Alfalfa Tea

H

HtotheD

Member
Hello:

I've recently started jumping out of the chemical line nutes and into brewing my own teas and organics. Recently meaning yesterday. I would love a little advice on my choices and maybe to have someone fill in the blanks.

I'm using Just Right Xtra Potting Mix and growing indoors.

I've decided to brew Alfalfa Tea (fermented) due to the amazing things I've read about it. It has a NPK ratio of about: [FONT=&quot]Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 % Potassium .75 - 3.5 % Phosphorus .3 - .7% . I've also made a worm casting tea which has lower N, high P and moderate K. This is brewed with wormcastings and molasses.

I'm worried I have too much N when it's time to switch over to flowering and was wondering what to switch to as a feed. I've been reading that normally the soil has what it needs but wanted to ask around.

Thoughts??

[/FONT]
 
Mazar i Shariff

Mazar i Shariff

Active Member
That's awesome bro! Props to making that bold move. I made the switch from chemical to 95% all organic, myself. I have seen a huge difference, from beautiful lush vegging plants with no burnt leaf tips, no purple stems, no defeciencies, all the way to more potent, better tasting buds that are reaching amazing potential. I use a lot of Advanced Nutrients products, and I noticed their main organic sources used are Fish Emulsions, Earthworm Castings, Volcanic Ashes, Alfalfa, Yucca, Fermented Composts, ... Since you already have the earthworm (which is absolutely great) and alfalfa taken care of, I would look into all the various raw materials that I could compost such as egg shells, avacado peels, seafood bones & shells, and start composting them in a tumble bucket til they are broken down. From there you can create your mixture with that and leave it in a large barrel to ferment for a week or so, and then I would strain & filter it into another barrel before feeding to your plants. But talk about a rich, natural, & cheap source! I'm not sure how you could do volcanic ashes or others properly yourself, you'd have to do a lil more reading up on that. But I think you're def heading in the right direction! Worst case scenario, you may have to buy a few organic compounds to add to what you're brewing, but regardless you'll save money and be much better off by staying away from those harsh & potent synthetics!

My Nutrient Closet:
-Adv Nutrients Organic Iguana Juice Grow
-Adv Nutrients Organic Grandma Enggy's Humic Acid
-Adv Nutrients Organic Grandma Enggy's Fulvic Acid
-Adv Nutrients Organic B Complex
-Adv Nutrients Organic Nirvana
-Adv Nutrients Organic MotherEarth Super Bloom Tea
-Adv Nutrients Organic Voodoo Juice
-Adv Nutrients Organic Bud Candy
-Adv Nutrients Organic Final Phase
-Tropical Organics Banana Extract
-Botanicare SWEET Organic Carbo (Berry, Grape, & Citrus flavors)
-Botanicare Organic Cal-Mag
-Botanicare Organic Silica Blast
-Roots Organic OregonISM XL Beneficial Bacteria w/ Yucca, Kelp, Alfalfa, & H-2
-Espoma Organic Garden Lime (Raises/Neutralizes PH to 7) & Organic Soil Acidifier (if PH ever gets too high which is rare with my water source)
-Lots of EcoSmart Organic Insecticide
-Just ordered some Adv Nutrients Kushie Kush, as well!
 
carokann

carokann

Active Member
why do i think that these expensive bottles are nothing more than strong compost tea's in a bottle. that is why it says to mix only a little with a gallon of water? but i dunno, im sceptical of anything with a fancy label and big pricetag.
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
carokann said:
why do i think that these expensive bottles are nothing more than strong compost tea's in a bottle. that is why it says to mix only a little with a gallon of water? but i dunno, im sceptical of anything with a fancy label and big pricetag.
Click to expand...
Be careful, the brand name fanboys get punk mouthed when their miracle products are questioned.
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
HtotheD said:
Hello:

I've recently started jumping out of the chemical line nutes and into brewing my own teas and organics. Recently meaning yesterday. I would love a little advice on my choices and maybe to have someone fill in the blanks.

I'm using Just Right Xtra Potting Mix and growing indoors.

I've decided to brew Alfalfa Tea (fermented) due to the amazing things I've read about it. It has a NPK ratio of about: [FONT=&quot]Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 % Potassium .75 - 3.5 % Phosphorus .3 - .7% . I've also made a worm casting tea which has lower N, high P and moderate K. This is brewed with wormcastings and molasses.

I'm worried I have too much N when it's time to switch over to flowering and was wondering what to switch to as a feed. I've been reading that normally the soil has what it needs but wanted to ask around.

Thoughts??

[/FONT]
Click to expand...
First, congratulations on getting away from the chemical marketing game. Organic growing is like being pregnant; there's no such thing as a little pregnant. Using salt based chemicals will ruin the living soil you're creating with organics.

I'm not familiar with your potting soil. Does it have a nutrient package or is it just plain potting soil? I ask because most organic grows, indoor and outdoor, have all the necessary nutrients in the grow medium. That's the reason they don't require nutrient supplements and also why many organic growers prefer mixing their own grow mediums. AACT (actively aerated compost teas) drench and foliar applications provide little to no nutritional supplements. Their primary function is supplementing microbe colonies on the leaves and stems and in the grow medium. Those microbes are the vehicles which, among other functions, provide decomposition of grow medium nutrients to service plant requirements.

If you're going organic you won't have to be concerned with the possibility of too much nitrogen being present during the flowering cycle. The plant is always in charge and will take what it requires from your living soil. Just keep the microherd happy.
 
Mazar i Shariff

Mazar i Shariff

Active Member
Oh i'm not offended... It's a valid comment

Are there lots of companies out there that will scam, or at the very least, mislead you as a means to buy their products? YES

At times, are there cheaper products out there that can be similar quality, if not better, than that of the pricey competitors? YES

However, when it comes to nutrients, it is no news that Advanced Nutrients is the #1 brand for developing cannabis specific nutrient lines. You may find a compost tea out there that is of excellent quality, but if the tea is composed of ingredients that give it a NPK ratio of say, 10-10-10, then it may be a quality product for SOME plant life, but NOT for cannabis. The reason, is that strains require different ratios than others as far as NPK, and I have never seen a single cannabis plant that grow well with equal amounts of NPK, for example. Therefore, you really have to pay attention to the ratios AS WELL as what they are derived from, or you might find yourself accidentally feeding too much of one or two nutrients during veg that are only required in that dose during flowering phase, or vice versa. So with that in mind, do some research on your specific strains and find out what they like. I have a white widow that will eat up nitrogen like nothing else, so I feed it what I normally do, plus it gets more Alaska Fish Emulsion @ 5-1-1 than the others. Then I have some that prefer lower doses and seem to like my Organic Iguana Juice @ 3-1-3 much more.

In the end, one mans meat can be another's poison. Def find what works for you and your strains personally and try to get into more depth from there. If you keep switching nutes every cycle trying to upgrade to the best of the best, you may find yourself lacking much needed consistency and success. As for me, I stick with it that Advanced Organics line is top notch and by far the frontrunner in cannabis related research vs all the other companies out there. Anyone who doesn't believe that or wants to find out, the only solid way to truely find out is put two clones from the same mother side by side in your grow room. Feed one Advanced and the other a nute of your choice and find out for yourself!
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
Mazar i Shariff said:
Oh i'm not offended... It's a valid comment

Are there lots of companies out there that will scam, or at the very least, mislead you as a means to buy their products? YES

At times, are there cheaper products out there that can be similar quality, if not better, than that of the pricey competitors? YES

It's just, when it comes to nutrients, it is no news that Advanced Nutrients is the #1 brand for developing Cannabis specific nutrient lines. You may find a compost tea out there that is of excellent quality, but if the tea is composed of products that give it a ration of say, 10-10-10, then it may be a quality product for SOME plant life, but NOT for cannabis. The reason, is that strains require different ratios than others as far as NPK, and I have never seen a single cannabis plant that grow well with equal amounts of NPK. Therefore, you really have to pay attention to the ratios AS WELL as what they are derived from, or you might find yourself accidentally feeding too much of one or two nutrients during veg that are only required in that dose during flowering phase, or vice versa. So with that in mind, do some research on your specific strains and find out what they like. I have a white widow that will eat up nitrogen like nothing else, so I feed it what I normally do, only it gets more Alaska Fish Emulsion @ 5-1-1 than the others. Then I have some that prefer lower doses and seem to like my Organic Iguana Juice @ 3-1-3 much more.

In the end, one mans meat can be another's poison. Def find what works for you and your strains personally and try to get into more depth from there. If you keep switching nutes every cycle trying to upgrade to the best of the best, you may find yourself lacking much needed consistency and success. As for me, I stick with it that Advanced Organics line is top notch and by far the frontrunner in cannabis related research vs all the other companies out there. Anyone who doesn't believe that or wants to find out, the only solid way to truely find out is put two clones from the same mother side by side in your grow room. Feed one Advanced and the other a nute of your choice and find out for yourself!
Click to expand...
No requirement for nutrient supplements is one of the pleasures of organic growing. Everything plants require are in a properly prepared living soil. AACT applications supplement microbe colonies which deliver nutrient requirements on plant demand. If one strain requires more nitrogen than another, a living soil meets that demand. There's a reason grow mediums, their components and ACCT teas and their components are the serious topics on serious organic forums.

For anyone seriously interested in organic growing and its many benefits, I recommend 'Teaming with Microbes'. A small volume, written in layman terms, it describes what's actually happening in a living soil.
 
Mazar i Shariff

Mazar i Shariff

Active Member
I agree that if you have enough raw organic nutrient sources to use for your teas, as well as the time & experience to mix and ferment them properly, that it can create a good solid source for your plants and rid the need of purchased supplements.

However ...

HtotheD's original question/concern was that the N ratio in his tea is too high for flowering and that to not risk feeding his plants improperly, he wanted advice on what to buy and use to finish his plants off. To answer that better, I think you could do the following:

1) Start by purchasing a macro supplement. A great organic tea is Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Super Bloom Tea, consisting of crab meal, shrimp meal, earthworm castings, volcanic ash, yucca extract, kelp meal, alfalfa, ferminted compost, amino acids, and over 70 other vitamins & minerals. This is what you're already using, AND SOME.

2) Carbo loading your plants during weeks 1-6 of flowering is vital to increasing resin/trichome production, sweetening your flowers & improving flavor, as well as being an easy to convert source of energy allowing your buds to reach their maximum size. I personally use AN Bud Candy, Tropical Organics Banana Extract, and three of Botanicare's organice SWEET carbo line (Grape, Citrus, and Original Berry flavors). Together, this combo creates a heavenly fruit scent by the time my buds are finishing. To keep it simple, Bud Candy would prob be the best of those to choose to do alone.

3) You could stop there, or you could take things a bit further and grab other additives, such as: AN Nirvana Bloom BioStiumulant or other organic bloom enhancers, Botanicare's organic Cal-Mag supplement can be helpful if you have any deficiencies there, as well as assisting in balancing PH, and I also use their Silica Blast product which is basically pure potassium silicate. Helps my plants that are outdoors through enviornmental stress on hot days as well as resist pests & disease by strengthening cell walls in the plant. This also relates to more effecient nutrient transfer throughout those stronger cell walls, making this supplement an organic yield enhancer as well.

4) AN Final Phase flushing solution is supposed to be one of the best out there. I've also tried other brands flushing solutions that come in flavors such as Pina Colada or Strawberry if you want to try and give it more of a fruity influence towards the end.

Hope this helps!
 
H

HtotheD

Member
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

First, I think it's funny you all assume I'm male. Female here:)

Anyway... I fed AN my first few go arounds. It wasn't great but wasn't bad. My first grow so... you're happy they're all alive at the end. :)

What I'm trying to do now is make my own versions. The Teaming with Microbes book was a great suggestion. I'm trying to compare between bottle and raw ingredients. The web is alive about the ingredients in Alfalfa Teas and how great they are for your plants. Here's my thoughts... Alfalfa is cheap; less "ooo-la-la" than, lets say, ancient bat turds from far off caves. Not only that, it's much harder to get your hands on. Anyone can buy alfalfa pellets. Maybe it's more complicated, to some extent, because they have to justify there higher prices. I know they have a great product, but maybe it's making it harder than what it has to be. You guys see hot chicks in bikinis and note, "wow, they spend a lot of money on marketing, they must be good." (just kidding... I'm a smart ass)

I love this forum and I love all your answers. I always learn something knew. I wanted to see if there's anyone who's used or is familiar with Alfalfa teas who might know about the last few weeks of flowering when you don't need to feed as much N.

I've posted the nutrient facts of Alfalfa below in case anyone is interest in looking at what's in it.

Thanks guys/gals for your great help and I look forward to more in the future.

H to the D!



Alfalfa ingredients:
Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins (16 - 25% in dry alfalfa)

Minerals (contained in dry alfalfa)
Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 %
Potassium .75 - 3.5 %
Phosphorus .3 - .7%
Calcium 1 - 2 %
Magnesium .30 - 1 %
Sulphur .2 - .5 %
Manganese 30-200 ppm
Iron 20-250 ppm
Boron 20-80 ppm
Copper 5-20 ppm
Zinc 20-70 ppm


Amino acids (% in alfalfa meal)Tryptophan, 0.3 %
Aspartic Acid, 2.3%
Threonine, 1.0 %
Serine, 1.0%
Glutamic Acid, 2.7%
Proline, 1.2%
Glycine, 1.1%
Alanine, 1.1%
Cystine, 0.2%
Valine, 1.0%
Methionine, 0.3%
Isoleucine, 0.8%
Leucine, 1.6%
Tyrosine, 0.5%
Phenylalanine, 1.0%
Histidine, 0.4%
Lysine, Total, 1.1%
Arginine, 1.1%
 
Mazar i Shariff

Mazar i Shariff

Active Member
Pardon me, mam! =) haha

And you are more than welcome, glad to help! Keep us all updated on your future success on both your grow and improvements on your homemade teas. That is def my goal for next year, producing all my teas at home. I'd be happy to hear anything new that you learn about the process.
 
M

madodah

Well-Known Member
HtotheD said:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

First, I think it's funny you all assume I'm male. Female here:)

Anyway... I fed AN my first few go arounds. It wasn't great but wasn't bad. My first grow so... you're happy they're all alive at the end. :)

What I'm trying to do now is make my own versions. The Teaming with Microbes book was a great suggestion. I'm trying to compare between bottle and raw ingredients.
Click to expand...
If you do become involved in organic growing beyond the brand name stage, you're in for some very pleasant surprises. Virtually anything in a 'nute' bottle with a tricky name and extravagant price is available in raw form at very reasonable prices. That allows using it in your grow medium for nutrient purposes and AACT applications to feed the microherd that delivers them to your plants. Commercial organic growing of edible plant matter has been around for a lot longer than than cannabis growers suddenly discovering the benefits or organic growing. You won't see commercial farmers buying bottles of pricey solubles having labels plastered with miracle claims.

The web is alive about the ingredients in Alfalfa Teas and how great they are for your plants. Here's my thoughts... Alfalfa is cheap; less "ooo-la-la" than, lets say, ancient bat turds from far off caves. Not only that, it's much harder to get your hands on. Anyone can buy alfalfa pellets. Maybe it's more complicated, to some extent, because they have to justify there higher prices. I know they have a great product, but maybe it's making it harder than what it has to be. You guys see hot chicks in bikinis and note, "wow, they spend a lot of money on marketing, they must be good." (just kidding... I'm a smart ass)
Click to expand...
Buy Alfalfa meal rather than the pellets.

I love this forum and I love all your answers. I always learn something knew. I wanted to see if there's anyone who's used or is familiar with Alfalfa teas who might know about the last few weeks of flowering when you don't need to feed as much N.
Click to expand...
In an organic grow the plant is in charge, not someone pouring something out of a bottle. With a properly prepared grow medium plants will take what they require regardless of growth cycle. Pulling nitrogen during flowering (and flushes) are mental hangovers from hydro growing. I like alfalfa meal, use it in my grow mediums and AACT applications with other ingredients.

I've posted the nutrient facts of Alfalfa below in case anyone is interest in looking at what's in it.

Thanks guys/gals for your great help and I look forward to more in the future.

H to the D!



Alfalfa ingredients:
Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins (16 - 25% in dry alfalfa)

Minerals (contained in dry alfalfa)
Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 %
Potassium .75 - 3.5 %
Phosphorus .3 - .7%
Calcium 1 - 2 %
Magnesium .30 - 1 %
Sulphur .2 - .5 %
Manganese 30-200 ppm
Iron 20-250 ppm
Boron 20-80 ppm
Copper 5-20 ppm
Zinc 20-70 ppm


Amino acids (% in alfalfa meal)Tryptophan, 0.3 %
Aspartic Acid, 2.3%
Threonine, 1.0 %
Serine, 1.0%
Glutamic Acid, 2.7%
Proline, 1.2%
Glycine, 1.1%
Alanine, 1.1%
Cystine, 0.2%
Valine, 1.0%
Methionine, 0.3%
Isoleucine, 0.8%
Leucine, 1.6%
Tyrosine, 0.5%
Phenylalanine, 1.0%
Histidine, 0.4%
Lysine, Total, 1.1%
Arginine, 1.1%
Click to expand...
 
Growop101

Growop101

Well-Known Member
Excellent thread i was lookin on google to find out how t make an alfalfa tea and it brought me here lol. Never underestimate Roll It UP aha. But seriously i was thinking about making a Russian comfrey/Alfalfa tea. What do you niggahs think??
 
Growop101

Growop101

Well-Known Member
or even if you just use the russian comfrey and alfalfa teas seperatley. I am going to try and jus use those 2 and get great results. i usually dont use any additional additives , just good soils lots of sun an water. And i get good results with that but with the teas we will see another bowl has jus been packed for me.. ez
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
Mazar i Shariff said:
I agree that if you have enough raw organic nutrient sources to use for your teas, as well as the time & experience to mix and ferment them properly, that it can create a good solid source for your plants and rid the need of purchased supplements.

However ...

HtotheD's original question/concern was that the N ratio in his tea is too high for flowering and that to not risk feeding his plants improperly, he wanted advice on what to buy and use to finish his plants off. To answer that better, I think you could do the following:

1) Start by purchasing a macro supplement. A great organic tea is Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Super Bloom Tea, consisting of crab meal, shrimp meal, earthworm castings, volcanic ash, yucca extract, kelp meal, alfalfa, ferminted compost, amino acids, and over 70 other vitamins & minerals. This is what you're already using, AND SOME.

2) Carbo loading your plants during weeks 1-6 of flowering is vital to increasing resin/trichome production, sweetening your flowers & improving flavor, as well as being an easy to convert source of energy allowing your buds to reach their maximum size. I personally use AN Bud Candy, Tropical Organics Banana Extract, and three of Botanicare's organice SWEET carbo line (Grape, Citrus, and Original Berry flavors). Together, this combo creates a heavenly fruit scent by the time my buds are finishing. To keep it simple, Bud Candy would prob be the best of those to choose to do alone.

3) You could stop there, or you could take things a bit further and grab other additives, such as: AN Nirvana Bloom BioStiumulant or other organic bloom enhancers, Botanicare's organic Cal-Mag supplement can be helpful if you have any deficiencies there, as well as assisting in balancing PH, and I also use their Silica Blast product which is basically pure potassium silicate. Helps my plants that are outdoors through enviornmental stress on hot days as well as resist pests & disease by strengthening cell walls in the plant. This also relates to more effecient nutrient transfer throughout those stronger cell walls, making this supplement an organic yield enhancer as well.

4) AN Final Phase flushing solution is supposed to be one of the best out there. I've also tried other brands flushing solutions that come in flavors such as Pina Colada or Strawberry if you want to try and give it more of a fruity influence towards the end.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Regarding the Silica Blast: it only has 2% silica content, so it's definitely not pure potassium silicate.
 
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