Clones getting brown tops & soon die??

sohi

Well-Known Member
As this is my 3rd clone attempt (It shouldn't be this hard!)

I've noticed the tops get a tinge of brown on the top growing leafs, then they tend to die. What's up with that? Some of them even collapse at the stem and fall over (dead)
  • Is it because of an air bubble?
  • Not so clean cut conditions? (I do my best)
  • rockwool's been soaking for 24 hrs in PH adjusted water...
  • cuttings go in water as soon as I cut them off and trim to a 45 cut.
  • root-gel them then put them in a rockwool plug.
Anyone have any ideas on the browning?? Thanks a lot!
 

iBLaZe4tozErO

Well-Known Member
how's humidity? Is there a warming mat ? Do u mist ? What nutes u use and at what strength? Cloning is hard i ve done it a couple time and my results very. Just practice and read as much as u can on the subject
 

sohi

Well-Known Member
Oh yes sorry...
  • I use a heating pad set on a timer
  • I open it up a few 1-3 times a day
  • Use a 7" dome w/ move-able vents on top
  • no nutes
  • I've also scraped 1/2 of them, but not deep, in hopes of roots
I do have Earth Juice nutes. should I be soaking the rockwool in any?

Looking at 1 of the 2 "living" cuttings left (opened the rockwool plug) it looks as if the stem seals its self shut. As if it wants to heal the wound. I do also have a root powder I can try over the gel if that could be it.

That's the key is reading and learning... and I've been doing that for about a year and a half with about 8 grow videos, all of the FAQ, most of the posts here...
Then the trial and error part comes where you learn as you go and get your hands dirty.
That's where I'm at.

Thanks for the reply!!
 

Chiceh

Global Mod, Stoner Chic
Hmmm, what kind of light are they under? I have learned to clone successfully by doing similar to what you are doing.
I clip it from the plant, on an angle, dip it in Olivia's cloning gel, Stick it in the rock wool cube. Now this may be where you are going wrong.....Do you soak your cubes in clean ph'd water?
I do in a pail for 20 minutes. Then take the cubes out and let them drip for a few minutes, don't squeeze em too much.
Then take your cutting which has been dipped in the gel and stick it in the cube. Mist the plants with plain ph'd water. Put the dome on with the vents slightly open. Place under a grow flouro (I have a shop light on a chain). I don't use the heating pad. Keep the temps around 23 celsius.If you soaked your rockwool good, no need to re-water again. Just lift the dome off daily, fan them, mist again and put dome back on. Within 2 weeks you should see roots coming out. Good luck. :mrgreen::peace:
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sohi

Well-Known Member
I use the same light as the main plant at the moment. 175W MH.

The clone tray is about 5-1/2' away in semi shade so it's not getting fried.

The water is PH'ed to 5.5ish for 24hrs... I may have screwed up at the very start... I gave a 1/2 squeeze to the plug... That may have doomed them w/ lack of water... The plugs still had some juice left though.

gerr I'm going to run out of plugs (50) to get one clone! By the time I get one rooted the main plant will prob. be over 5' tall after flowering! HaHa. It's about 20" now.

The clones look good till about day 4-5 then the top browns ever so slightly and it seems within 2-4 days after it's game over.

Thank you for the incite and wishes of luck! :peace: :joint:
 
Work through the issues one step at a time... Let me see if I can help you.

An embolism is a bubble of air that gets trapped in the hole in the stem. This occurs when you take big clones and lay them on the counter before placing in water or a growing medium. When this results fluid flow stops, and clones die.

After taking your cuttings, immediately dip them in water or a growing medium to prevent air from getting trapped in the hollow stems. You can eliminate the threat of an embolism by taking cutting under water.

Cuttings do well in a ph range of five to six. Aeroponic clone gardens normally do best with ph of five to five and a half. Always make sure there is plenty of air in the rooting medium, this will stimulate root growth.

Do not kill clones with kindness and fertilizer. At best giving clones an excess dose of fertilizer causes rooting to be delayed. In fact, a good dose of ammonium nitrate, a common fertilizer, will stop root hairs from growing.

If an infestation occurs, apply aerosol pyrethrum. Spraying cuttings is a bad idea in general. If you must spray use natural organic sprays. Apply them when it's cool and use to a minimum.

Do not over water clones. Keep the medium evenly moist, and do not let it get soggy.

Any kind of of stress disrupts hormones and slows rapid growth.

Hope that helps
 

chronicle

Well-Known Member
maybe use a diff formula, i use liquid karma and get 100% success. i also use rockwool, not sure what the issue is but maybe try removing the heating pad. my clones do fine between 70-80 but thats just me.
 

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sohi

Well-Known Member
Thanks Kitty, it will help some people, but I've been over every post, video, faq's and faq's before I've done any of this. Now I'm in a gray area of why my death factor is so high. It has something to do with "my setup" or something.

Chronicle man great shroom shot! My formula is H2O around a PH of 6. my house drops to around 68 when no one's home, the pad gets it up to a max of 75. (IR Thermometer) I don't want the rockwool to get too cold and the timer so it's not always on. I could try it with out the pad again.

I don't want to make too many trips back to the hydro shop, it'll be my 3rd in 3 weeks... Liquid Karma and I've herd great things about Super Thrive... Should I get them some "liquid love"?

Everyone has success with H2Oooo... whine...




HaHa, just seen a anti-drug commercial "I took a naked photo because I was high" now that's funny. Check out "My new haircut" on Youtube, and that's the kinda guy it shows at the end the "guy that made her do it"
 

Chiceh

Global Mod, Stoner Chic
I woud try without the heating pad, keep in a place that the temps is stable. Fan them daily and wipe that condensation off the dome daily too. :mrgreen::peace:
 

Unique

Well-Known Member
Man i was really rough with my clones...and still not to friendly and "mothering" with them now....i have never had a clone die.

1) Cut
2) set it on the counter while opening the root powder
3) dip
4) set it in my aerogarden
5) put a little plastic dome on them
6) go back 2 weeks later and they are bigger

I do throw a VERY little amount of grow big and big bloom in there....key word is VERY little.

And dont forget to add water twice a month.
 

sohi

Well-Known Member
Fan them daily and wipe that condensation off the dome daily too. :mrgreen::peace:
Ahhh!! Good tip about the dome condensation!! What makes you say that though? I notice a funny smell under the dome, not moldy.
I chalked it up to be the gel, rockwool, plant funk...

I bet you that will do it for them... I'll take new cuttings tonight and I will name "my first born" after you.

Fresh water always brings life. Still/stale water brings pestilence and disease...
 

sohi

Well-Known Member
Unique, see that's what I'm sayin, cut, dip, done. I wish! haha. I tend to be great with plants too. Ah well it could be a "hard to clone" plant... don't know how true that is, but I've read it here and there.
 

Unique

Well-Known Member
i must admit i did spary with sparkeling water once or twice....but then the stoner in me got the best of me and it hasnt made a difference.
 

chronicle

Well-Known Member
yeah ive never had a clone die either, although ive killed a few just cus they looked like runts. i was planting clones last night and today, i have 16 in cups and i took another 10 and set them to make roots. last night though, one of the clones had a root system over a foot long - it looked like an aquatic sea creature!
 

Chiceh

Global Mod, Stoner Chic
That condensation will drip onto the clones giving them too much moisture on the leaves. You want to keep them moist, but not too wet. If you soak your rockwool good, you won't even have to water before they root. Just mist them daily, fan them and keep the dome vents slightly open. I keep my temps at around 23c/73f, no heating pad. The less you mess with them, the better they grow I find. :mrgreen::peace:

Ahhh!! Good tip about the dome condensation!! What makes you say that though? I notice a funny smell under the dome, not moldy.
I chalked it up to be the gel, rockwool, plant funk...

I bet you that will do it for them... I'll take new cuttings tonight and I will name "my first born" after you.

Fresh water always brings life. Still/stale water brings pestilence and disease...
 

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
If you have the heat pad on use a few pencils or such under the dome to make a space between to dome tray bottom and the pad. This allows heat to rise but not get the tray to warm. Make sure your soaking the clones in 5-5.5. ph water the night before then shake dry dont squeeze as you wwant the air pockets in the rockwool.I have done clones for years and and used gels and powders and after years of testing and trying I will stay with powders as they give a much better outcome . I get 70% rate with gels and about 95-98% with powders. Dont over water.The smell is just normal. The leaves will turn yeloow and brown some will die as they have no roots so they eat food stored in the leaves.Id use a florescent shop light and not the mh light. The shop light can be right on top of the clones touching as close as possible.I dont like the rockwool plugs you have I prefer the cubes wrapped in the white plastic as for some reason they seem to work alot better. Make sure you didnt clone from a plant in flower as that will decrease chances by 50% right there alone.No nutes are needed in the rockwool but I have been using a fresh 5.5. rinse with a little fish emulsion in it so the roots have immediate food when they pop to feed the young clone.
 

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sohi

Well-Known Member
Thanks so much for getting back to me on this issue... So the brown went to black and died. I was talking about the center grow tip. Ah well... So I pulled her out and looked to see how the "roots" were doing... It looked like the bottom closed up!! HA! Like a branch seals it's self, that's what the bottom did even though I cut it on a 45 and such. I now have taken clones with bigger stems. 6 of them and I'll keep posted on how they are in 2-3 days and so on. Thanks very much.
 

FaCultGen

Well-Known Member
DUDE i had this same problem, i have a humidity dome and use rockwool cubes,my temps are good...failed 3 times, finally said fuck it and went and bought some cloning powder at the store...100% success...fuck gel, i know it works great for some people but powder works great for me and the gel didn't work at all...so you should try that powder...i used "Franks" or "Schultz"...can't remember which one but it's one of those.

-Cult
 

sohi

Well-Known Member
Hell yes man! That's what I want to hear!! I did all 6 new cuttings with Schultz powder and took ones with a bit bigger stem. Awesome.
 
Wow, this forum's been around FOREVER haha. Anyways, I've been having this problem for a month, and alot of the answers on here didn't really help the original poster, as they just addressed 'clone death' in general.

This is specifically about the 'tops', or those 2 tiny new leaves, the ones you don't cut the ends off of, browning and dying.

At this stage your original 2 big leaves stay green for a while, and if you don't know about cannabis, you might still 'have hope', but, since there is no way for new growth to occur at this point, it's only a matter of time before the rest of the clone dies.

FaCultGen nailed it, without explanation of why, but I realized the issue I'm having is exactly because I'm using Wilson rooting gel.
Key fact for you all to keep in mind: rooting gel is a superior product over powder, a bit, HOWEVER, it contaminates easier than powder!
When I started cloning a few years ago, I had 95-100% success, and I only ever used Stimroot powder #1. I was having success with the gel, but I just realized the decline has been 'over time'. Each time I've cut clones, I brought them downstairs, usually 20-25, set things up like an 'assembly line', poured some Wilson rooting gel into the cap(DO NOT DO THIS lol), and well, I left the container open and exposed while I worked! One time, I left it open all night by accident, even though I closed the box flap. I now see the extreme err of my ways haha.

So, gel is technically a bit better than powder, because it's easier to get a full, lasting coat over the stem cut area. That being said, I now see it as only useful for amateurs. Every 'pro' I've seen take clones, always used the Stimroot powder. Why? because they know how to use it, and they have nearly 100% success rates, so why change it? It's not that these 'pros' are cheap either, as it's only like an extra $2 for the gel. Therefore, I'm immediately switching back to the powder, I have like 5 bottles I got free hahaha.

My advice to any general cloners who stumbled on this thread. Most of the advice folks gave is actually all useful, but no only FaCultGen addressed the specific issue. The browning of the tiny 'tops' is caused by infection at the stem's cut point. This can also happen from unsterilized scissors, so be sure to use clean scissors also! I would take most of the above advice however. As for how to use Stimroot powder(or any rooting hormone powder product), Dump some into a small plate, add just enough water to make it easier to stick to the stem. Immediately cap your Stimroot container. The powders can be contaminated, just not as quickly or easily as the gels, but better safe than sorry. Make your 45 degree angle cut(I always make a 2nd cut, not just when you cut off of the plant, this ensures that no air can be trapped, and avoids any infection that may have occurred during the time you took your cuttings from veg room to wherever you're doing your planting). Rub as much powder/water onto the stem cut area, and about 1/3 to 1/2 an inch up(roots sometimes will grow out the sides of stem also, why restrict them). plant into your medium. That's it!

If you choose to use a gel, that's fine, but that step of putting the cap back on immediately, is far more important step. Also, I now wonder if after a few months after opening a bottle of gel, if you should just toss and buy a new one. Meanwhile, the powders, if respected, will last YEARS.

Final tip: It's summer here in eastern Canada, but temps rarely go higher than 27C/80F. 80F has been the normal temperature in my cloning room though. That being said, I took 7 prime clones from my new Gelato seedling plant, and decided to use a heating pad under dome, even though temps were already high. I just noticed 6 out of 7 have rooted in my new shattering personal record of 8 days! I don't know which things worked(clearly the heating pad was main reason), but I only left the air tabs 100% closed for first 48 hours, then opened them a quarter or so. People have recommended misting clones and not watering your medium(rockwool/pucks). I've never done that, I water the medium once it is getting dry. If you use a heating pad, especially during already warm conditions, you will need to water the cubes/pucks EVERY 2 days. If you miss that by a day, they will die very quick. If you do everything I just said, you might have rooted clones in just 8 days instead of the typical 14 days.
Cheers.

EDIT: Upon reading a bit more on rooting gels, I wouldn't recommend them at all. The gel can coat the stem cutting area TOO well, and block oxygen, leading to no rooting, root rot, etc. I've never had that specific issue, although it's possible it's slowed down rooting, who knows.
 
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