Check out this crop, some questions about strange leaves, photos MANY!

Hey guys I have a few questions about things I have observed happening to my friend's crop. All of the plants are 18 days into flower, it seems to me there may be some delayed flowering? They are seeds that vegged for around 6 weeks, maybe a tad more or less. Temperatures in the day stay around 75 and the night temperatures may drop as much as 20 degrees. The humidity is very low. They are on the full six nutrient set by Fox Farm (http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/soilfeed.pdf). They are watered with tap water left out over night, lowered to a PH of around 6.5. However, the color PH tester is not the most accurate tool to read. The last water not fed. The seeds are believed to be a purple strain.

They are currently under 1 1000 watt HPS
1 400 Watt HPS
But the 400 has only been present for about 2 days.


Plant A
-This plant is doing the worst of the bunch.
-It is a very dark green, many leaves curl downward.
-Some leaves are even upside down, others are "canopied" or folding

Plant B
-Plant be has much more growth, and is much larger than plant A. But as we see in plant B photo a and b that it exhibits some of the same symptoms as plant A
-the symptoms are much fewer and not uniform

Plant C
-This is another plant, it also has some strange "canopie" leaves, and some leaves curling down.
-most plants show some of all of these symptoms, but are no where near the state of plant A. There are 10 Plants

Plant D
-This plant was kept in a small pot too long and it seems to have stunted its growth. It is very yellow, this yellowing started at the top.

Plant E
-This is a photo of another plant, notice the veins on its larger leaves are very red, or purple
-Some of the stems on many of the plants are this purple color
-Purple veins were present in MOST of the plants up until today, its appear many have returned to a dark green overnight?

PASSED STRESSES:
-The lights stayed on for 24 hours, 5 days into flowering. Because of this there was no choice but to put them into 24 hours of dark to get them back onto the right schedule.

NOTE:
14/16 were females

Please help us to diagnose these problems and suggest a method remedy. Thank you

i can post more photos of anything anyone would like to see

Is this your first grow? First thing I notice is the light is to close, your big air cooled light is fine cause its cooled but the little 400 watter needs to be moved at least 18 inches from the canopy. Almost all of them look over watered. Also you need to test the pH of the soil, it should be 7.0, so water with 7.0 water till there is enough runoff threw the bottom of the pots to gather is and test it, then after you know the soil pH you can adjust your water pH to adjust the soil pH.


What feeding schedule are you using? Looks like there is also nutrient problems going on.

They were showing pre-flowers before you put them in 12/12 right?

yes, most of them showed pre-flowers before the light changed and my friend is using the fox farm feeding schedule, I posted a link. The light is higher than it was now, but there are fans you cannot see in the photos that are blowing cool air. What makes you think they are over watered?

Im going to buy a soil test kit.

This is not a first grow

Can i please get more input from other growers

IMO all seems good except the light seems to close for not being cooled as the guy above me said. get air on it to keep it low or move it up. also the non-stable temps could stress them. You should get a min/max temp gauge with a humidity tester on it. This will tell you the max temp it got to and the lowest it went. keeping your plants from 75-81 should be fine. Depending on the plant, most don't like 90+ it is bad news (unless using co2 then, turn fans off wait till 94** then turn fans on) You say "The humidity is very low" how low is low? During veg it should be 45-55% and During budding 20-30% is fine. Remember the lower the humidity is the more you have to water it. Hope this helps.

switcosky said:

yes, most of them showed pre-flowers before the light changed and my friend is using the fox farm feeding schedule, I posted a link. The light is higher than it was now, but there are fans you cannot see in the photos that are blowing cool air. What makes you think they are over watered?

Im going to buy a soil test kit.

This is not a first grow

Can i please get more input from other growers

Click to expand...

Im not sure what the humidity is, but Im guessing its low because the tent is not closed. There is no Co2 yet, but there is ample fresh air. What about those curling, gnarled leaves? Does but production seem abnormally small or slow?

Ok so we used a Rod PH test, the ones you stick in the soil, and the PH came back as 7. The soil is not super damp though, so this may throw off the reading. I will test runoff and re-administer the rod test when I do that. The temperatures turn out to be closer to 86-90 degrees, so new measures are being taken to lower the temperature. Humidity is at surprising 40%. \

Should I water with plain water and test runoff and get back to you guys? Any suggestions?

switcosky said:

Should I water with plain water and test runoff and get back to you guys?

Click to expand...

Yes, do that.
What makes me ask about possible over watering is just the droopyness in general. Have you ever added some H2O2 to your water (unless your organic)?

edit:
About the "other stresses" in your OP, where the lights stayed on, I'm not sure if that was the best thing to do. Especially so early in the transition-to-bloom stage. If I were to have a potentially catastrophic condition like that I would revert to 24/0 vegging for 2 weeks then re flower. After 5 days of 12/12 they will have just gotten use to it, then that one time of 24 hr light will most likely start the reverting to veg process anyway to you may as well stick with it.

switcosky said:

Ok so we used a Rod PH test, the ones you stick in the soil, and the PH came back as 7. The soil is not super damp though, so this may throw off the reading. I will test runoff and re-administer the rod test when I do that. The temperatures turn out to be closer to 86-90 degrees, so new measures are being taken to lower the temperature. Humidity is at surprising 40%. \

Should I water with plain water and test runoff and get back to you guys? Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

I believe in a soil grow your run off pH should be closer to 6.0. I'd try to get it close to that. However, I'm not going to say that you have a pH problem, though it could be locking out nutes... Could be many things going on here.

Have you checked out the page on this site that helps diagnose your plant problems. You should check it out. it does talk about a few of the problems you are seeing.

Good luck.

-S

Well i checked the runoff and it appeared around 6.5. How do I readjust to 6.0ish, and is this the thing to do? My friend suggests increasing Phosphorus, but im afraid the solution will prove to be the demise

Ok some new info for you, I am not in agreement with the two other gentlemen above me. Let me start out by saying I have been gardening since I was a kid working with my dad in our garden. I have grown everything from tomatoes to roses, to now MJ. I am on my second MJ grow indoor with soil (the first was hydro). Now I looked up some info in my Marijuana Horticulture Medical Grow Bible by Jorge Cervantes and this is what it says.

Humidity: High humidity causes the plants to use water and more nutrients. Growth is slow because stomata are not able to open and increase the transpiration. Low humidity stresses the plants because they use too much water.
~40% sounds fine, my grow atm stays at 45-50% tops (in veg atm)
Temperature: Both low and high temperatures slow the growth of plants, Large Fluctuations in temperatures- more then 10-20 degrees F (8-10c) causes slow growth and slows the plants process.
~You need to get your temps under ctrl, this will help, heat CAUSES plants to FOLD!

Now for the flushing of the plants, go for it. It won’t hurt them at all and it will make SURE you’re not over fertilizing, but since you’re in soil you should not have to add furts all the time unless you’re using hydro newts in soil then you gotta be careful. I water with PH corrected to 5.8-6 tap water, and only have to add newts once every month or two. (I am using Dr. Earth fertilizer)

Jorge Cervantes stats on page 225: Cannabis grows best in soil with a ph of 6.5-7.0. Within this range marijuana can properly absorb and process available nutrients most efficiently.
~The pH of your soil seems fine to me.

About the VERY Green foliage, Jorge Cervantes states: An overdose of nitrogen will cause excessively lush foliage that is soft and susceptible to stress, including insect and fungal attacks. The stems become weak and they may fold over easily. The vascular transport tissue breaks down, and water uptake is restricted. In severe cases, leaves turn a brownish-copper color, dry, and fall off. Roots develop slowly and they tend to darken and rot. Flowers are smaller and sparse. Ammonium toxicity is most common in acidic soils, while nitrate toxicity is more prevalent in alkaline soil.
~It to me looks like a N OVERDOSE but not a bad one, during veg. growth plants use a lot of N (Nitrogen) but during flowing they don't use it nearly as much. If you’re adding an N fertilizer like Blood Meal STOP.

So to me it looks like you have a heat issue, with an N overdose. Otherwise they look very healthy. They look great for being 6weeks or so imo.

Hope this helps,
DK

Oh and just to add, I see your leaf fringes are standing up, here is what Jorge says about that.

Leaf fringes that point up mean the leaf is trying to dissipate as much moisture as possible, but is unable to. This could be cause by toxic salt buildup (to much N), lack of water (N causing your plants to not be able to absorb water efficiently), or HEAT STRESS. Which you have proven to me by the temps you said you got, 95 degrees= death bro.



DK

Thanks DK, plus rep for you for your input. I too have that grow book and have been using it as much as I can. The leaves that are folding do not appear as the ones in the grow bible, they have in the past during traumatic times of humidity and heat stress, but they self corrected when temperatures were lowered. Im not sure that it is nitrogen toxicity, even though they do have leaves similar to the photo. Unless foxfarm ocean forest is nitrogen hot, I do not think it could be this; we used only big bloom organic only a few times during veg. I will water them with ph corrected water next time, and I wont add ferts for awhile; we just dont want resin production to suffer from undernutrients. If you look at page 266, P deficiency seems very similar to some of my friends leaves. The veins are often purple or red. The folded leaves are more of a canopie shape, not folded like from heat stress, they are making a bubble shape? Bud sets increased in size overnight uniformly so i suppose this is good news. Thanks for the help guys, if anyone else has input please offer it up.

Canopy" leaves? Anyone?

hi if your water is p.h of 7 before you water your plants and your ph run off is ph-7 lower your ph in your water can to 6.5 then that should bring your soil ph down 0.5 but please still check the run off
as for soil testers dont go down that road (well thats my thought) i think they are totall waste of a few quid GOOD LUCK BOYS AND HAPPY GROW

forgot to mention canna do some good single elements now phos/iron/calcium/pottasium every element you can think of they are spot on for fine tuning your plants