I am trying a hydro set up for the first time. The guy at my local hydro store suggested Cutting edge solutions 3 part nutrient system. According to him and several comments online, its really easy to use. Despite this, my plants seem deficient. I have clones with what i believe to be established roots that i am trying to move over to veg. I cannot get them to take off and start growing vigorously though. I have had them under a 600w light for the last 2 weeks and they are still only 6 inches tall. Growth is definitely slow/stunted. I have been trying to ease them onto the nutes stepping up the PPM's gradually. I am up to 3/4 strength of the veg mix given on the bottle and i already show ppm of 1550 (starting with RO water, ph7 and ppm 0), which i thought seemed a little high. However, they progressed to this point on lower ppm's. The problem seems to progress to this point no matter how much or little nutes i give them. The CES web site says that at full strength the PPM should be between 600 and 1200 PPM !?! At least the PH seems to level it self correctly. Its typically between 5.7 and 6.0 after mixing and even several days later. The plants older leaves started with some brown spots. They then began to turn yellow in the middle of the leaves and some at the tips or edges. The veins stay green until the whole leaf dies, turns yellow and crunchy and eventually falls off. The newer growth even shows bands of slight yellowness. The nodes are developing close to one another and leaves are underdeveloped. The plants are not taking off on vigorous growth like i thought they would. I was thinking it may be mag deficiency but cannot tell for sure. Was wondering if anyone out there has used this 3 part system successfully in a hydro set up. And if so, what kind of ppm were you using and did you find it necessary to add any supplements? Any input is greatly appreciated.
Anyone use Cutting Edge solutions 3 part nutrient system successfully?
- Thread starter buyinshit
- Start date
TJChasmatic
Member
I've seen Cutting Edge work great in soil both indoors and out. If you're using a 600w your room temp may be too high. Do you have proper air exchange/temp regulation? Flourescents are so much better if not for this reason alone but if you're temps are good then I'm stumped!
TJChasmatic
Member
Also you shouldn't be past half the ppm's for vigorous growth until your plants get big enough to handle it. If you're over-fertilizing they can go in to nutrient lock and appear to have the symptoms of underfertalizing. I've personally made the mistake of thinking it was lacking magneseum when really it was over-fertilized. The way the tips burn and curl a little from over fertilizing can seem like a text-book mag deficiency if you don't have a lot of experience distinguishing the two, so stay low until your plants get bigger. I've seen plants grow in lava rocks with just water and no nutrients so I would definitly be more worried about over fertilizing. When you adjust your levels it can take a week to effect it so once you over do it you gotta flush it out and be patient.
I am using a small cabinet that i made along with some old equiptment that i had laying around to experiment with this hydro thing, but it is pretty well vented. The temperature doesnt stay as low as i would like but i dont think that its too high. It stays consistently around 80f and has never gone higher than about 86f on a warm day. humidity is relatively low, 25-50%. I will get pics up as soon as possible. I bought the clones and put them directly into the hydro set up. They seemed to have fairly well developed roots, they were coming out the sides and bottom of the rockwool. I suppose it is possible that they are over fertilized, the plants are young. Again im new to this hydro thing, in soil you just throw em in and they take off. I will try to lower PPM's to Maybe 600-800 and see if they show any signs of recovery over the next week or week and a half. Hopefully someone can make a more accurate diagnosis once i get pics up.
fatman7574
New Member
They are good for the Micro/Bloom, combination but the Grow/Micro combination provides no magnesium, sulfur or copper. Sad. The supplements are not needed.
A total lack of magnesium, sulfur and copper during grow at are deficiencies. Period.
A total lack of magnesium, sulfur and copper during grow at are deficiencies. Period.
fatman7574
New Member
Did you read what you just wrote? Stay low. Zero magnesium, sulfur and copper is not low it is a total absence, Dude. Go back to primary nutrient study Dude and quit giving poor advice and poor recommendations.
fatman7574
New Member
Your stumped?
Dude, get on target. The grow/micro combination contains absolutely NO MAGNESIUM, SULFUR OR COPPER. Look at a defiiciency chart. Look at why these nutrients are needed. Magnesium has a primary role in the light collecting mechanism of the plant and the production of sugars through photosynthesis. Duh. So what do you think the problems might possibly be other than the obvious lack of essential nutrients?
caregivers
Member
Heyas,
I am using this trio right now and dont seem to have any problems so far. At full strength (with R/O water) my ppm count is about 900 or so. I am running a side by side comparison of CES and foxfarm on the same strain and I can tell you CES is way better for my plants. The foxfarm got burnt when I tried to bring it up to full strength so had to cut back. I think you are reading or adding too much nutes somewhere and double check everything before adding to make sure its accurate.
The Micro has some magneseuim in it, but it still wasnt enough to make my palnts happy, this is why CES offers the Mag Amp and Cal supplements for it. This should solve all your defiecies I would assume. I have Cal-Mag (botincare) leftover so I am using that for now til I run out then will grab the Amp and cal supplements. The CES line is very PH stable compared to the foxfarm line. I rarely adjust the ph with my CES nute soup while with foxfarm I am adjusting every 2 days.
Since this is my first grow with CES dont base everythign on what I say and best of luck to you!
CGs
freeze600cc
Member
Ya man try lowering your PPM's down a bit, if they are 6 inches tall, maybe somewhere around 500-600ppms with some Cal_Mag.
Thanks everyone for your input. So i flushed them out for a day and a half, fed them r/o water with the ph lowered down to 5.8. I have also diluted my veg solution down to 300 ppm's and added a very little bit of cal mag +. Do you guys think thats low enough or too low? I plan on giving them a week or so to see if the decline in their health stops. If they look better, or at least not worse, I will add a bit more cal mag (as i have very little added to the solution right now) and raise the PPM's to 500-600. Sound like a good plan?
CGs, I was wondering what kind of PPM's you started your clones out on as soon as you started giving them nutes (with CES of course). Also, how much Cal Mag+ do you add to your solution?
CGs, I was wondering what kind of PPM's you started your clones out on as soon as you started giving them nutes (with CES of course). Also, how much Cal Mag+ do you add to your solution?
freeze600cc
Member
I add what they recommend on the bottle
davidgrimm
Active Member
I switched to Cutting Edge a couple of months ago and have not noticed any problems so far. The cuttings get KLN in the cloner and when I take them out they have anywhere between full vigorous root system to just nubes starting. They go into pots with coco (the expensive kind--purpleish bag Becuzz I think is what it is called) and get top feed (drain to waste) a 100% strength mixture for veg growth (5ml/gal each on bloom and the red one and then 10ml/gal on the grow one, using the Cutting Edge feeding chart). (FYI Once under veg, they go under 1000 HPS lights). They don't seem to grow vertically for 3-4 days and then take off. By day 7-10 of veg they are about 10-14 inches and I move to the bloom area. I continue with the CE feed for the 3 part but I use Bloombastic and do not use any of the CE additives.
I don't know why your system is not giving you good results.
EDIT: Temps are steady in the 70's, I air cool the lights. I have 30-100 per batch in the veg area. I keep the lights kinda high 24+/- inches about the clones for the first few days of veg, then drop to 15-18 inches, which is the level I keep them at throughout the grow. While in Veg, I feed about every 2nd or 3rd day, depending if the pots "feel" light. Once they go into Bloom, timers take over with a flood and drain system.
I don't know why your system is not giving you good results.
EDIT: Temps are steady in the 70's, I air cool the lights. I have 30-100 per batch in the veg area. I keep the lights kinda high 24+/- inches about the clones for the first few days of veg, then drop to 15-18 inches, which is the level I keep them at throughout the grow. While in Veg, I feed about every 2nd or 3rd day, depending if the pots "feel" light. Once they go into Bloom, timers take over with a flood and drain system.
fatman7574
New Member
Coco is a natural fiber, it contains naturally major, secondary and trace nutrients so it is not inert. Then you add a supplements that contains chemical nutrients, bacteria and enzymes. Your grow is not like the thread originators grow and it is hardly a showing of the Cutting edge product use in inert material as is typical to hydro. Your is essentially a type of soil grow. Coco is simply a soil replacement not an inert media in any way. Your trying to compare apples to ornges.
davidgrimm
Active Member
Sorry I didn't automatically assume he was using some totally inert grow medium for his hydro setup. Only posted my experience with Cutting Edge and, in detail, so he could compare operations.
BTW... The coco that I use (B'cuzz) is washed and buffered by the factory and then "lightly fertilised" (whatever that means). The factory specs do not list how much of what trace elements are still present. And I don't use my supplement (the Bloombastic) until the Bloom period, as my post lists, so that shouldn't affect anything.
In any event, hopefully the original poster figured out his problem.
caregivers
Member
Buyinshit,
I follow what is posted on the bottle. They have a dosage that is for seedlings and clones before roots which is where I start at. The ppm is about about 300 or so when starting out. Then when rooted enough the ppm for next level is between 500 to 600. My caregiver hooked me up with 2 afgooey clones that were already rooted and I still started out at 300 ppm just to be safe.
As for Cal-Mag I also follow the dosage on the bottle which is 2 tspn for every gallon if I remmy correctly. I do put the higher amount (accelerated formula) when i make the transistion from veg to flower. I am currently using bloombastic with CES near the end of my grow and i noticed a little burn. So I reduced my bloom nute a little bit when adding bloombastic and noticed a big difference. The plants are very happy. I hope this will help you in your grows with CES.
Happy Growing
CGs
fatman7574
New Member
As i said, magnesium is absent. Calmag supplies the needed mag. If it was used as an additive right from the begging when the CES is first used the results would be even better. mj Plants need mor calcium in the veg state, but typically do to high nitrate up take (and subsequent root carbonate discharge) during budding more calcium and magneisum is tied up in buffering so increased calcium and magnesiun above veg needs is typically required. IE the plants do not need ahigher ratio but the reservoir does.
Cal-Mag
Nitrogen 200
Magnesium 120
Calcium 259
Sulfur 160
Cal-Mag
Nitrogen 200
Magnesium 120
Calcium 259
Sulfur 160
BigLittlejohn
Well-Known Member
I've run CES before. You cannot go by their website and chart in dwc or you will over fert the girls bad. I still use sugaree in the last 2 weeks of flower.