow edtechnique; the resin production and your harvest timing more so than the genetics"

By that logic, my three genetically different plants should have produced very little variation in their effects. Yet they did. Again, their growing, harvesting and curing techniques were also equal. The only variable here (ignoring quantum mechanics just for now) was their genetic make-up. So my limited experience has taught me that genetics play a pretty crucial role in the effects (the high).

I'm not asking for a seed recommendation, nor am I asking advice on what strains I should cross for my climate. I really simply want to know from people who have smoked both a landrace (or damn close) Thai sativa and a landrace (or damn close) Malawi sativa; do you recollect any noteworthy distinctions between their effects (highs)? Do you prefer one over the other and why?

Thanks, and apologies for somehow not being able to communicate my questions effectively.

Click to expand...

Hello toro, I am not discriminating enough to remember the medicating effect and difference in stone. I do keep accurate grow journals though...I remember the Malawi (my most recent experience) being overwhelmingly psycho-active mentally stimulating then stupefying...Physically I was borderline incapacitated for about 3hrs (?)...You might want to "Google" leafly.com A web site that outlines medicating effect of some 500 different strains...I apologize if what I wrote was interpreted as condescending...Not at all my intention...I indoor, soil (90% organic) grow to other people's specific requests...Some folks want an exhilarating cerebral experience others a more somatic medicating experience. I try to keep a predominantly indica and predominantly sativa strain in propagation, vegetation and flower all the time. The sativas require a method of topping to produce four size equal, manegable colas and then almost daily bondage adjustment through flowering cycle..I have two different harvest times for each strain. Timing is based on observation of trichome "withering" (changing color from clearish white to orangish red) a qualitative determination on my part. Check your reference material here...My first harvest marker is at about 50% clear/white to orange/red and the again about 75-80% ratio. The earlier collection is generally (qualitatively) more cerebral; the later more somatic...Hope this helps...I am much better with quantitative discussion than I am qualitative...FWIW...The effects are different strain to strain and sometimes plant to plant...The clones sometimes express differently from the mother. That may be stress dependent...Take this only as a statistical sample of one...And, tongue in cheek, the advice here is only worth what you pay for it...All the best...The only way to know is to grow...Trust yourself...

toronjadeoro said:

Right on, Jogro. That was a great answer and great information. Much appreciated.

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You're welcome.

Incidentally, although some people think that grow technique is a major determinant of final cannabinoid ratios, I for one don't believe its true.

Yes, to some extent flowering time, temperatures, light spectrum, and other grow conditions can affect final cannabinoid content and ratios, but I don't think there are formulaic ways to grow to manipulate these ratios in a predictable way. For example, so far as I know, there is no way to selectively increase THCV content in relation to the other cannabinoids.

Ultimately, most of the "chemotype" differences are going to come down to genetics. If you want THCV or CBD (for example) your best bet is just to start with strains that create those cannabinoids.

Jogro said:

You're welcome.

Incidentally, although some people think that grow technique is a major determinant of final cannabinoid ratios, I for one don't believe its true.

Yes, to some extent flowering time, temperatures, light spectrum, and other grow conditions can affect final cannabinoid content and ratios, but I don't think there are formulaic ways to grow to manipulate these ratios in a predictable way. For example, so far as I know, there is no way to selectively increase THCV content in relation to the other cannabinoids.

Ultimately, most of the "chemotype" differences are going to come down to genetics. If you want THCV or CBD (for example) your best bet is just to start with strains that create those cannabinoids.

Click to expand...

Jogro, I agree, the cannabinoid ratios are genetically fixed...My focus is on maximizing root structure and enhancing nutrient uptake to include aggressive foliar supplementation in veg and pre-flower...I want to provide the conditions to promote maximum resin production to make the most of those ratios. Lights 20/4, I find root development better (visual qualification; not by analysis) with a dark period during veg...My veg periods are (usually) long even for sativas, eight weeks four of which are in seven gallon smart pots...Carefully, individually, fert each plant to the edge of leaf claw...Top usually at fourth inter node to two then four colas for most sativas; and again to eight for indicas and some sativas once I understand the strain all in veg...Switch to 18/6 for one week 14/10 two weeks then 12/12 through harvest...That is the condensed version...FWIW

I do not know why the medicating effects differ with protracting the flowering time...With my last sativa, Y Griega, there was/is a two week time interval plant to plant not within the same plant (never harvested that way) with my visual determination that withering had advanced from about 50% to about 75%...My peeps can tell the difference and so can I...Wish I was better with descriptive (subjective) adjectives to explain.

Thanks for the continued elaboration, NG and Jogro. This has been really enlightening for me and I hope for others.

I 've used leafly.com and found it immensely helpful--so easy to navigate. I'm just at a point now in my experimentation where I know I do not like the couch-locking, stupidity-inducing effects of indicas (well, that's how it affects me personally); and I want to get a sense of what a very dominant if not pure sativa is like. I hope to eventually experiment with different African and Asian strains. Will probably grow a Thai first (was hoping for Golden Tiger, but now likely Green Haze X Thai ACE) and next try Malawi. Energy, focus and creativity are what I look for in a smoke, but it's really hard for me to turn down anything that promises to be psychedelic.

There's no holy grail I know of to fulfill it all, but I'm looking forward to one day rounding everything down to a few preferred strains. With your input, now I can dial in my specs more knowledgeably. Cheers!

I'd agree more or less, exotic long term land race sativas, don't do very well indoors. Once you grow a number of them and compare them to other things you'll figure that out.

So Natural Gas, is it just my imagination or are you one of those who does awhole lot of reading but very little growing?
You seem to fit the profile of having alot of "almost" right information that becomes so much clearer when you grow and not just read.

Ng just shared tons of experience althor.

Hello althor, Imagination is a wonderful thing...I believe everyone should have one...Glad to read you are working on yours.

toron,
I would try the Malawi because of the THCV. It is said to be very psychoactive of all the THC canninoids. It is 14 weeks for good bud development but can go longer and you might be able to harvest half the plant and get the second lower branches 2-3 weeks later for a second harvest. The THCV is what interests me the most in any plant I would want to cross to make a hybrid. Someone on this site posted about the Malawi he got and was very happy with the smoke. He said it was one of the best he has ever tried and wished he could have tons of it around. Also because you are in the carribean you get all kinds of UVB light in that intense sunlight if you decide to go outside.
Both would perform well in your area but the effects of the malawi have interested me the most. If indoor you might want to consider a different strain that is more manageable like C-99 or another plant that won't get huge indoors or take as long. Right now I have chocolope from DNA that is thai X 2 (Chocolate thai X highland thai X afghani.) or something like that. It is said to induce fits of paranoia and trippyness. Much rather have something that is non paranoia but trippy. Always wanted to try crossing burmese with malawi for the best effect because burmese is said to be anti-anexity weed. It is also a sativa.
Hope that helps.
P.S. There was a weed years ago(late 70's) that was called Black African Magic supposedly grown by pigmy farmers in Africa that was just incredible weed and some of the strongest people had ever smoked. Others have wriiten about it and a friend told me how he and his buddy would take it from his older brother and get higher than he had ever been. That strain probably was an African strain that contained THCV but who knows if anything else was mixed with it. Said he remember's it being mostly shake and almost black in color. I know that some of the biggest breeders like DJ, Reeferman, Nevil, ect. have gone to africa in search of that specific variety to no avail. Did read something about Reeferman finding seeds of the strain and he did list it a while back before he disappeared.

Here is just a few things people have said about the Black African Magic weed from Africa.
"After some travelling trough central-Africa I came across some premium weed simply called ''black juju'' meaning black voodoo/magic.
This shit made me go maddd :icon_dizzy: trippiest high I've ever experienced for sure!"
He told me they call it juju ojii on the streets, quick Igbo lessons: juju means magic and oji means black.
The strain did not originate from that region, it was brought in from Tanzania according to him.
After a while of smoking and talking we got to the Black Magic.
''OMFG'' were literally the first words that fell out my mouth.

The buds had like a black/blueish hue around it.
The shit scared me a little bit it had like, an aura? lol
seriously tho, it had some nice pigmentation going on on the buds.
The leaves were very dark blue steadily darkening to black on the tips of the leaves. YEAH BLUE not purple!!
The buds smelled like colonels Sander's secret mix of herbs and spices. A very pungent smell.

"U got pretty lucky man,even DJ short hasnt been able to aquire seeds of this strain."

"While in SA earlier this year i heard a lot about a strain called Congo black some said it was too psychoactive, far stronger than durban or swazi, everyone i talked to gave a similar description as you. Congo and Tanzania are right next to each other also. Hope this helps."
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/black-african-seeds.16608/

around 87 or so I smoked some stuff called African black ganji. It was deep dark purple and I sat on a couch for a nice glass bong hit. I literally caughed for a half an hour, then I finished the bowl hit and passed out where I fell on the floor. I woke up the next morning wondering what happened.

This herb is the strongest ever. Although I have only smoked the Black Magic a very limited number of times, and I've never had more than a joint of my own, I feel it needs mention. I did once get to see a bag of this herb that belonged to someone else. It looked like rotted, black leaf, some leaves intact but crumpled, plus a powdery black shake. It had no particular odor other than sweet spicy moldy hay, and rolled best into thin pinjoints.
The smoke was slightly harsh, but with a very deep, rich flavor. I also recall that it produced lots of white smoke. Anyhow, this stuff was dangerous! I often questioned if it was truly pure herb. I have, however, sampled the same product from different sources at different times, all with the same story.
It was equatorial Black African, the supposed herb of some tribe, Pygmy group, or another equally incredible origin! It was likely an indigenous Central African herb. One pinjoint between three or four people was more than adequate. This was truly the most devastating and consciously inebriating herb I have ever smoked.
I do not recall ever passing out or losing consciousness, but I did have to let go in order to come back . This stuff alone could cause one to reach 3.5 pluses on the Shulgin psychedelic rating scale!http://cannabisculture.com/articles/4280.html

I tried to find the review by DJ Short but it pretty much said the same thing just above. Devastating weed that lasted a really long time and very psycodelic.
Hope that helps.