Canna Coco System

J

Jah191

Active Member
Just made a trip to the local hydro shop and this is what the guy sold me:

50 liter canna COCO medium
COGr VEGA A&B nutes
Rhizotonic (.6-.2-.6) root stimulator


A set of coco pots


The guy said that I could just plant using the medium in the pots and treat it like a soil system. Just water it with the nutrients when necessary.

I am wondering if this is really the best setup or if you would recommend an ebb&flow or other type system. He claimed that ebb&flow and DWC were inefficient and difficult.
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum. He works at a hydro shop and he things its too difficult??? He hasn't done anything wrong, he is just underinformed. Everything he said will work so he didn't waste your money. Read some of the journals on here for yourself, maybe get a book on Hydro-growing. It will of course require more of an investment. I think it's worth it. I'd also look for another Hydro Shop. I depend on mine to give me good advice, yours isn't doing that. VV
 
J

Jah191

Active Member
Well there were DWC and ebb n flow systems in the shop so Im sure he knows about them, I think he just sensed my newbieness and thought coco would be an easier medium for me as a first timer.

My question is what I should do with what I have here. First of all, I am guessing the coco medium drains faster than soil. What should I do with the nutrient soaked water that accumulates underneath the pots. Since the pots are coco as well they are very porous and would reabsorb the water underneath possibly leading to overnute?

Second, can the coco medium be used in a net pot as part of a DWC system. Are the COGr nutrients useful for a hydro setup like DWC or are they coco only?
 
daddychrisg

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
I don't know of an easier system then a flood and drain table using net pots filled with clay pellets.. One pump, one timer, so simple...It may not be the best, but it is easy..GL
 
saine420

saine420

Well-Known Member
daddychrisg said:
I don't know of an easier system then a flood and drain table using net pots filled with clay pellets.. One pump, one timer, so simple...It may not be the best, but it is easy..GL
Click to expand...

I agree thats what I run!! Happy and easy!! gl :mrgreen:
 
potroast

potroast

Uses the Rollitup profile
What the hydro store guy is suggesting is a hydro system, using coir as a medium, and feeding with the nutes. I assume that he's talking about a drain-to-waste system, and you'll have to water at least once/day. You'll need to buy more nutes for later stages of growth.

HTH :mrgreen:
 
J

Jah191

Active Member
Right...I read in another thread that drain to waste is a typical setup for coco medium. I also read that it is particularly wasteful and that the nutrients can get dumped down the drain.

Can you explain drain to waste? Do you just dump the water that comes through the bottom of the coco-tek pots? Do you water everyday with the nutrient solution or some days with just plain water?
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
First of all coco retains water as well as any medium out there. The ideal run to waste system is supposed to be a 10% overflow. You have to check the amount of runoff and water accordingly or waste a lot of nutes. The reason for the run to waste with coco is a high concentation of salt if it wasn't processed properly. Most sources now have fixed that problem by using more coco from inland instead of close to the oceans. This is the favorite medium of the guy that owns the hydro shop I visit. He has been in this business since 1983. My first grows where with coco, still have some in coco using flood and drain. I only switched to rockwool cause the shop ran out of coco and I couldn't wait for it to come in. Last harvest was just under 500grams from 20 plants, 600 watt equivelant light. VV
 
J

Jah191

Active Member
Some definitions please:

What does 10% runoff mean? The water that comes out the bottom should be 10% ppm of nutrients?? Can you detail how a flood to waste system works with coco?

Also if I do flood and drain system instead, what type of container would the coco be put in so it doesnt break away and drain off?
 
Drizzle

Drizzle

Well-Known Member
Im kinda doing the same thing, but with 6" rockwool cubes for my first grow.

I have a 14 site hydro system but the box I will be flowering in is very small. Therefore, to keep the plants the smallest possible, I will be flowering from clones.

I am starting them off, watering the mothers by dunking the bottom third of the cube in my nutrient solution. Right now they only need water every few days, as the rockwool holds water quite well. Im sure this will increase as they get larger.
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
the 10% runoff means you get a runoff equal to 10% of the water you give them, ie 10 plants, 10 gallons of water, one gallon runs off.
For fllod and drain with coco I use one gallon pots. I start seedling or clones in rapid rooter, transplant to 20 oz styrofaom cups to allow for root development, usually about a week, and then into the one gallon pots. 24 plants would fit on the table, I'm only putting 20 on it. The draw back is fungus knats love coco so you have to be prepared for that. Neem oil, dish soap and water, mist once a week to prevent. The neem will control most other pests as well, including spider mites. Here are some pics to help explain it. VV
 

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J

Jah191

Active Member
Do you have a link to how you built your flood and drain system....or one in general could not find in growfaq
 
VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
I'll post it all tomorrow. It will take a while to do, but I do have all the information gathered for it. I'm not sure it saves any money but the size of the area dictated the size. VV
 
tmoggy

tmoggy

Member
Just about to launch into my first grow in over 10 years and in a very confined space. I am using a Drain to Waste system that utilises a refill valve and capilliary matting underneath the pots. The pots are filled with CC and the inlet valve fills a tray underneath the pots only when it has been completely emptied by the bottom feeding pots that sit on the matting.
It is super simple as the nut's are gravity fed into the res only when they have been used.
I mix up my 75 litres of nut's, balance the PH and am then free to concentrate on the plants rather than dicking about for hours each week with alternate methods (used to use aero which wasa great) that take time away from the important stuff.
How well it yields remains to be seen, of course I am not expecting the same results as I would using an aero or recirc system but the ease of use, the low height requirement and zero power required for feeding made it the only choice for me.

i'll keep ya posted on the results :peace:
 
P

poo

Active Member
hey VV, in that flood table, how high is the overflow regulator? Is it a store bought drain fitting?
The reason i ask is im wanting to know how high the clones can be above the flood level. My top hydroton doesn't seem to every get moist.
 
Professor Manali

Professor Manali

Member
VictorVIcious said:
First of all coco retains water as well as any medium out there. The ideal run to waste system is supposed to be a 10% overflow. You have to check the amount of runoff and water accordingly or waste a lot of nutes. The reason for the run to waste with coco is a high concentation of salt if it wasn't processed properly. Most sources now have fixed that problem by using more coco from inland instead of close to the oceans. This is the favorite medium of the guy that owns the hydro shop I visit. He has been in this business since 1983. My first grows where with coco, still have some in coco using flood and drain. I only switched to rockwool cause the shop ran out of coco and I couldn't wait for it to come in. Last harvest was just under 500grams from 20 plants, 600 watt equivelant light. VV
Click to expand...
I'm really interested in what you say about run to waste. Do you think it would be ok to recirculate canna coco nutes in BioBizz coco mix? If salt is the problem, then surely it would be ok to start recirculating after two weeks or so of flushing to water anyway.

Whadya think? One of the really attractive things about coco is the lack of waste since you can reuse the coco. Incidentally, anyone got any tips on getting rid of the old roots before reusing it? Would it matter that much if you didnt?

Hmm lots of questions, apologies in advance:eyesmoke:

Prof
 
Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
10% runoff is what you want if you're running soil.

Canna recommends a 30% run-off, and that the coco
be kept moist, and never allowed to dry out like you
would allow soil, this is because even when Coco is fully
saturated it still retains around 25% air, I've never over
watered in Canna coco... You just don't want to let the roots
get too dry.. Also when coco dries out the salt index goes
through the roof.
 
Professor Manali

Professor Manali

Member
tmoggy said:
Just about to launch into my first grow in over 10 years and in a very confined space. I am using a Drain to Waste system that utilises a refill valve and capilliary matting underneath the pots. The pots are filled with CC and the inlet valve fills a tray underneath the pots only when it has been completely emptied by the bottom feeding pots that sit on the matting.
It is super simple as the nut's are gravity fed into the res only when they have been used.
I mix up my 75 litres of nut's, balance the PH and am then free to concentrate on the plants rather than dicking about for hours each week with alternate methods (used to use aero which wasa great) that take time away from the important stuff.
How well it yields remains to be seen, of course I am not expecting the same results as I would using an aero or recirc system but the ease of use, the low height requirement and zero power required for feeding made it the only choice for me.

i'll keep ya posted on the results :peace:
Click to expand...
I'd really appreciate any more light you could cast on your system, sounds ideal, low height, low maintenance, low energy. Great to hear of someone with a head height problem. Could you tell us more about your solution using the run to waste with coco. I coudnt follow your drift I'm afraid. Any chance you could explain?

You have a capillary mat under the pots which feeds them? and that is fed from the reservoir?

Prof
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
Shrubs First said:
10% runoff is what you want if you're running soil.

Canna recommends a 30% run-off, and that the coco
be kept moist, and never allowed to dry out like you
would allow soil, this is because even when Coco is fully
saturated it still retains around 25% air, I've never over
watered in Canna coco... You just don't want to let the roots
get too dry.. Also when coco dries out the salt index goes
through the roof.
Click to expand...
Hi there shrubs

I'm currently growing in coco in 1gal pots and when I water my plants I give them around 3-4 litres to allow for the runoff.

does this sound ok to you

what do you mean by salt index - I been letting some of my plants dry out abit inbeetween waterings

In the pick I have a big piece of of mdf board covered in thick plastic, the end closest to the back is raised 2inches, so that when I water the runoff collects in the ditch
 

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