Amend used FFOF or start from scratch?

Hey guys, I'm really intrigued by the idea of an organic no-till setup. I've read a lot of inspiring things in this section and feel like my head is going to melt from soil recipe searches alone.

I was wondering though if it would be safe to use my single use (currently in flower) FFOF as the primary component in my base? I was thinking that maybe I'd start with something like:

4 parts used FFOF
2 part EWC
1 part perlite

Then add some kelp meal, crab meal, neem cake, and maybe humus.

The above being my super duper basic first generation soil. What do you think?

Amend...amen! Everything you list is good but not sure all that will feed them through to harvesting. Don't forget about mineral and N inputs. I like to use chicken manure and bat guano but cow manure is good too. Blood meal, fish bone meal, 5-5-5 happy frog fertilizer, and jobes organic spikes are staples in my arsenal. Don't be afraid to add a lot of stuff in small quantities; it's almost impossible to burn plants if you recycle amended soil and it gets better every time.
Minerals take a long time to break down so they last a long time; a little goes a long way in keeping your mix super active. I like to use soft rock phosphate and/or glacial rock dust or azomite; though alotta peeps don't like to use it. Pure humic acid is awesome to add in and I think it speeds the cooking process. Oyster shell flour helps regulate ph and garden gypsum helps with absorption. Dolomite lime is good too but you only need a tiny bit; reduces the need for soluble calmag which you might need if you run RO or distilled water in your grow. Rainwater is best; I collect it when it rains and use reclaimed water from a dehumidier in the meantime. Walmart RO when it's very dry....a clean water source is crucial.
You will need to let it sit for 30 days until you can use it. I put spent root balls in a bigass tote bin, add your composts and amendments, hydrate it, mix it all up with a rusty old shovel & put a lid on loose and forget about it for a month.
Keep it simple; amending an already decent spent mix is much easier than building it from scratch and cheaper too. I began my organic adventures about 2 years ago & started with bag soil same as you. It takes about a year to get your mix to supernatural status but once you do it's much less effort and virtually cost free; dry amendments are cheap.
Best thing you can do is start up a worm bin; you can go even higher than 50% fresh EWC especially if you are cutting down with perlite; I usually add a shovel or 2 of coco coir as well; gives something for the colonizing fungus & microbes to cling to. Hope that helps good luck happy growing

Thanks so for all of the input man, this is hugely helpful. I just realized I have a hydro store 45 mins that carries some of the harder to find stuff outside of just ordering online. I totally forgot about a P source but we do have some bat guano already that I've been using outside, sweet.

slow_grow said:

Thanks so for all of the input man, this is hugely helpful. I just realized I have a hydro store 45 mins that carries some of the harder to find stuff outside of just ordering online. I totally forgot about a P source but we do have some bat guano already that I've been using outside, sweet.

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remember for a no-till setup you want your mix based on slow release nutrients and minerals.
mix slow with medium release nutrients and you are golden.
for that reason I don't like super soluble inputs like guano, and bloodmeal.
although both of those are kickass for topdressing.
I prefer slow release forms of macros, example are
nitrogen- fish meal, feather meal, hair, alfalfa meal, grass clippings, neem meal, crab meal, shrimp meal.
phosphorus- crab meal, rock phosphates, neem meal, fish bone meal, etc
potassium- crab meal, greensand, kelp meal, etc

you can make a soil with more soluble nutrients but be prepared to lose a good amount of it by the time the soil is cycled, and even more when it's watered, not to mention that soluble nutrients often steer towards an acidic ph when they dissolve.

slow_grow said:

Thanks so for all of the input man, this is hugely helpful. I just realized I have a hydro store 45 mins that carries some of the harder to find stuff outside of just ordering online. I totally forgot about a P source but we do have some bat guano already that I've been using outside, sweet.

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also try and AVOID that hydro $hop...
look more for a livestock feeding company, or a garden store steered towards homesteaders and such.
there isn't anything that a hydro shop would have that those don't.
with maybe silica as an exception...
but the hydro $tore will be more expensive, and often will try and sell you weird shit...
remember, people have been growing their own veggies and fruits for decades and centuries without ANYTHING that a hydro store offers.

@greasemonkeymann thanks for the info man and will do. I originally bookmarked them because I didn't want to have bagged soil shipped again and they have a lot of the stuff everyone has mentioned but since I'm re-using what I have, I'll try to source everything from garden & livestock oriented places.

I grabbed a kiddie pool to throw all my my FFOF in once my first run is over in a few weeks. I planned to break it up pretty good then add & mix everything. I planned to let it sit for a few weeks before using it. Should I keep a light cycle on the pool while the mix cooks or is under a semi-sunny window fine? Lastly, should I hold off on mixing in any highly soluble nutrients until I'm ready to actually use it?

Thanks again guys!

slow_grow said:

@greasemonkeymann thanks for the info man and will do. I originally bookmarked them because I didn't want to have bagged soil shipped again and they have a lot of the stuff everyone has mentioned but since I'm re-using what I have, I'll try to source everything from garden & livestock oriented places.

I grabbed a kiddie pool to throw all my my FFOF in once my first run is over in a few weeks. I planned to break it up pretty good then add & mix everything. I planned to let it sit for a few weeks before using it. Should I keep a light cycle on the pool while the mix cooks or is under a semi-sunny window fine? Lastly, should I hold off on mixing in any highly soluble nutrients until I'm ready to actually use it?

Thanks again guys!

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well, sun destroys microbes, also dries out the soil, so to age/cycle it the quickest, I would speculate that out of direct light would be faster.
and honestly I would say the super soluble nutrients you could age in there as well, provided you don't water too much.
My point for soluble nutrients was more towards IN the container, which most water thoroughly, and then you wash away the nutrients.
guano is super soluble.
Easy way to think about it is like making a tea, that process is no different, you are adding a LOT of water, and that dissolves the guano, the same thing happens in the soil, maybe even more so considering the guano is sorta "held" in place in the soil while the water runs through it, sorta like a small erosion process..

I mean it's ok, WORST case scenario you have to topdress or feed via teas later.
no biggie really.
It's just not how I do it, but that doesn't mean anything

I personally have a surgically repaired back, and don't prefer to piss it off with heavy buckets of teas..

@greasemonkeymann good deal. I had bookmarked buildasoil's craft blend nutrient mix back when someone mentioned them as a good place for those new to no-till soil. It can be used to re-amend, top-dress, or brew tea. Basically a 12lb bag is $32 (without shipping) which would last me a long time, I only grow for my wife and I. I could grab some EWC and perlite locally and be all set. It's kind of tempting.

It contains the following which I pulled directly from their site:

1. Acadian Kelp Meal
2. Ahimsa Neem/Karanja Cake
3. Alfalfa Meal
4. CalPhos
5. Camelina Meal
6. Crustacean Meal
7. Fish Meal
8. 3x Fish Bone Meal
9. Soybean Meal
10. Sul-Po-Mag (Also Known as K-Mag or Langbeinite)
11. Malted Barley Grains (3 Varieties)
12. Azomite
13. Basalt - Local Colorado
14. Gypsum
15. Oyster Flour

They state NPK values of 3-4-2. Here is the link: http://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-craft-blend-nutrient-pack

What do you guys think about starting with the above and then over time slowly replacing some of the included ingredients (in addition to introducing other things) into my own little stash of ingredients?

slow_grow said:

@greasemonkeymann good deal. I had bookmarked buildasoil's craft blend nutrient mix back when someone mentioned them as a good place for those new to no-till soil. It can be used to re-amend, top-dress, or brew tea. Basically a 12lb bag is $32 (without shipping) which would last me a long time, I only grow for my wife and I. I could grab some EWC and perlite locally and be all set. It's kind of tempting.

It contains the following which I pulled directly from their site:

1. Acadian Kelp Meal
2. Ahimsa Neem/Karanja Cake
3. Alfalfa Meal
4. CalPhos
5. Camelina Meal
6. Crustacean Meal
7. Fish Meal
8. 3x Fish Bone Meal
9. Soybean Meal
10. Sul-Po-Mag (Also Known as K-Mag or Langbeinite)
11. Malted Barley Grains (3 Varieties)
12. Azomite
13. Basalt - Local Colorado
14. Gypsum
15. Oyster Flour

They state NPK values of 3-4-2. Here is the link: http://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-craft-blend-nutrient-pack

What do you guys think about starting with the above and then over time slowly replacing some of the included ingredients (in addition to introducing other things) into my own little stash of ingredients?

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that's def a good mix, i'd drop the azomite and calphos and soybean meal
but past that it's damn near perfect.
go light on the langbeinite too

Nice, ok man I think I'll grab the 12lb bag. Jesh and to think, just a week ago I was planning on tossing all of my once used soil out back and starting with fresh bags... Thanks again!

slow_grow said:

Nice, ok man I think I'll grab the 12lb bag. Jesh and to think, just a week ago I was planning on tossing all of my once used soil out back and starting with fresh bags... Thanks again!

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I've been there my man.
I shudder to think about all the soil I tossed in the 90s

Howdy gents, so just a quick followup on the above. While waiting for the craft blend to get in I emptied my used FFOF soil into this kiddie pool after removing the primary stem. I left 99% of the roots in but broke it all up until no clump larger than a grape exists. I then watered, mixed and covered it. It sat like that for about a week.

My buildasoil craft blend came in yesterday so today I mixed 5 cups of the blend, 2 15lb bags of EWC and about .5 cu/ft of course perlite in. Jeff at buildasoil said that the craft blend doesn't need to cook or anything when mixed but I wont be able to start potting until tomorrow. Here is a shot of my newly amended soil in addition to a close up of the craft blend for anyone interested.

Thanks again for the help guys. I spent far less than I did for my initial batch of soil (which I was about to toss before talking to you guys) and now I have enough of the craft blend to re-amend for at least two years. I'll add in some fresh EWC along the way. I also grabbed a 50 pack of the jobe's organic veggie spikes (NPK 2-7-4) for like $6 as needed in flower.

Nice! I Iike using the jobes spikes too...I put 2 in each 10g pot just before they go into flower & they feed for like 45 days. Good luck happy growing!

Thanks man!

Hey gents just a quick follow-up on this. The plants are rocking along and took very well to their mainline. I have yet to apply a single nute, everything seems very stable. They are nearly ready for their second topping at only 3.5 weeks old and were transplanted into their 5G pots just after the first topping. The block 14 comfrey you see in the lower right might get chopped back down to its crown for tea during flower, not sure yet. I'm kind of on the fence about putting an organic steak or two in there. I know they'll need a boost in flower but I'm thinking maybe a bit of comfrey tea with each (or every other) watering might do it. Anyhow, thanks again guys.