Any Existing Evidence that Clones upon Clones Degrade Yield or Quality?

meowmix

meowmix

Active Member
Is there any evidence that clones upon clones degrade yield or quality? As many of you know, Stinkbud's system is reliant on this. He says he notices no difference, but I think he might migrate his strains a good bit (just assuming). Im doing a system without mothers so the clone generations add up pretty quick, evertyhing is clones of clones. I've heard this is bad, but I don't believe it. The only reason I can think of that would cause lesser quality etc is the stress while cloning/rooting.

Is there any evidence?
 
svchop889

svchop889

Well-Known Member
keeping a single mother for two long was what decreased the quality of the clones I thought because the clone is as old as the mother it came from and If your cloning off of a plant that's been around for ages the quality will diminish because of the age of the mother.
 
svchop889

svchop889

Well-Known Member
I guess the question is how long is the appropriate amount of time to keep a mother plant. One season, and then replace with one of its own clones?
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
the idea comes from the fact that
1 nothing lives forever
2 a clone is the same age of the plant that it is cloned from

over time the genetics will break down
like copying from a copy
if a plants is vegged for a year the you clone from it
that clone nomater the size is 1 year old
now keep doing this year after year

plants are geneticly made to live 1 season then die
but you have a genetic plant thats be around for 5-10 season in perpetural vegg
it is believed thats this alone will hurt the plant
outside of this i have no real proof that cloning from a clone does any harm
 
svchop889

svchop889

Well-Known Member
That 5hit said:
the idea comes from the fact that
1 nothing lives forever
2 a clone is the same age of the plant that it is cloned from

over time the genetics will break down
like copying from a copy
if a plants is vegged for a year the you clone from it
that clone nomater the size is 1 year old
now keep doing this year after year

plants are geneticly made to live 1 season then die
but you have a genetic plant thats be around for 5-10 season in perpetural vegg
it is believed thats this alone will hurt the plant
outside of this i have no real proof that cloning from a clone does any harm
Click to expand...
Is new growth on an old plant as old as the rest of the plant despite the fact that its new?
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
good question
i would think (because i'm not 100% on this) thats it is new growth on old genetics
meaning
a plant thats 2 years old
is geneticly 2years old but the growth is new
like a 80 year old man make new cells every day
but those cells are the cells of a 80 year old man
not the cells of a 1 year old baby (like in stem cells re. they would rather have the cell of a unborn child then the cells of an elderly man)
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
if you gat a few hundred years then we may find out, LOL
if there is some type of degrade i dont think we will live to see it
your likely to get bored of a strain before it becomes unstable
 
B

burninjay

Active Member
My reply is based on nothing but logic.

clones are copies of plants, but on a smaller scale, they are made of cells that are copies of cells. Each time these cells replicate, the chance of mutation exists which would result in a permanent alteration of the genetics in that cell and all those replicated from it over time. In a perfect environment this should theoretically never occur, but reality is that grow rooms are not perfect and environmental factors can disrupt the replication process. Genetic drift is entirely a possibility, and the evolution of every species alive on this planet is the example of this. That being said, the possible drift in genetics over time has potential to be good as much as bad.
Personally, I have cloned from clones many times and have not yet observed drift in my genetics.

Regarding the new growth of a plant being the same age as the oldest growth, I will again use logic. If this were true, then the cells that make up a seed at the time of fertilization would then have this 'old' dna and pass it along to the next generation which would then start at the same age as the parent was at the time of seeding. Today's plants would then be as old as the first cannabis plant to grace the earth.

Logic can explain/verify/disprove just about anything.
 
STZ

STZ

Active Member
I have never heard of this happening but recently, something along these lines is taking place in a line of Afwreck clones that me and my friends have been growing for years. Over the last three years I have personally grown dozens of these plants and seen hundreds more grown both indoors and out. These are all the same "cut" of Afwreck - all these clones come from the same mother (or clones of that same mother). The last two runs we've done on the indoor and the last outdoor run started exhibiting wierd traits never seen before - like "fingers" growing from the tops of finished buds (I think some people call them King's Crowns), as well as a loss of density in all the big tops. I could be wrong but as far as we can tell, no other factors have changed. If every time we cut clones, we called it a new "generation", the clones we're growing now would be like the 30th generation. It appears as though this "generation" of clones is starting to "degrade". By this I mean that all the desirable traits that we chose to clone for have been disapearing slowly and all kinds of wierd things are happening. Crazy stuff.

P.S. I have no scientific evidence of any of this, its just based on my observations after growing the same strain a long time. It could very easily be something I/we are doing wrong and/or differently than we used to and are simply overlooking something. Or it could be that we smoke stupid amounts of hash and we are just bored of growing Afwreck :)
 
meowmix

meowmix

Active Member
this kind of thing also requires a knowledge of plants. I asked for evidence, logic tells me that I clip some new growth or old, then it says 'oh fuck i need roots' and i put it in an environment which allows that. I think the genetic drift would totally be possible in this stressful 'oh fuck' stage but then again, im no botanist. I was kinda hoping there would be an existing study or something, seems like everything to do with plants is word of mouth.

burninjay said:
My reply is based on nothing but logic.

clones are copies of plants, but on a smaller scale, they are made of cells that are copies of cells. Each time these cells replicate, the chance of mutation exists which would result in a permanent alteration of the genetics in that cell and all those replicated from it over time. In a perfect environment this should theoretically never occur, but reality is that grow rooms are not perfect and environmental factors can disrupt the replication process. Genetic drift is entirely a possibility, and the evolution of every species alive on this planet is the example of this. That being said, the possible drift in genetics over time has potential to be good as much as bad.
Personally, I have cloned from clones many times and have not yet observed drift in my genetics.

Regarding the new growth of a plant being the same age as the oldest growth, I will again use logic. If this were true, then the cells that make up a seed at the time of fertilization would then have this 'old' dna and pass it along to the next generation which would then start at the same age as the parent was at the time of seeding. Today's plants would then be as old as the first cannabis plant to grace the earth.

Logic can explain/verify/disprove just about anything.
Click to expand...
 
meowmix

meowmix

Active Member
crazy shit. You guys keeping this strange strain going? i think its trying to grow hands and flip you off for never letting the bitch sex lol

STZ said:
I have never heard of this happening but recently, something along these lines is taking place in a line of Afwreck clones that me and my friends have been growing for years. Over the last three years I have personally grown dozens of these plants and seen hundreds more grown both indoors and out. These are all the same "cut" of Afwreck - all these clones come from the same mother (or clones of that same mother). The last two runs we've done on the indoor and the last outdoor run started exhibiting wierd traits never seen before - like "fingers" growing from the tops of finished buds (I think some people call them King's Crowns), as well as a loss of density in all the big tops. I could be wrong but as far as we can tell, no other factors have changed. If every time we cut clones, we called it a new "generation", the clones we're growing now would be like the 30th generation. It appears as though this "generation" of clones is starting to "degrade". By this I mean that all the desirable traits that we chose to clone for have been disapearing slowly and all kinds of wierd things are happening. Crazy stuff.

P.S. I have no scientific evidence of any of this, its just based on my observations after growing the same strain a long time. It could very easily be something I/we are doing wrong and/or differently than we used to and are simply overlooking something. Or it could be that we smoke stupid amounts of hash and we are just bored of growing Afwreck :)
Click to expand...
 
STZ

STZ

Active Member
meowmix said:
crazy shit. You guys keeping this strange strain going? i think its trying to grow hands and flip you off for never letting the bitch sex lol
Click to expand...

Lol thats what I said. Its probably just mother nature pissed off at us for never letting her die! We kept her going for a few reasons...Not only is Afwreck a decent yielder and decent smoke, but its one of the easiest strains to grow and probably THE easiest strain to clone that I have ever worked with.
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
i think i agree with the idea that an old mother might make "lower grade" older clones. it just seems logical to replace it every crop
 
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