Cindy 99 in coco with leaf issue

Hi,

Cindy 99 in coco pro.
25 gal pot,
LED, Par meter shows between 800-1000.
Base nutrient Heavy 16.
Water is mostly distilled, mix with tap to make 4 gallons/day The water has an aerator running to add O2.
pH 5.5-6.
EC 1.8-2.4
Humidity 50% Temp 75F
Heavy 16 Bud A&B 30ML each/4 Gal
PowerSi 2ML/4 Gal
BloomBoost 2ML/4 Gal
MassBoost 4Mg/4 Gal
FinaleBoost 2.5MG/4 Gal
Ecozen 2Ml/4 Gal

Alternate days
Heavy 16 Bud A&B 30ML each/4 Gal
PowerSi 2ML/4 Gal
Sea Green 2MG/4 Gal
Ecozen 2Ml/4 Gal

I water every day with 4 Gal and runoff is around 1.5 Gal

The feed chart I have says to use more nutes than I am providing but to do so makes the EC upwards of 3.5-4 which is far too high. As I am feeding in Coco and flushing well every day I am not I feel feeding too little. I have adjusted to 1/2 the nute concentration on the feeding chart to make the EC proper.

The Coco dries quickly in the large pot so I water daily, I make sure to have enough runoff to flush salts/nutes to prevent buildup. To keep the EC low as possible while using the Aptus I use distilled water.

Being a Sativa dominant this grow has 10 weeks of bloom with the feed chart I have, it is now starting the 7th week, 3 more to go. Trichomes are all clear, no browning of any trichome yet. The plant is lollipopped.

The problem I'm asking about is browning I'm seeing on the larger fan leaves at the top, the leaves on the bottom are fine, dark green. The top leaves seem to have a loss of chlorophyll in much of the top leaves and the leaf seems more like paper in that it is easy to tear when tugged. I noticed some greater browning on one of the fan leaves today and tried to take photos of what is going on but the photos seem to make the leaf look fine. I tried flash/no flash but nothing really shows what I'm seeing. I'll post what I have and any suggestions are sure appreciated. As this grow is nearing completion I'm not terribly worried but I'm not sure what is going on so I'm asking here to learn what to be aware of.

Again, the photos make the leaf look fine but to the eye there is brown throughout the leaf. I'm not referring to the tip browning, I'm referring to brown within the leaf itself. When say "Brown at end" I'm referring to the outer 1/3 of the end.

Photos 1&2 & 3&4 are different fans showing both sides of the leaf. 3&4 had more browning than 1&2

*** EDIT: I've added better close-up photos three posts down. ***

Hope I've given you enough info to help me.

Thanks!

Megalomando said:

Hi,

Cindy 99 in coco pro.
25 gal pot,
LED, Par meter shows between 800-1000.
Base nutrient Heavy 16.
Water is mostly distilled, mix with tap to make 4 gallons/day The water has an aerator running to add O2.
pH 5.5-6.
EC 1.8-2.4
Humidity 50% Temp 75F
Heavy 16 Bud A&B 30ML each/4 Gal
PowerSi 2ML/4 Gal
BloomBoost 2ML/4 Gal
MassBoost 4Mg/4 Gal
FinaleBoost 2.5MG/4 Gal
Ecozen 2Ml/4 Gal

Alternate days
Heavy 16 Bud A&B 30ML each/4 Gal
PowerSi 2ML/4 Gal
Sea Green 2MG/4 Gal
Ecozen 2Ml/4 Gal

I water every day with 4 Gal and runoff is around 1.5 Gal

The feed chart I have says to use more nutes than I am providing but to do so makes the EC upwards of 3.5-4 which is far too high. As I am feeding in Coco and flushing well every day I am not I feel feeding too little. I have adjusted to 1/2 the nute concentration on the feeding chart to make the EC proper.

The Coco dries quickly in the large pot so I water daily, I make sure to have enough runoff to flush salts/nutes to prevent buildup. To keep the EC low as possible while using the Aptus I use distilled water.

Being a Sativa dominant this grow has 10 weeks of bloom with the feed chart I have, it is now starting the 7th week, 3 more to go. Trichomes are all clear, no browning of any trichome yet. The plant is lollipopped.

The problem I'm asking about is browning I'm seeing on the larger fan leaves at the top, the leaves on the bottom are fine, dark green. The top leaves seem to have a loss of chlorophyll in much of the top leaves and the leaf seems more like paper in that it is easy to tear when tugged. I noticed some greater browning on one of the fan leaves today and tried to take photos of what is going on but the photos seem to make the leaf look fine. I tried flash/no flash but nothing really shows what I'm seeing. I'll post what I have and any suggestions are sure appreciated. As this grow is nearing completion I'm not terribly worried but I'm not sure what is going on so I'm asking here to learn what to be aware of.

Again, the photos make the leaf look fine but to the eye there is brown throughout the leaf. I'm not referring to the tip browning, I'm referring to brown within the leaf itself. When say "Brown at end" I'm referring to the outer 1/3 of the end.

Photos 1&2 & 3&4 are different fans showing both sides of the leaf. 3&4 had more browning than 1&2

Hope I've given you enough info to help me.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Have you checked her for bugs?

Mites, maybe?

Ed & Cough, I haven't had pest issues before so I don't know what to look for other than webs which I haven't seen anywhere. I took one of the affected fans off & looked at it under the scope but saw no insects or signs of eggs or motion. I took more photographs of the leaf issue with the scope and these show the issue better than the camera I used for the other shots did.

Anything?

If it were my plant I would think calcium

Yeah Ca deficit

hi, check first if environmental adjustment helps with nutrient uptake, maybe try and increase temp to 85f and rh 60-65%
im not familiar with fertilizer product your using but perhaps consider aiming for less runoff and allow the ec in substrate to rise
25gal is a lot of substrate, what size is the plant and light?

Yeah, the damage just looked pretty speckled (similar to mite damage). Undersides look bug-free as far as I can see in the photos. I agree with the above comments, it's likely a calcium deficiency. Have you been testing the EC of your runoff?

Thank you all for your thoughts, I appreciate the help. I measured the runoff from yesterday and
EC when mixed was 2.7, runoff = 3.1
pH when mixed was 6.0, runoff = 6.2

Of the 4 gallons at feed there is around 1.5 gallons runoff.

I had been feeding at pH 6.0 but the runoff was in the upper 6's so lately I've been keeping the pH at feed around 5.5. To vary the pH range the last 2 days I've been feeding back at 6.0.

I will use more Botanical Cal Mag (this is the brand I've been using), I've been using 10ML/4 gallons, perhaps doubling that will be the thing.

As to the supplements, other than the Si & Cal Mag, they are all from Aptus and there are so many from the feeding chart that I have to add RO water to bring the EC down to proper levels, so about twice the water than they call for.

BloomBoost 2ML/4 Gal
MassBoost 4Mg/4 Gal
FinaleBoost 2.5MG/4 Gal
Ecozen 2Ml/4 Gal

25 Gallons is the size of the pot, it's filled to about 4" from the top. It's a lot of coco. Past grows were usually it's 1/2 as much but I wanted to give it the best conditions that were reasonable so gave it a try. I've bent the stems & folded them over so it fills a 4x4 tent. Plant is about 3' above the pot and is level SOG with two nettings needed to keep it all level. Lights are home-made using four 50 watt COB's each on a 3' heatsink & using 3.5K & 5K COBs. Apogee PAR meter reads now about 800, was 1000 but I lowered it with this new leaf issue. I'll raise the level back to 1000 with the added Calcium, I was concerned the LEDs might be causing burn though I never experienced that before.

Thanks all for the thoughts and I appreciate the help.

Why are you feeding such a high ec?
Healthy coco growing for me was always max 1.4ec with multiple feeds per day

OneHitDone said:

Why are you feeding such a high ec?
Healthy coco growing for me was always max 1.4ec with multiple feeds per day

Click to expand...

There u are
Where's your latest content at? I've always loved your grows . Keep me posted brother onehitdone. Thanks for always contributing in the forum dude you're an inspiration

OneHitDone said:

Why are you feeding such a high ec?
Healthy coco growing for me was always max 1.4ec with multiple feeds per day

Click to expand...

One Hit, thanks for the reply.

To answer your question; I was provided a chart (seen below) for Heavy 16 with Aptus Adjuncts. According to this chart, today in the 12th week (4 weeks left of bloom), in one gallon of water I would have:

Botanicare Cal-Mag - 3 Mg (Not on the chart but CA-MG is needed so I've added it)
Heavy 16 Bud A - 10ml
Heavy 16 Bud B - 10ml
Aptus FaSiLator - .6ML (replaced by PowerSi 2ML)
Aptus Bloomboost - 1ML
Aptus MassBoost - 2ML
Aptus FinaleBoost - 1.2ML
Aptus Ecozen - 1ML

Even using RO water with the above mix it is impossible to get an EC within acceptable range, it comes out to an EC of around four, depending on the stage of grow, so I double the amounts, mixing for two gallons. However, I cut % that by 50% by using four gallons of water, this to lower the EC. Sometimes I skip one or two of the adjuncts to get the EC below 2.

Perhaps I need to use the higher amount of Ca Mg to address the calcium issue but then this will increase the EC. This chart & ingredients is the reason why I am feeding at such a high EC. I usually get phenomenal buds but this grow now has these issues which I haven't had before.

Thoughts?

Any chance there is a "light" schedule? Like one hit said, lower feed higher frequency

Okay, since you are already feeding heavy and you have higher EC at runoff. I would highly recommend cutting the fertilizer strength. Your feeding program could be creating a build-up that is causing a lockout. I know you are watering till there is quite a lot of runoff already, but the high concentration of fertilizer could still be the culprit. If there isn't a lighter schedule then I would just go for 1/2 to 2/3 of the suggested application rates and see if that helps. Then ease up again as fit. Some strains can be more sensitive than others.

I'm sure there is a different schedule but this is the only one I have. Perhaps it is time for me to find another one for sativa dominant.

Based on the above suggestions of Ca deficient I have started feeding just the base, Si & the max suggested CA, not using the other adjuncts. That's unfortunate though as I've had amazing buds with other strains and these adjuncts in the past. As you mentioned, some strains are more sensitive than others. I last grew this 99 back in 2000 and used different nutes back then so maybe it is the strain, I have no idea.

You could use your whole fertilizer line up still. If you can't find a lighter program listed on the companies websites, just cut all your inputs equally.

Yes. Thing is, that this is what I was doing by mixing the proportions for 2 gallons but adding more RO water and cutting it by 1/2 and it was still too excessive EC & though it's a ratio, the PPM was also tested too high still. If I were to reduced the base nutrients to less than 1/2 I'm sure this will starve it of PKN and that's just as bad.

At this time it seems like just giving the CA it appears to be lacking according to the botanicare Cal-Mag I use, and giving it Si with the proper Heavy 16 nutrients does create a better albeit still high EC of 1.9 - Adding more water will provide a greater runoff but will reduce the expected base Nutes to excessively low levels, so it's a damned if I do & damned if I don't kind of thing.

Perhaps I need to look for a different feeding schedule that is known to be balanced and still give me the results I'm used to.