Clones not genetically identical.

legallyflying · Feb 17, 2012

Found this pretty interesting. Could explain why some mothers will loose their vitality (in terms of making good clones) after a year or so; and perhaps mutation is behind why a stressed clone will never do as well as a healthy clone. At any rate, it's a good read. Pretty fascinating how different environmental conditions can cause genetic change. Not just genetic expression but actually changing the DNA itself. I read an article about genetic drift in humans based solely on environmental conditions.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110729.html

grannybonger · Feb 18, 2012

I suggested this not long ago and was called a 'lamarckian'. I still believe what you feed your plants will be transfered to the seeds. One particular one, a bagseed, needed to be watered twice a day, hence it's mother was growin in hydro. Lots to be said, look up Charles Darwyn and his suggestions are exactly this

As far as clones are concerned, the mother is a freak if she lives longer than 4mo's. Look it up, from seed to maturity is 4mo's.
I got two weeds/freaks right now that look like they could grow forever, but the male in them is just streatching the shit out of them, don't look like i'll get fuck-all for buds.

longroot · Feb 18, 2012

grannybonger said:
I suggested this not long ago and was called a 'lamarckian'. I still believe what you feed your plants will be transfered to the seeds. One particular one, a bagseed, needed to be watered twice a day, hence it's mother was growin in hydro. Lots to be said, look up Charles Darwyn and his suggestions are exactly this

As far as clones are concerned, the mother is a freak if she lives longer than 4mo's. Look it up, from seed to maturity is 4mo's.
I got two weeds/freaks right now that look like they could grow forever, but the male in them is just streatching the shit out of them, don't look like i'll get fuck-all for buds.

Granny-with all due respect. Your post is nonsense.

Ccoastal · Feb 18, 2012

i dont really see the relevance in the study.

they did not list how clones were taken, if there was a hormone used, if they were taken durring flowering, what kind of nutrients were used, the health of the mothering plants or really any specifics of the study. very unscientific.

but the results of that study can be assertained by any experienced grower. sometimes you get mutation which is called 'genetic drift' and can almost always be traced back to unhealthy cloning.

if you take a healthy clone, you get an exact copy.

if genetic drift were real, you would think that space dude (who is 30-something generations of cloning deep) would be spitting out mutated genetics... but he doesnt.

Ccoastal

dannyboy602 · Feb 18, 2012

legallyflying said:
Found this pretty interesting. Could explain why some mothers will loose their vitality (in terms of making good clones) after a year or so; and perhaps mutation is behind why a stressed clone will never do as well as a healthy clone. At any rate, it's a good read. Pretty fascinating how different environmental conditions can cause genetic change. Not just genetic expression but actually changing the DNA itself. I read an article about genetic drift in humans based solely on environmental conditions.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110729.html

mother nature's way of ensuring diversity? idk. but a good read. you were right about that.

unohu69 · Feb 18, 2012

I believe clones can have a genetic mutation, iv seen it.

But the real reason im posting is Dannyboy, thats a great HB quote, what thread is that in?

legallyflying · Feb 19, 2012

I'm trying to track down the actual journal article.. Not that it woul e any further enlightening or anything. I'm a pretty smart guy but when you start reading about genetic research and procedures you get lost pretty quickly. My take away is that because there is abiously pathways for genetic mutation and and phenotype shifts, it's important to keep the clone procedure as stress free as possible. This isn't really something I paid any attention to before, I pretty much just took cuts when I wanted to

Harrekin · Feb 19, 2012

Clones have a "genetic framework" that you can work with, enviroment has a massive effect on how the plant "looks" and "is", they can turn out to be all identical under identical conditions, but even identical twins in real life don't grow to look/"be" exactly the same (even tho genetically identical) if they were raised under differet conditions.

colonuggs · Feb 19, 2012

ive cloned the same plant 5 times a year for the past 25 years.... always taking my clones right at the begining of onset....never keeping a mom

The strain is still alive and well and is as killer as it always has been...looks smells tastes the same now as it did 25 yrs ago

Ccoastal · Feb 19, 2012

See? Healthy cloning practices and elimination of 'drift' go hand in hand. Ccoastal

TheGreenThumber · Feb 20, 2012

I do not think you understand what the word 'clone' means. Nor do you understand how genetics work. Clone clones of clones that were from clones, the genetics won't go bad.

Powder Kutz · Feb 20, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection

pharmacoping · Mar 16, 2012

TheGreenThumber said:
I do not think you understand what the word 'clone' means. Nor do you understand how genetics work. Clone clones of clones that were from clones, the genetics won't go bad.

The genetics can certainaly be mutated, and are, with every cloning. This does not mean you will notice differences, but bacteria, virus', and pathogens are everywhere and will and do infect/multiply within the dna of your plant. Unless you have brought a plant to undifferentiated material, purified, then grown out, most are infected. These infections can be cultured in vitro, and seen clearly.

I purposely use a bacterial infection process to genetically mutate organisms daily. I keep monther plant in vitro for years and years, and clones from the undifferentiated material is much different than a traditional clone cutting from an infected plant.

redzi · Mar 16, 2012

colonuggs said:
ive cloned the same plant 5 times a year for the past 25 years.... always taking my clones right at the begining of onset....never keeping a mom

The strain is still alive and well and is as killer as it always has been...looks smells tastes the same now as it did 25 yrs ago

Your full of shit....25 years, 25X5 ...125 copies of a copy..... got any fish stories...does mommy know you stayed up all night?

legallyflying · Mar 16, 2012

I only have one thing to say to that.... Http:/jatruth.drugs.html

mccumcumber · Mar 16, 2012

the mother is a freak if she lives longer than 4mo's. Look it up, from seed to maturity is 4mo's.

What? My outdoor goes for 5 months, I start around 4/20, end late September...
Furthermore, lots of people keep mothers for over a few years. Longest I've done it was one year, but that's because I got into "breeding." I just like starting from seed better. This guy keeps his mums for around 15 years. http://www.cannabase.com/cl/pages/mums/mums.html

Edit: Onto the topic, I really found that article interesting, thanks for the post!

TheCannabist · Mar 16, 2012

redzi said:
Your full of shit....25 years, 25X5 ...125 copies of a copy..... got any fish stories...does mommy know you stayed up all night?

Why's he full of shit? I'm pretty interested in this, keeping a mother is inconvenient if your short on space.

CaptainTripps · Mar 16, 2012

redzi said:
Your full of shit....25 years, 25X5 ...125 copies of a copy..... got any fish stories...does mommy know you stayed up all night?

Clones are exact copies, and if you do it right they do not degrade, 125 copes or 1000 its still gonna be viable, same clone only strains are still around that were around from the 70s or 80s...

dankerous · Mar 16, 2012

A lot of this post makes me laugh,a lot of clone only strains have existed for 20 plus years,cheese is a 1988 skunk#1 pheno(over 23 years old no real mum left as she was cut to death),not mutant,as there are still phenos similar if you grow out lots of skunk#1,my mate found a cheese pheno it was just abit more on the bin juice/rotting fruit side,but had the same cheese funk, its all down to environment,just like plants can change sex they can also mutate depending on environmental factors,its called evolving and trying to keep the species going,hence why most over flowered plants will put out bananas if there is no male,

cues · Mar 16, 2012

Plants with variegated leaves (not our weed plants) are, mostly cloned from plants that have caught viruses, which are passed on through cloning. The most well known being Holly and Ivy. The mosaic virus is named because of the interesting pattern. It's interesting to note that such plants usually have to be constantly pruned to keep their colouring, especially when well looked after. This is obviously due to their recovery which we choose to suppress. On such plants it's also interesting to note how fast this 'recovered growth' is compared to the 'infected' growth.
Obviously, we do not get this situation with plants grown for maximum yield as we replace them as soon as he problem is recognised.

Clones not genetically identical.

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