Clones, fem seeds, or regular seeds? Best strategy for a self sufficient grow

T

translatorserve

New Member
I don't want to keep buying seeds or clones and want to do it myself, what's a good strategy for a small scale hobby grower?

From my understanding so far these are my options:
  • Keep mother plants and take clones
  • Make feminized seeds from females using colloidal silver
  • Make seeds the regular way with males and females
Would all those be viable long term strategies? My number one priority is that the genetics are preserved and that I keep getting good quality bud from the strains I love.

I understand that clones will preserve genetics the best. My secondary priorities are crop yields and grow speed - I've understood that clones do not grow tap roots, does that mean the plant might not yield as much bud? There's a limit to how many mature plants I can keep in my state so that's why I care about yield.

Is making feminized seeds over and over again bad for genetics? Would making seeds the regular way be better in terms of keeping the genetics? This makes me wonder how seed banks create their seeds.

I'm grateful for any tips or pointers! Also if there's a book anyone would recommend that touches on cannabis genetics please let me know.
 
drsaltzman

drsaltzman

Well-Known Member
I like getting variety from the same brood.
I’ve taken a cross to F3, but the F1s are still the best.
The genetics stay. The different phenotypes keep it interesting.
 
jcdws602

jcdws602

Well-Known Member
If you want variation then creating your own crosses is the way to go. This will take separate space for gathering pollen and pollinating. If you clone you don't necessarily need a mother plant. You can clone prior to flower to get cuttings every cycle. They both have their pros and cons.
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
Find a good mother or two and run clones. It's quicker and easier than running seeds, let alone feminizing your own.

Clones shorten veg time, and the pheno's uniformity makes controlling the environment simple. Once you run them a couple of cycles you will know the veg and flowering times, light and nutrient demands, growth benchmarks, a rough estimate of yield, signs of health issues, ect ect.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
clones can fail to root at times, risking your perpetual cycle. If space is a limiting factor i'd learn to pollinate and make seeds. You don't have to do the whole tree either, just dusting a few branches will keep you well stocked.
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
clones can fail to root at times, risking your perpetual cycle. If space is a limiting factor i'd learn to pollinate and make seeds. You don't have to do the whole tree either, just dusting a few branches will keep you well stocked.
Click to expand...
Seeds sometimes don't pop, and the seedling stage is the most delicate period for a plant. Clone a few extra cuts and toss them once you get the number you want.
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
Finding a plant you even want as a mother is only step one
First plant seeds and become proficient at cloning then clone everything till you flower out
A mother plant can be selected after that or you can just run clone to clone :weed:
 
Hashishh

Hashishh

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
it takes a lot more space for cloning than trying to pop seeds, and i dont know his circumstances
@lusidghost
Click to expand...
Less, actually. Clones I take 6 every 4 weeks off a single mother plant. Straight to Solo cups and the strongest 3 are chosen and grown for 2 weeks under T5 or QB. It's all done in a 2x4' area. Propagation and veg.

To accomplish the same thing with seeds I'd have to pop +/-12 seeds, grow them out to sexual maturity (approx 5 weeks) which means by then I'd have to up-pot to 3 gal containers.
At that point you're going from a 2x4 to a 4x4.

Seed runs generally take up more room and more time.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Get regular seeds, silver nitrate, and sodium thiosulfate. Make all the seeds and crosses you want. Use STS to make feminized seeds if you want.

It doesn't take all that much room. I do it with a 4x4 tent for flowering and a 2x4 tent for vegging. I'll never buy seeds again unless it's some landrace I really want for preservation purposes or breeding. Every grow is a surprise as I plant something from the dozens of crosses I've made. Some nothing special but others have turned out to be exceptional.



Here's some of the Night Nurse feminized seed I recently produced. They're sold at seedbanks for $10 a seed. I gave most of them to a friend for free.




If you do decide to go the "Make your own seeds" route. Be aware that it can get to be an addiction and you may find yourself more consumed with making crosses and seeds than growing weed to smoke.

 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
Hashishh said:
Less, actually. Clones I take 6 every 4 weeks off a single mother plant. Straight to Solo cups and the strongest 3 are chosen and grown for 2 weeks under T5 or QB. It's all done in a 2x4' area. Propagation and veg.

To accomplish the same thing with seeds I'd have to pop +/-12 seeds, grow them out to sexual maturity (approx 5 weeks) which means by then I'd have to up-pot to 3 gal containers.
At that point you're going from a 2x4 to a 4x4.

Seed runs generally take up more room and more time.
Click to expand...
are you trying to tell me it takes less space to root 6 clones than to germinate 6 seeds? my good sir i must thank you. Thank you correcting me, you see...i had far too high an opinion of you prior to reading your post.
 
Hashishh

Hashishh

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
are you trying to tell me it takes less space to root 6 clones than to germinate 6 seeds? my good sir i must thank you. Thank you correcting me, you see...i had far too high an opinion of you prior to reading your post.
Click to expand...
Re-read the post, bucko.
I run both clones and seed batches, cloning saves me not only time but space as well.

Maybe one day when you figure out how to clone properly you'll understand.

Quite obviously I couldn't care less what a stranger on an internet pot forum thinks of me.
 
Jjgrow420

Jjgrow420

Well-Known Member
Yep. Always take more cuttings than you need in the case that some don't make it. Always select the cuttings that root first. Try rapid rooters or coco plugs. They are actually alot easier then Rockwool or peat pucks
It's nice to run a strain for multiple grows you can really fine tune it. have a better idea of how long it flowers what to expect etc.
 
T

testtime

Well-Known Member
Why not both?

As far as feminizing seeds you can use aspirin:

www.mjseedscanada.com

How to Feminize Seeds with Aspirin - MjSeedsCanada

Learning how to feminize seeds with aspirin has been a very interesting topic today in the cannabis world.
www.mjseedscanada.com www.mjseedscanada.com

So no need for any random non-standard in your cabinet chemical.

As far as mothers, clones, seeds. Mothers can grow huge or you could keep one in an incredible small area. And you can abuse the s*** out of it. Poor light, good, you don't want it to grow too much.

The concept of clones having no tap roots is a new one but I don't think it really matters. The bottom line is you give a plant enough time, light and training and it will yield. The key thing with mothers is you have consistent genetics.

My current grow shows two plants that are the ones that I will replicate. I started with six random clones and learned which ones were appropriate for my growing style and this dry hot environment. If you look at my pictures posted recently you might think you shouldn't take advice from me but the key issue is I wanted to find something that worked that I can grow again.

Part of my abuse of these plants is I have to do reverse night day growth and my temperatures for the plant day is up to 90 to 95 degrees and during the plant's night which is my day it's 80 degrees. These are some goddamned stressed plants.

But I found two that thrived.

I will not grow any of the others again, I don't need to, I found the winners for my environment.

Sooner or later you're going to lose a mother. The genetics will degrade, maybe in two years, maybe not in your lifetime. Either way it's great to have a pile of seeds to fall back on. So all you have to do is force banana on a lower branch and get some pollen out of that. Then you get to have fun crossing, and then coming up with stacks and stacks of seeds of random s*** that will just be fun to grow up later.

But I do recommend you do not self-pollinate the same plant. Force a couple lower branches on a couple different plants to get different pollen and then pollinate the other plants with it, else you really inviting hermaphrodites.

You can try to protect the other plants from random / self-pollination by growing those branches in plastic bags.

Yes, you can have it all. In minimal space.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
testtime said:
Why not both?

As far as feminizing seeds you can use aspirin:

www.mjseedscanada.com

How to Feminize Seeds with Aspirin - MjSeedsCanada

Learning how to feminize seeds with aspirin has been a very interesting topic today in the cannabis world.
www.mjseedscanada.com www.mjseedscanada.com

So no need for any random non-standard in your cabinet chemical.

As far as mothers, clones, seeds. Mothers can grow huge or you could keep one in an incredible small area. And you can abuse the s*** out of it. Poor light, good, you don't want it to grow too much.

The concept of clones having no tap roots is a new one but I don't think it really matters. The bottom line is you give a plant enough time, light and training and it will yield. The key thing with mothers is you have consistent genetics.

My current grow shows two plants that are the ones that I will replicate. I started with six random clones and learned which ones were appropriate for my growing style and this dry hot environment. If you look at my pictures posted recently you might think you shouldn't take advice from me but the key issue is I wanted to find something that worked that I can grow again.

Part of my abuse of these plants is I have to do reverse night day growth and my temperatures for the plant day is up to 90 to 95 degrees and during the plant's night which is my day it's 80 degrees. These are some goddamned stressed plants.

But I found two that thrived.

I will not grow any of the others again, I don't need to, I found the winners for my environment.

Sooner or later you're going to lose a mother. The genetics will degrade, maybe in two years, maybe not in your lifetime. Either way it's great to have a pile of seeds to fall back on. So all you have to do is force banana on a lower branch and get some pollen out of that. Then you get to have fun crossing, and then coming up with stacks and stacks of seeds of random s*** that will just be fun to grow up later.

But I do recommend you do not self-pollinate the same plant. Force a couple lower branches on a couple different plants to get different pollen and then pollinate the other plants with it, else you really inviting hermaphrodites.

You can try to protect the other plants from random / self-pollination by growing those branches in plastic bags.

Yes, you can have it all. In minimal space.
Click to expand...
I'll stick with using STS which has proven to be 100% reliable. At least all my reversals using STS have been successful. I didn't achieve those results when using CS and aspirin is less reliable than CS. I'd rather have a couple of easily sourced chemicals that will last indefinitely if stored properly that work every time. Most people also don't keep yucca extract in their cabinets. When I do reversals I'm usually just working with a couple of clones. One to reverse and one to pollinate. I need it to work reliably every time as I'm usually timing it to also be able to pollinate other strains I have flowering.

I have heard of using salicylic acid to reverse plants but it's reliability is not as good as using CS or STS with STS being the most reliable. I think that article is somewhat dated as it does not even mention STS which is the method used mostly today by those with experience reversing plants. The reason for the use of STS is it's reliability and the need to only apply a few times vs spraying daily as you do with CS of salicylic acid.

That article itself even recommends using CS and also states that using aspirin may or may not work. That's not good enough for me. I can't go by may or may not work. I need it to work reliably every time which is why like most people that have great success with the process are now using STS.

From that article:

"More and more experienced growers agree this technique is effective. However, there is no sufficient evidence to prove that aspirin is as effective as colloidal silver in feminizing cannabis. Unless you have been cultivating cannabis for almost a decade, it is best to skip first this method and use the rodelization or colloidal silver method instead.

Conclusion
Learning how to feminize seeds with aspirin has been a very interesting topic today in the cannabis world. If you want to give it a try, just keep in mind that it can either work or not. In many cases, it works provided that it was done by someone with enough experience in cannabis cultivation."
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
translatorserve said:
.....snip......
  • Keep mother plants and take clones
  • Make feminized seeds from females using colloidal silver
  • Make seeds the regular way with males and females
....snip.....
Click to expand...
I take clones from each successive generation. It saves me a lot of space and waste on keeping mothers.
I make fem seeds using Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulphate (I found CS to be unreliable) listen to @xtsho
I make seeds using regs as well.

This is YOUR journey, get on it! Try many different things and find what works for you in your environment.
 
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