Clone deterioration ?

I have heard that after a while a plant won't produce the enzymes necessary for root production from stem if you keep cloning it.

I know you can take a clone, and use her as a mother but what about on down the line if you repeat?

Ex. You clone a mother and then take clones from her clone, and then take clones from that clone and so on. At what point will plants start to produce weak clones if at all?

Can anyone shed any light ????

Clones do in fact degenerate over time. But it is a very large number of clones of clones of clones that must be taken. I have no empirical data to supply, but I have sat in a classroom while this was discussed, I forget the actual mechanism of degeration, something vaguely similar to somaclonal variation I believe.

THank you for both replys! Very helpful sight !

Florida girl I like your idea but I havn't even got to the part where I actually start cultivating hahaha. Strictly research at the moment, but I think TMB is right that they will deteriorate over time so I duno if it would work. But hey theres alot of variables in cloning especially hydro, so the only way 2 kno for sure is tests !!!

If anyone could prvide me with a link to what TMB is speaking of it would be greatly appreciated I can't find anything specific on it

from what i understand if the clones do deteriorate over time, its by such a small amount that you wouldnt notice over a number of years.
its more like a theoretical amount than a tangible amount

Ive always been told that u don't want to go over three generations of cloning because the genes start getting messed up. but in experience with cloning Ive taken up to the six clone of a clone and it work just fine so.... idk

I've never seen the genetics of a plant degrade via cloning. As long as you keep your plant healthy, it sees itself being cloned as just simple pruning... I personally think the degradation is a myth, and don't really worry about it too much.

DaveTheNewbie said:

from what i understand if the clones do deteriorate over time, its by such a small amount that you wouldnt notice over a number of years.
its more like a theoretical amount than a tangible amount

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Sorry OP, I should have been more clear, I believe dave has it right, while the clones technically do 'degrade' it is more of a single locus changing from (for an easy example) Big A to small a. Small stress induced changes that most likely you'll never notice. If it happens enough you might have dominant traits turn recessive, and thus in a cloning system you would lose that trait...but, chances of that are slim. And from what I understand we're talking like...at LEAST tens of tens of generations until phenotypic changes could be seen. My boy in AZ has a lot more plant genetics under his belt than myself, and this is his opinion as well. Hope this answers it man.

a clone is a clone, and that's all there is to it. they do not degrade, the dna does not change. lol, pot isn't the only plant one can clone; there are many many plants out there that are hundreds of years old, due to propagation of cuttings (cacti come to mind here).

cloning does not alter dna.

According to Jorge Cervantes the gentics start to degrade if you keep cloning while in flower. To keep your clones from losing their genetics always clone while in the veg state, never clone during flower.

It's the reverting from veg to flower back to veg that does the damage.

well, I know of two famous examples: California orange been grown and cloned for a reputed 25+ years. From what I have read some characteristics have changed, but it is still a healthy, productive plant. Biker Bob is a famous one from Canada and I read they started to worry about declining vitality, even though it was still very potent. From what I gather, BB is on the way out so they are searching for an heir apparent. Of course this is second and third hand knowledge, some of which may be wrong.

Genetic degradation, or at least minor mutations, seem to be inherent over the long term. However the time scale seems to be quite long in general. I would just clone and not worry until you have to.